45 Leading at 2,000 fps

[jonp]

At the gun show yesterday I ran across a guy selling powder, reloading stuff, etc.. he had a box of odds and ends he was selling and said that it was his own extra stuff.
It included a dozen tubes of lube, 4 Saeco Molds (2 9mm and 2 45 two hole) with 2 sets of handles, ladle, ingot molds and various other parts. Looked like about everything except a pot. He wanted $300 for it all and I asked him a couple of questions.

The thing that got me was when I asked him about loading 45 he said he loaded them for a 45lc which I mentioned I had. I asked him what he used and he said straight wheel weights up to 2,000 fps with no gas checks. I asked him about leading and he said none at all.

I was sure I read on here that going that fast without gas checks would cause leading but maybe I'm wrong. What does everybody think?

[btroj]

2 K with no check and no leading? Not saying it can't be done but everything must line p just right for it to happen.

I can get 1600 in a 45-70 with plain base and no leading. Wouldn't even consider trying for 2000 without a check.

First big lesson to learn about shooting cast- don't believe all the garbage people tell you.

[mdi]

I wonder what gun he was shooting to get 2,000 fps from a 45 Colt?

[rintinglen]

And my 68 volkswagen gets 100 mpg at freeway speeds... I calling shennanigans on that fellow.

I generally don't call anyone a liar unless my nose is within reach of his fist. However, I have cast over two hundred thousand cast boolits in the last forty years and sent a fair few down range. I have never managed to get past 1500 fps without some leading, except for my 45/70 which will, if all the cards are right, go maybe another 100 fps faster. I suppose that you might be able to hit 2000 fps in a 45 Long Colt with a 24 inch barrel rifle, a ruger-only load, and a light boolit, but I doubt it. IME, what your gunshow commando was telling you was nonsense.

However, for these times, that sounds like a fair price for 4 molds in desireable calibers--those handles (if they are SAECO) alone are worth 20-25 bucks each. They are 45.99 new at Midway. And the molds are worth 65-80 bucks apeice these days. I'd buy his stuff, not his story.

[jonp]

I have been shooting boolits for a little while but have yet to cast my own as I don't have the space yet. I have read a little on this sight about it as I plan on doing it and that is why my eyebrows went up when he told me this. What little I know so far which led to the ww comment was I asked him if he added tin to it or something and "nope, straight ww". Yeah.....mosey off without a buy.....

[45 2.1]

One should always remember that while your learning, you will hear many things.... some or most of which may or may not be true. When you do learn how to do some things, you might ask some MORE questions to find out how people do some of the things they do (that you think are not possible)..... and not assume that you know more than they do about it.

[MtGun44]

My view is that just because I can't do it, doesn't mean that somebody
doesn't have a way. Pull up a chair and ask a few polite questions.
Pretty soon you'll know whether to stay and learn or leave as soon
as you can.

Personally, I can drive a pistol boolit with a plain base and pretty soft
alloy as fast as can be done with no leading and good accy. Many will
say it can't be done, but heck that is probably max of 1500 fps, if that.

Never tried to push a plain based rifle boolit that fast, so really have no
personal baseline to comment from.

Bill

[jonp]

hmmm...good advice. I just got a bad vibe like a car salesman from him. I have read a lot on this and other sights and never have seen someone mention that they could do what he just said. More like he sized me up as someone he could put something over on. I immediately shut off at that point. I will listen to anyone that knows more on a subject than I do but they have to know more than I do not think they know more than I do.
I dont know anything about brain surgery but if a surgeon walked into an operating room carrying a Husqvarna I would stop the guy right there.

[Bigslug]

I wonder what gun he was shooting to get 2,000 fps from a 45 Colt?

+1. Fastest thing I can find for the .460S&W XVR is a little 200 grainer at about 2300 - this being a max load in a case holding about five times the powder of the .45C.

[rmatchell]

I have to agree, when I started to learn I could find so many people who wanted to give me information on cast boolits. Most of which I now know was wrong, but taking it all in put me on the right path. When I started lurking on this site I was able to see what worked well for others and apply that. I have yet to push anything faster than 1200fps and don't feel the need yet, until I feel the need to feed the AR's cast. I feel like I know just enough to get by for now, but try to keep learning as much as I can take in.

[MT Chambers]

I think I'd buy the gear, but not the BS.

[45 2.1]

I wonder what gun he was shooting to get 2,000 fps from a 45 Colt?


+1. Fastest thing I can find for the .460S&W XVR is a little 200 grainer at about 2300 - this being a max load in a case holding about five times the powder of the .45C.

You need to look at some of the poly ball loads tried in the past..... of course a cavernous HP (that is basically a shell) with a stiff wad underneath can be driven at obscene velocities also.

[jonp]

I think I'd buy the gear, but not the BS.

Do you think that was a good buy? I was going to do it and save it for later but wasn't sure and so didn't want to get had on the price.

[Marlin Junky]

...What does everybody think?

I think gunshows in ceratin areas of the country are locations where BS artists congregate to sell unsuspecting greenhorns all their unwanted ****. That said, keep your eyes open and your ears and mouth shut and you might find an occasional bargain while killing time at a gunshow. If the gear he was selling was in good shape, the $300.00 price tag was fine.

MJ

[jonp]

Dang, I knew it. The molds were in great shape with no dents, dings or scratches. The handles were new. Oh well! If you don't know what you are really looking at then buying stuff is a crapshoot.

[Marlin Junky]

Dang, I knew it. The molds were in great shape with no dents, dings or scratches. The handles were new. Oh well! If you don't know what you are really looking at then buying stuff is a crapshoot.

Well, if you know what you need, check prices online (e.g., Midway) before going to the gunshows. The molds and handles (SAECO handles) may have very well been worth 3 clams by themselves (I dunno, I wasn't there).

MJ

[runfiverun]

I have gotten pretty close to 1700 with a 250 gr boolit in the 45 colt.
I was using 2400 powder and not at the top of that.
I could have gone to a couple of slower powders extended the boolit out of the case some, I might maybe have gotten close to 2-k.
the curved metal butt plate and accuracy pretty much dictated that I stop where I was. [combined with some laziness]
don't assume he was using a revolver.

[Larry D.]

Dang, I knew it. The molds were in great shape with no dents, dings or scratches. The handles were new. Oh well! If you don't know what you are really looking at then buying stuff is a crapshoot.

I find that waving cash generally creates a better price, the worst he can do is say no to a low ball offer.

[jonp]

I have gotten pretty close to 1700 with a 250 gr boolit in the 45 colt.
I was using 2400 powder and not at the top of that.
I could have gone to a couple of slower powders extended the boolit out of the case some, I might maybe have gotten close to 2-k.
the curved metal butt plate and accuracy pretty much dictated that I stop where I was. [combined with some laziness]
don't assume he was using a revolver.
No, when I saw the 45 mold I said I had a 45lc Blackhawk and he said he did too and then the conversation about ww, tin and the 2,000 followed. He did not say a Blackhawk that I remember, though. I just assumed when he said he did too that was what he meant but he could have meant a T/C 45lc I guess. Didn't occur to me at the time.

[runfiverun]

i dunno about 2-k in a revolver with a 45 colt.
even with a 10" barrel it would be a dang impressive fireball, i can't really think of anything that would get you there velocity wise.

[ddixie884]

Maybe he said he had cast for a Blackhawk, then you asked how fast without a gas check. He might have said he had pushed a plain base up to 2000fps. He might not have meant it was in a .45Colt. It could have been a bottlenecked rifle ctg. I wasn't there, I'm just saying............

[mdi]

I usually listen to everybody. Now, how much passes the B.S. filter is another story. Even if you don't know much about a subject use common sense to sniff out the "extreme exaggerations", and mebbe retain the info until it can be verified, then kept or filed in the "junk, urban myth, old wives' tales" file...

[45 2.1]

Even if you don't know much about a subject use common sense to sniff out the "extreme exaggerations", and mebbe retain the info until it can be verified, then kept or filed in the "junk, urban myth, old wives' tales" file...

At one time, several hundred years ago, the earth was considered to be flat.... by almost everyone. We all know that turned out to be wrong now. There are a lot of things that are possible, if you learn how, that everybody considers "extreme exaggerations" now. It takes a long time for the stubborn to learn anything.

[NVScouter]

I got a couple 200g TCs up to around 1900fps in my 45LC rifle. Didnt hit much though............

That being said my T/C in 357 Herrett will push a 125g plainbase at 2000fps with no leading. 10" barrel plenty of lube for that length but I'd think by 16"-24" that lube would be long gone.

[jonp]

Maybe he said he had cast for a Blackhawk, then you asked how fast without a gas check. He might have said he had pushed a plain base up to 2000fps. He might not have meant it was in a .45Colt. It could have been a bottlenecked rifle ctg. I wasn't there, I'm just saying............
I noticed the 45cal SAECO die and it was in reference to that when I said I had a Blackhawk. He said " me too" but he might have been talking about a rifle in 45lc. I don't know but I do not think that was the case.

I am curious if anyone can think of a powder/boolit combo using straight ww that could get to 2,000fps in a Blackhawk 45lc within safe pressure. I have no interest in the recoil and fireball but I can't find anything that would do it let alone without leading.

[CGT80]

I use 45.0 grains of win 296 under a 240 hornady xtp mag J word in my 460 magnum and I only get 1930 fps from the Smith 460 XVR.

I don't see how you could get enough powder in a 45 colt case to do that. The pressures of the 460 are also up around 50,000 + psi, and they use large rifle primers. White Label lube says they push cast rifle boolits to 2700 fps, but I am pretty sure that is gas checked and probably with a harder alloy.

I run a 270 grain MP 270 SAA hollow point bullet, from ww, with C-red from white label at 1,000 fps average for a light 460 load. I pushed a few up to 1300-1400 fps, but I didn't want to find out how hard it is to clean lead out of that barrel. My mid 460 load is a 240-250 j word at 1400 fps. I'll save the cast boolits for the slow stuff, especially until I get better at casting.