Remington Rolling Block 7X57

[walkswithsticks]

This winter I picked up a smokeless action Remington Rolling Block chambered in 7X57. I found a Lee 130 gr mold, a set of Lee dies, and a bag of PRVI brass. Not really happy with the mold, but I figured that I better get what was available. Keeping my eyes out for a Lyman 160 gr +/-

I never see any posts discussing shooting these. Pretty slim pickings in the search feature as well. I did find one nice thread about narrowing the trigger and main springs to lighten the trigger pull.

Does anyone have any experience with these who would be willing to share some advice?

Bill

[Lefty SRH]

I really enjoy that 7x57 (120+ yr old elephant cartridge). I'd like to see the rifle you picked up. Can you post a pick? I have three 7x57's rifles, 2 mil-surps and a Ruger No.1 RSI. My Brazilian mil-surp is fun to shoot but my No.1 is my sweetheart.

[PS Paul]

7x57 is about my FAVORITE rifle cartridge of all time! So much neat history and versatility, it is a true "reloader's cartridge". I do believe most manufacturers load their factory ammo within the pressure limits of those rolling blocks. 42,000 PSI IIRC, BUT don't take my word for it. I have been wrong before and I do NOT have the manual in front of me right now.

I think a 175 gr. boolit is probably optimum for that rifle, but if all ya got is the 130 gr. mold, by God, I would shoot it and have a blast! I cannot speak for the Prvi loads though, but I hear they tend to be on the "warm" side. So if it were ME, I would DEFINITELY be lookin' for pressure info on those loads BEFORE shootin' it in yer old rolling block.

Good score! http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-624979.html found this link with some discussion about the gun and load combination. Note the discussion regarding "excessive headspace". Had that same issue in an old '95 Chileno, but my Uncle/gunsmith fixed that for me and it shoots sweet! still keep 'er loaded down to about 42,000 or so anyway with jacketed. REALLY enjoy shooting cast in it, though.....

[pietro]

.

There's a pretty good discussion about shooting, etc, the 1902 Remington 7x57 Rolling Blocks, over on the Remington Society's forum, that's well worth a read:

http://www.remingtonsociety.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4500



.

[tbierley]

I have a 1902 Remington Rolling Block and my looks like it was pulled behind a donkey cart for miles. But it shoots very good. You need to fire form the brass because these rifles always have head space problems and the chamber is over sized. I cut down 30/06 brass and re size with the 7x57 die. I try to keep the pressures at 30/30 levels. The rolling block are strong be they do not handle gas very good. There are good threads on this rifle. Please post a pics

[broomhandle]

Hi Fellows,

I too have a old 1902/1910 rolling block! Been holding back on it for a while, because of the ammo issue.
The bore had cobwebs & a dead bug in it, when I bought it of a older shooter (80+) I had met at the range!

It took a little while to clean all the years of "stuff" out of the barrel & with the help of a Outers electronic bore cleaner, the bore looks quite good.

I ordered a few needed parts from a fellow that sells original & repro R B parts on the net. He was a big help to me.
http://www.rollingblockparts.com/

I discovered, it's a later 1910 model of the improved 1902 rifle. I found a proper short Remington R B bayonet for it in Memphis TN. about two weeks ago... now I want to shoot the darn thing!
The replacment parts should be here this coming week :<)

What is the best method to fireform 7 mm cases to fit our rifles? Best loads?

Thanks for your help in advance,

Best, broomhandle

[leadman]

These guns were made before SAAMI was formed so do not conform to their specs. The cartridge used in these was slightly longer so the fireforming is a good idea.
One easy method is to use a fast powder like Unique and start around 8 to 10 grains, fill the rest of the case with Cream of Wheat cereal and melt some candle wax over the case end to hold the cereal in. Bullet lube works also or beeswax.
You may have to up the charge to get full forming with one shot so only load a couple cartridges to try first. If you are in a place where you can point the muzzle almost straight up this helps. If you can't seem to get full forming with a reasonable amount of powder rub a small amount of case lube over the outside of the case. Be sure to clean the barrel and chamber before firing live ammo.

[broomhandle]

Hi Leadman,

I'll give it a try in the next few days!
I'm guessing, just dripping some candle wax on to the top of the case, is enough - about a 1/16 of a inch deep or should it be more? Should it fill most of the neck? I have not found a source that really spells it out to a newbie fireformer.

By the way, do you think that I /we would get the same results with a lead bullet seated to just touching the lands with the same 8 to 10 grains of powder. That load is the so called "universial" cast bullet load & low pressure too.

I know nothing about fireforming, except what I have seen on the web. And like anything else, there can be more then one way to get good results.
My thought is the cream of wheat would develop less force to form the case. BUT I have no idea if the bullet method is over kill!
Because we are told not to seat bullets in the rifling because it increases pressure.

Thanks for any & all help,
broomhandle

[broomhandle]

Hi Walkswithsticks,

Sorry if it seems like I tried to hijack your post. It was not my intent.

Best to all, broom

[Green Lizzard]

walkswithsticks try putting a small washer under the trigger return spring, mine went from 12 lbs to 6 lbs

[PS Paul]

Still no photos? anyone? Beuhler? he he

[walkswithsticks]

I will attempt pics tomorrow
Hijack all you want. It is good info.

[tbierley]

On the trigger pull I made a trigger return spring out a small hose clamp.My trigger pull is now about 4lbs.

[broomhandle]

Hi Guys,

I got the parts I needed today from " Rolling Block Parts" [smilie=w:I ordered the lighter trigger spring. It is a wire replacment for the old flat leaf spring. It's nicly made. But at first glance over priced. I guess I should have looked at a parts diagram or take the action apart first! :? The quality of the parts are well done. So I'm OK with it.
This trigger spring would work well on a M/N rifle & most like likely clean up that style trigger too.

Best to all,
broom

[broomhandle]

Hi Fellows,

I read some reports of damage to the barrel with bottle neck cases, if the COW forms a plug in the barrel or some type of pressure spike.

I found another method to fireform the cases! This one seems to make sence to me.
I run the sizing stem from a 30 cal into the 7mm cases. This enlarges the neck. Then I run the case back into the 7 mm die until it just fits the chamber. This makes a false neck bump. Which allows the case to blow out the small amount it needs to fit the oversize chamber. I'll give it a try soon!

Thanks for the reply,
broomhandle

[bkbville]

I have an Uruguay contract Cavalry carbine. It's almost "cute" - short with a saddle ring.

It shoots high - I end up using a "carcano" hold (i.e. the top of the front sight in the bottom of the V) and that is pretty close to on at 50yds.

The chamber is definitely longer than say a Spanish Mauser.

I had issues fire-forming in the roller - it opened the necks so wide they would not fit in the Lee neck-size collet die, so I had to run them at least partial through the FL die. I'm not sure if this is common.

Even so fire-formed, I find the primers like to back-out a bit.

I've been using the Lee 130 and sizer with success. I don't have high expectations because of the short barrel on this.

[broomhandle]

Hi Guys,

Repost, first try vanished!:?

Fooled with the 30 cal expander & necking back to 7mm for the false shoulder. Not the best results with the four cases I made up! Three did not form on center & look ugly! On my R.B. chamber the false step is about 1/16 longer to fit the chamber correctly.
I called RCBS & the Service Tech said I'm better off just shooting a long seated lead bullet to the lands With a light load to form it correctly. I'll give that a go tomorrow.

Best to all,
broom

[leadman]

I have not had or heard of any problems using COW and a wax plug in the neck. I use 20 grs of Unique and fill the rest of my 7mm Rem Mag case with the Cream of Wheat and seal the case mouth with wax. Forms the cases perfectly with no problems. I would not use a bullet or boolit with the fast powder and COW.
I also use this method to form cases for my 8X 56R Danish rolling block from 45-70.

[broomhandle]

I have not had or heard of any problems using COW and a wax plug in the neck. I use 20 grs of Unique and fill the rest of my 7mm Rem Mag case with the Cream of Wheat and seal the case mouth with wax. Forms the cases perfectly with no problems. I would not use a bullet or boolit with the fast powder and COW.
I also use this method to form cases for my 8X 56R Danish rolling block from 45-70.

Hi Leadman,

20 grains of Unique in a old & weak 7 mm Mauser rolling block action, seems like it might be a too powerful for the action.
In a 7 MM Mag bolt action it's not a factor.

As for the COW the reports mention, it's not a problem with straight cases, for what ever reason the ringing problem comes only with bottle neck cases.
I'm a very careful guy when it comes to old guns & fireforming cases .. because I simply have no clue as to what is safe.

All the best & thanks for your input,
broomhandle

[PS Paul]

Boy, this has turned into a VERY interesting AND informative thread! I've learned a few things myself and am anxious to see how things work out. As posted earlier, the 7x57 is my all-time favorite (followed closely by 6.5x55) and I appreciate the info guys are sharing.......

[broomhandle]

Hi PS Paul,

The guys here have helped me about 10 times in the past years! With various reloading questions & three or four old firearms!

I have another 7 mm thread going here, as we know some guys don't read all the sections. One of the fellows mentioned expanding the neck to 30 cal. & reforming it back with the 7 mm fl die. This forms a "false neck or shoulder step" to hold the case from expanding wrong.

I made four cases yesterday! Three came out off center! Truly ugly! I neglected to anneal the necks & did not use the proper long tapered style sizing button. I'm a real newbie when we get into this stuff.
I'm sure tomorrows effort wil be better! Live & learn no need to reinvent the wheel. Someone went down this path before us!

Best to all & THANKS,
broomhandle

[bkbville]

This stirs my mind - I seem to recall Frank DeHaas writing about the 7mm RB citing the exact concerns of headspace because these are pre SAAMI:

He recommended converting from 7x57 to 7x57R - which would just require a slight modification to the extractor, and some way to add the rim to the chamber (I'm not sure how that is done as I'm not sure a 7x57 "R" reamer is even made.) I guess this the "R" is more common in Europe.

The concern is more headspace than metallurgy.

[broomhandle]

Hi bkville,

I have a hard enough time locating regular 7 mm Mauser cases now. I have a slightly eazier time locating once fired 308 military cases now!
I don't think locating 7 mm rimmed cases would be a eazy task. I will look into it.

The other question is.... Do I want to alter a nice old rifle that is a collector's item & is at least 103 years old!

Best to you ,
broomhandle