View Full Version : Best way to ingot this up for sale?
Ok so i have a deal with my local scrap yard now and will have more lead than i can store for very long. so i have a couple questions for you, is it best to ingot only like materials or to go ahead and make a good alloy? i am getting soww's, coww, plumbers, roofing, cable sheathing, and battery terminals just the side attached to the car not the guts, fishing sinkers along with some other forms too. can anyone help me out with identifying some of the pieces that arent recognizeable to me? I will post pics in a few mins after i put them on the computer. they have two buckets of the noodle looking masses i didnt get because i didnt know what they were if they are good to use i will pick them up tomorrow. if anyone could tell me anything i would appreciate it greatly. i plan on keeping about half and posting the other half on here so help me offer the board the best lead i possibly can please.
If you're going to sell it here I would sort it and box it as-it without melting it. People here usually like to do their own alloying and buying in original form provides some assurance that what they're buying is what you say it is. It also saves you the time, trouble, and expense of melting it all. That means a lower price which is good since most of us here are cheap-skates.
these two are the noodle looking stuff i was talking about. its soft like lead but im just not sure.
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g390/Bhop84/idontknow014_zps2c925b7e.jpg (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/Bhop84/media/idontknow014_zps2c925b7e.jpg.html)
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g390/Bhop84/idontknow015_zpsa675a1c5.jpg (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/Bhop84/media/idontknow015_zpsa675a1c5.jpg.html)
there are a few sinkers and throw net weights, some cable sheathing, im not real sure what kind of lead the blocks are either.
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g390/Bhop84/idontknow002_zps2dc5bfb8.jpg (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/Bhop84/media/idontknow002_zps2dc5bfb8.jpg.html)
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g390/Bhop84/idontknow013_zpse63eb4f9.jpg (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/Bhop84/media/idontknow013_zpse63eb4f9.jpg.html)
one last question, how come some of the lead looks rusty and the others arent that way?
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g390/Bhop84/idontknow008_zpsd9ee7f56.jpg (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/Bhop84/media/idontknow008_zpsd9ee7f56.jpg.html)
well it would be easier for me to ship ingots i think, what would you guys think if i was to take pictures of the seperated groups before smelting? I am going to keep half for myself and was just going to ingot everything in each group and stamp or mark them for future refernce. but if someone would prefer raw material i would do it that way too, what is the price difference on say 1lb of roofing sheet lead in ingots vs same shipped raw? this is my first trip but will go back tomorrow (i showed up right before closing today) to get some more.
The "noodle's" look to me like dripping's from a red shop.
Dusty Bannister
05-04-2013, 08:22 AM
If you're going to sell it here I would sort it and box it as-it without melting it. People here usually like to do their own alloying and buying in original form provides some assurance that what they're buying is what you say it is. It also saves you the time, trouble, and expense of melting it all. That means a lower price which is good since most of us here are cheap-skates.
===============
I have shipped a few boxes of casting alloy or soft lead scrap and find that small or pointed objects might punch out of a box. If I am buying from a scrap yard, I like to see the original form. Buying from a forum member, safe packing should probably be a consideration. The buyer will probably expect the seller to make good for anything that escapes the box while it is in the mail system. Blunt ended ingots will probably ship better than rough pointed scrap pieces. You might save some time by not smelting, that would end up being used in extra strong packing to assure contents arriving at the destination. Dusty
ubetcha
05-04-2013, 08:41 AM
The noodles look like they are from old septic system cast pipe joints.I believe the when the pipes were joined together,it was packed with a fiberous compound known as oakum and then had lead poured into the joint to seal it. That's were the need for the plumbers "bomb" as its called, was used to melt the lead.
ok so im guessing i need to go pick that up. would that be the same as the lead pipe and the plumbing fittings or should i seperate it by its self? Would anyone be interested in any of the groups ive identified previously (i know yes to ww's)? im not trying to get rich or do this for free but i want to help fellow casters get the best lead i can get
myg30
05-04-2013, 12:23 PM
Id check the sinkers, ya never know what they were made from. You can sell as is for less or smelt up a mix and sell as ingots. The lead pipe is pure and if you beat it to fit into F/R bx's you will find several that want it. The less time you spend the cheeper you can sell it right ?
Im sure how ever you do it, it will sell. WW's are going fast and lead prices are not going down much.
Mike
runfiverun
05-04-2013, 12:26 PM
he means radiator not red.
the problem here is if they are radiator drippings they are 40 to 60% tin.
if they are plumbers lead they are lead.
the sinkers are the same way some of them are soft lead.
some look home made and can be anything.
the federated is body lead and can have 10% to 30% tin or not.
cable sheathing comes as pure lead or with 3-5% antimony.
as it is swaged into shape you can't really tell, if you cast it you have a definite difference in hardness.
he means radiator not red.
the problem here is if they are radiator drippings they are 40 to 60% tin.
if they are plumbers lead they are lead.
the sinkers are the same way some of them are soft lead.
some look home made and can be anything.
the federated is body lead and can have 10% to 30% tin or not.
cable sheathing comes as pure lead or with 3-5% antimony.
as it is swaged into shape you can't really tell, if you cast it you have a definite difference in hardness.
Ok so how would you group it together? Smelt each different item into ingots and group all ingots of each type together or box up a variety of the different groups?
Anybody have any idea about those 2 blocks?
KYCaster
05-04-2013, 07:59 PM
Just my own humble opinion.......but if I can't touch it, hold it and test it myself I surely don't want to pay to have it shipped to me without a reasonable assurance of what's in it. The only pieces you show that I would be interested in are the solder and the cable sheath. The rest of it could be ANYTHING.
The "noodles" are just globs that dripped from something being melted. I've seen similar globs from lead, zinc and aluminum.
The sinkers could be anything from pure lead to pure zinc. Some areas have banned lead sinkers.
The rust color is exactly what it looks like......rust. It was stored in wet conditions in a steel container or with other items made of steel.
I know it sounds kind of harsh, but buying it for your own use is one thing......trying to sell it to somebody else is a whole nuther can-o-worms.
Good luck.
Jerry
Just my own humble opinion.......but if I can't touch it, hold it and test it myself I surely don't want to pay to have it shipped to me without a reasonable assurance of what's in it. The only pieces you show that I would be interested in are the solder and the cable sheath. The rest of it could be ANYTHING.
The "noodles" are just globs that dripped from something being melted. I've seen similar globs from lead, zinc and aluminum.
The sinkers could be anything from pure lead to pure zinc. Some areas have banned lead sinkers.
The rust color is exactly what it looks like......rust. It was stored in wet conditions in a steel container or with other items made of steel.
I know it sounds kind of harsh, but buying it for your own use is one thing......trying to sell it to somebody else is a whole nuther can-o-worms.
Good luck.
Jerry
well jerry thats why i started this thread so i could hopefully get some advice on how i can verify what it is exactly. we defineatly allow lead sinkers around here. i know they were stored in a steel rusted container i pulled them out of it but i was trying to make sure that was the only reason they had the rust on them. if i find anything that isnt ok to cast with i would never offer it up for sale here or anywhere. once again the reason for this thread is to seek out the knowledge of the more experienced casters here so they might could enlighten me on what to look for or how to check to make sure that if i sold it that it was legit. i would love to have you come touch it and test it, because then i could know for sure. the last thing i want to do is sell someone bad alloy, so why dont you use your vast knowledge to help me make sure i dont? it would be very much appreciated.
Buck B-Hop
possom813
05-04-2013, 08:30 PM
wow.......and to think, I had a nice response of how to handle the lead that I just deleted.
I can't stand someone being disrespectful when folks are trying to enlighten
Bigslug
05-04-2013, 09:03 PM
I would hardness-test first whenever possible/practical, and then melt like items together. Or melt like items together and then hardness test the ingots after about a month.
This way you - and whoever you sell to - will have options for alloying later down the road. You never know when you'll change your mind. It could be magnum handguns today, muzzle loaders next year, buffalo rifles in five years, and Bullseye Pistol in seven. Having separate piles of ingredients in the pantry (pure, wheelweight, range scrap, linotype, tin, etc...) will allow you to cook more things.
clintsfolly
05-04-2013, 09:04 PM
Bhop please take this as helpful info as you have just a few post and people here have not got to know you yet. I as a long time caster,lead scrounger and forum member have handled lots of scrap and can by feel,bending,scratching and testing come close to what the stuff is. But I find it hard to sell lead that I can not just say it's COWW or SOWW or Indoor 22 range lead and other stuff. So I sell the stuff I can absolutely identify and let my buyers know what I have melted and poured into ingots. the rest get alloyed and I shoot it up. This plan has help me earn and keep a good name here I think!! Hope this helps Clint
wow.......and to think, I had a nice response of how to handle the lead that I just deleted.
I can't stand someone being disrespectful when folks are trying to enlighten
Possom I wasnt trying to be disrespectful at all. I was trying to go about this the most open and honest way i could. i have even posted pictures so everyone knows what was put into the ingots. i have a lot of respect for KYCaster i have read so many of his articles on here already. KYCaster I meant absolutely no disrepect in my previous post!
I would hardness-test first whenever possible/practical, and then melt like items together. Or melt like items together and then hardness test the ingots after about a month.
This way you - and whoever you sell to - will have options for alloying later down the road. You never know when you'll change your mind. It could be magnum handguns today, muzzle loaders next year, buffalo rifles in five years, and Bullseye Pistol in seven. Having separate piles of ingredients in the pantry (pure, wheelweight, range scrap, linotype, tin, etc...) will allow you to cook more things.
BigSlug Thank you very much this was the type of info i was seeking, curious why wait a month to test it? Thank you again big slug
Bhop please take this as helpful info as you have just a few post and people here have not got to know you yet. I as a long time caster,lead scrounger and forum member have handled lots of scrap and can by feel,bending,scratching and testing come close to what the stuff is. But I find it hard to sell lead that I can not just say it's COWW or SOWW or Indoor 22 range lead and other stuff. So I sell the stuff I can absolutely identify and let my buyers know what I have melted and poured into ingots. the rest get alloyed and I shoot it up. This plan has help me earn and keep a good name here I think!! Hope this helps Clint
Clint i appreciate your advise, im not new to casting myself but i have always had a supply of ww's so i never needed to scrounge to much. i too can tell by feel what weights are lead or not. i have had an idea of what these were made of by reseaching it but i dont have the experience so many on here do. i have no problems with the ww's, i was trying to see if anyone used what i had and if they wanted it how they would prefer it be handled. i would hope that my openness and honesty about what i had and trying to make sure that when it would be for sale there would be no question about what they are getting.i am new here but i have been on firearm forums for quite a while and take pride in my good feedback on the other forums just like i would like to have here
JonB_in_Glencoe
05-04-2013, 10:07 PM
Clint i appreciate your advise, im not new to casting myself but i have always had a supply of ww's so i never needed to scrounge to much. i too can tell by feel what weights are lead or not. i have had an idea of what these were made of by reseaching it but i dont have the experience so many on here do.
Buck,
regarding your OP, since you are a newbie member, I assumed you were a newbie caster. Personally, I'd be very leery to buy scrap alloy from a newbie.
With that said...I have two questions;
1. do you have a hardness tester ?
2. are you familiar with smelting Lead alloys at a low enough temperature so any Zinc won't melt and blend into the lead alloy?
I ask those questions as a prerequisite to my recomendation. depending on quantity, smelt everything unknown altogether into one BIG batch all in the same pot at the same time, then there'd be some uniformity of the alloy you're selling...I assume you have a pot big enough? Then after it has a chance to age harden...like 2 weeks or so, then take a hardness measurement. Not doubt it'll be good for low pressure pistol loads or something.
If you deside to sell it, do some research here on how to pack it for shipping. the best is the build a small wooden crate the just fits inside a Med. flat rate box. OR use the USPS tyvek bags, double box, some fibered strapping tape, and lots of clearing shipping tape...total encapsulation. Don't skimp or you'll end up shipping replacements...did I mention insurance ?
you might also look into a team boolits subscription, or maybe a vendor sponsorship if you have alot to sell.
Good luck,
Jon
1. no i personally dont have one, but i do have access to one and ive been thinking about building one like the ones one here.
2. yea i can keep it cool enough to make the zinc float i have only had 2 or 3 zincs make it thru my sorting though. i cast in a lee production pot and have a dutch oven and various sizes of stainless pots for smelting.
10 ga
05-04-2013, 10:59 PM
Your collection looks like the typical stuff I get at the junkyard. Test the pieces with diagonal cutters just to be sure they are soft. I smelt all my like items together and label the ingots, SOWW-COWW-cable sheath-pipe joint plumbers lead-fishing sinkers-sheet lead-roof jacks-battery cable ends-etc..... You may be able to sell the fishing sinkers w/o smelting as they cost pretty good in the sport shops. The big ingots look like the ends of 50# ingots that have been melted/cut and used by plumbers etc... After you get the items sorted and smelted into ingots you can get a tester or, check the stickey on how, and test with pencils or with a vice etc...
10 ga
KYCaster
05-05-2013, 10:38 AM
bhop, thanks for understanding.
Like I said in my previous post, it sounds kind of harsh. I seems to me you already know how to identify most of the scrap you find. There's no easy way to identify the stuff that's already been melted. The anonymous ingots and chunks and drips are just that.....anonymous. Without an analysis, you have no way of knowing what's in it and the cost of analyzing numerous small pieces is prohibitive. One option is to melt it all together and analyze the result, but you take the chance of ruining the entire batch.
I, and many others, prefer to buy scrap in its original form that is easily identified, but you already know that. If I'm paying shipping costs I want a reasonable expectation of receiving a usable product. If the product is in fresh ingots then my confidence goes down drastically.
I take a spring loaded center punch and diagonal cutters to the scrap yard with me and try to get some idea of what's in the bin before I commit to buying it and the guy I deal with is willing to take back the pieces that I can show are not lead and trade for good stuff. The last large lot I got had an unusual amount of steel WW and several large zinc ingots and some magnesium anodes buried in the bottom of the bin...nearly 300 lbs. I returned. If I had paid to ship that and had to deal with a seller in a distant location, I'd be really upset.
It sounds like you have a pretty good handle on the process. You just have to decide how much time and $ you want to invest in questionable material to avoid any complaints.....and have a plan in place to deal with complaints when they occur.
Good luck.
Jerry
hey thank you Jerry, i made the wheel weights and cable sheaths into ingots last night (seperate of course) and i got my stainless pot that i test questionables in and threw in all the sinkers kept it just hot enough to melt the lead, which some where lead but the bigger ones were not. i will take them to the guys around here who cast sinkers, the plumbing stuff really was a big surprise to me it was a soft lead that once the plumbing parts were pulled out looked pretty nice to me. your right i dont want to waste alot of time on it but thats why i am doing it the way i am. show pics and if anyone is interested i will do any "tests" they ask that im capable of and if they want it after getting the results then there we go. i can always get rid of this stuff around here to the fishing guys but wanted to help out the other bullet casters first, especially ones here who have given me so many ideas and a vast knowledge base to learn from. today im going to smelt the battery terminals and if i have time some of the other odds and ends. ill defineatly be going back for more of the sheathing though.
Bigslug
05-05-2013, 02:39 PM
BigSlug Thank you very much this was the type of info i was seeking, curious why wait a month to test it?
There are lead/antimony alloys - such as shotgun pellets and clip-on wheel weights - that will increase in hardness (to a point) as they age. Wheel weight metal that has had a few weeks to stabilize will read at about 12-14 BHN, but checking it only a few hours out of the mold gave me a reading of about 10. Were I ignorant of the age-hardening effects, I would have thought I was dealing with range scrap.
Click on the "From Ingot to Target" sticky towards the top of the Cast Boolits forum list and spend a few days with it to get yourself ejimicated. It will save you much effort and confusion.
meeesterpaul
01-13-2014, 01:08 AM
I have occasional access to an Xray scanner. I can get some pretty good info about the content of those items. The scanner only needs a small piece to get a reading, smaller than a dime, maybe matchstick sized.
RogerDat
01-13-2014, 08:31 PM
First I think it is thoughtful to consider sharing your find. Without diagnostic equipment to determine the composition of the material about all you can provide or guarantee is the temp material started to melt at, the temp of the fully liquid state which you cast the ingot at, and the BHN of the finished ingot after a couple of weeks.
I'm guessing but unless those figures indicate plain lead it's something of a **** shoot what the alloy is. If one has enough of a material it becomes practical to test a few different combinations of alloys with the material to arrive at something that shoots well then do a full run of that mix. Small quantities that would be impractical unless one knew that the unknown scrap material could be treated as plain lead.
I have read here and noticed on ebay that CWW sold in ingot form sell for about the price of plain lead and raw CWW command a higher price. Makes sense, it's like buying precious metals as an investment, no assay needed to figure out the silver content of a US silver dollar or gold content of a South African krugerrand. Little silver or gold bars not so easy to exchange and dealer will discount the price paid by the cost of the metal assessment.
lwknight
01-13-2014, 08:48 PM
OK. here is how I do it. There are basically 3 catagories
1.Pure lead which is easy to identify.
2. Wheel weights are what they are
3. Hodge podge of mystery metals.
And of course there will be some known solders and typemetals.
I pick out all the pure lead and recast it into 10 pound bricks ( no time to mess with small ingots) If successful sorting then the recast will be smooth , grey, and soft.
Wheel weights will be cleaned up and marked as WW clip-on , (stickies go as pure lead).
Identifiable solders and typemetals will be sorted and marked.
And then , the good mystery stuff. I mix it all together in a large batch and cast into 25 pound bricks for my own storage and I will get an assay to see exactly what it is then I can calculate a specific alloy to make from bought foundry additives like Rotometals Superhard and Pure tin.
Finally the weired mystery stuff. just melt it all together and get an assay to see if it is fishing/tractor weight stuff or casting material.
I know this is kind of general but it is a good statement of how it is.
So the rub is that if you are going to sell volume to public , you will need access to assay tools except for pure lead and positively identifiable metals.
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