Yet another 44 mag thread...

[offshore44]

Hello crew!

Finally got around to improving things with my 1975 Ruger SBH in 44 Mag. I've been shooting it with the original set of tools that I bought about a year and a half ago... and it works well enough for what I was doing. It shows promise though, so it seems time to do a better (more precise?) job of casting and loading for it.

It has subsisted on a diet of Lyman #2 cast in a Saeco #442 round nose mould, lubed up with blue angel lube. The powder has been Blue Dot, with a couple of forays into various other powders that I have on hand. I use standard CCI large pistol primers. The revolver seems to really want to shoot...the first round is right on the 1" bull's eye for the first shot and then opens up to about 6" or so after a long string. I'm getting lead streaks out of the barrel when I clean. Not enough to worry about with a dozen shots or so, but progressively worse after that. The lead seems to be concentrated in the first couple of inches of barrel.

Now for the nitty gritty of it! The "as cast" boolits are dropping from the mould right at 0.4315 to 0.4320. It takes a good deal of thumb pressure to push them through the cylinder throats on all but one cylinder and that one is still a good thumb pressure fit. The boolits drop through the cylinder throats after sizing (no lube) under their own weight once started. Can't feel any slop though. They measure out at 0.431" plus or minus a few ten-thousandths.

From reading a ton of threads on here it seems that the first thing on the agenda is to open up the sizing die a hair so that the boolits are a firm thumb push fit through the throats after sizing and lubing. Is that a good assumption? Luckily, it seems that there is enough boolit out of the mould for that.

I did slug the barrel when I first picked the revolver up. If I remember correctly, it slugged out at just a hair over 0.4310". Re-slugging the bore is on the agenda. I need to slug the bore away from where it screws into the frame, and ahead of that, right? Two different barrel slugs and two different measurements. That's to see if there is a barrel constriction where it screws in. On a side note, the forcing cone looks good, but then I'm an amateur at revolvers... Anyway, if the barrel is constricted there, then it needs to be opened up with the appropriate number of lapping compound impregnated boolits, i.e. fire lapped a bit.

It doesn't shave lead, so the cylinder timing appears to be satisfactory. Just from the wear on the barrel and other places that it was carried a lot and shot very little. It's not pristine, but it's a very workable and workmanlike firearm.

After all of that it's on to a better mould design and powder selection with the appropriate load work-ups!

I am just all jazzed up after the last trip out with this thing. Busting clays with one or two shots at 80 yards standing freehand was just a hoot, as well as punching paper at about 25 yards. Makes me want to go deer and elk hunting with it! I have enjoyed shooting this thing since I got it, but the last trip out made me want to concentrate on it and get the bugs worked out.

Eventually I would like to have two loads; one at, I'm guessing, about 1,000 to 1,100 fps for plinking and paper punching and another at around 1,300 to 1,350 fps or a little more for serious endeavors.

Thanks for the input, I'll be out of town for several days on a road trip to see the youngest daughter up at Ft. Lewis (She's a newly minted Second Lt. at her first duty station) but I am looking forward to any input all you-all may have.

[GaryN]

From your description..... it sounds like a barrel constriction. You sound like you know what to do about it. I would concentrate on slugging and measuring to see if you have one. I wouldn't worry about the rest until you find that out.

[35 Whelen]

Your problem sounds similar to mine with my .44 Special Blackhawk. I was having to size bullets to .430" for a cylinder whose throats measure around .432". I could detect no restriction in the barrel but was getting some leading just ahead of the forcing cone.
I found a solution in heavier loads. I began working with 2400 and a 429421 260 gr. SWC and by the time I got to around 1050 fps right on up past 1200 the leading was prcatically eliminated.


35W

[Tatume]

Hi,

If you can consistently hit clay birds offhand at 80 yards why mess with the gun? My only recommendation is to use slightly larger cast bullets. You should not be able to push them through the throats with you thumb.

Take care, Tom

[44man]

6943969440As long as the throats are a little over groove size, all is good. Most Ruger's will have a groove at .430". Better measurements need taken from that gun to make sure the throats are larger.
A tight fit or over throats with a boolit is a little over blown. I have had large throats on many .44's and my SBH has a .430" groove with .4324" throats and I shoot anything from .430" to .432" out of it. Even one cast at .429" shot well.
The gun could have a frame restriction. Easy fix.
What matters is cone alignment, a boolit that turns the cylinder into alignment, a boolit hard enough to take spin without skidding and a good lube.
#2 alloy might be good, I never shot it at all but water dropping it might improve it. I just use water dropped WW boolits.
I shoot a 250 gr SWC with 7 gr of Unique, 265 RD with 22 gr of 296, 310 Lee and 320 gr LBT WLN with 21.5 gr of 296 and my 330 gr with 21 gr of 296, ALL with a Fed 150 primer. I have other boolits too and they shoot good.
I have to believe too much is made about oversize to throats, it does no good to turn a cylinder into a size die.
Leading has many reasons but skid is at the top of my list, next is lube.
A boolit too soft can slump so bad all the GG's can be gone before the boolit leaves the brass or cylinder. The faster the powder the worse it is so if anyone thinks a low pressure load is easier on a boolit, I challenge that. I found the 250 SWC with Unique and 231 shot best at 28 to 30 BHN. Keeps the shoulder from mashing off one one side for better cylinder pull. The SWC has no nose to align the cylinder.
I have strange opinions about revolvers to some. But I get accuracy with no leading. Fit can be good but too many other things are just too important. I try to tell it is a total package. It has taken me years and I am not done yet but I have shot a few hundred groups to 1/2" at 100 yards with all of my revolvers.
I like to show. This is a boolit that is .429" to .430" depending on where I measure. Shot from the .4324" throats off hand at 100 yards.
Then a 200 yard group with the same boolit.

[Larry Gibson]

Change out the lube and powder first thing; go to a softer lube such as BAC or a NRA 50/50 lube. For medium range loads use Unique and for magnum loads use 2400 or 4227. The Blue Dot you have may work fine but at magnum level loads; you don't mention the load used?

You also don't mention what you are sizing the bullets at? I agree with 44man; "A tight fit or over throats with a boolit is a little over blown." Sounds like you are shooting them "as cast"? That is fine. I also think the "restriction" cause for leading is overblown. I've shot a lot of Rugers in the last 40+ years and have yet to lap one or found one that wouldn't lead with the right alloy, lube and powder combination which is not hard to find. Your #2 alloy should work fine; let the bullets AC at least 7-10 days before sizing lubing and shooting.

Best to solve the basic problems first before concerning ourselves with possible essoteric problems. Right now your lube and powder choice are the obvious reasons for the leading.

Larry Gibson

[Shuz]

Best to solve the basic problems first before concerning ourselves with possible essoteric problems. Right now your lube and powder choice are the obvious reasons for the leading.

Larry Gibson[/QUOTE]

Larry said it well. I'd try a softer lube and a charge of 18 or 19g of 2400 with your boolits and I bet your leading problems go away.

[felix]

Pick a powder and amount and hold that with the boolit lead of choice. After the load just works barely OK, then alter the boolit diameter to make final adjustment. The boolit should EXPAND to ZERO clearance out of the cylinder holes. ... felix

[44man]

I have various ideas and there are many other things fellas find to the same end.
Even what I get can be found another way. It will always amount to a balance of all things.
It is hard for anyone to decide what to try and worse here at this site because there is so much to look at. Just to research might take years.
It really is the shooter that must experiment and never get stuck in a page from a gun rag.
Good stuff is already being said, just pay attention and try things.
The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over expecting improvement. That is usually the cast boolit shooters problem.
Not here, we have people that work.

[offshore44]

Thanks for the input guys. I have a bunch of BAC, some Lymmn # 2 raw castings that are at least three months old and a little time on my hands right now. I don't have any 2400. I'll ask around and see if I can borrow some to test.

Oh, the boolits are sized to 0.431" plus or minus a few ten-thousandths in the sizer when I size and lube them.

One thing at a time though. I have BAC so I'll start there. (after I clean out my sizer)

I'll let you know what happens...Thanks again for the help!

[cbrick]

I agree that sizing larger than throat diameter won't help. Revolver throats are the very best boolit sizers there is, doesn't matter how much larger than the throats you make them they WILL be throat diameter when they exit. Falling through is too loose. Assuming accurate throat/groove diameter measurements it sounds like your good to go.

My best success is with lighter boolits/loads with faster powders and heavy boolits with slower powders for magnum loads. If your shooting lite loads it's possible your alloy (#2) is too hard, a slower powder & stouter load should answer that using #2.

The last thing I would consider is altering a firearm (fire lapping) before all other options were exhausted. Start at the beginning and make sure the measurements are accurate and that the groove diameter is indeed AT OR SMALLER than throat diameter. If your groove diameter of .431"? is larger than the throats it'll lead until fixed.

Rick

[Tatume]

I agree that sizing larger than throat diameter won't help. Revolver throats are the very best boolit sizers there is, doesn't matter how much larger than the throats you make them they WILL be throat diameter when they exit. Falling through is too loose. Assuming accurate throat/groove diameter measurements it sounds like your good to go.

If throats are smaller than barrel groove diameter, sizing larger will not help. But that hasn't been determined yet. If throats are larger than barrel groove diameter (which they should be), then sizing slightly larger than the smallest throat diameter may help.

Take care, Tom

[cbrick]

If throats are larger than barrel groove diameter (which they should be), then sizing slightly larger than the smallest throat diameter may help. Take care, Tom

Help what? When they exit the throats they will be throat diameter regardless of how much larger you make them.

Rick

[Tatume]

Yes, but if they are not throat diameter or larger they may not be. The OP said his bullets were a slip fit, not quite throat dia.

[44man]

Even a hard boolit can expand enough under the pressure to seal the throats. It is, after all, only lead.
A difference in throat sizes by a small amount just has no affect. Slip fit is good!

[WALLNUTT]

Can a boolit be too hard or pressure too low and cause leading in the first part of the barrel?

[offshore44]

OK, so I can't locate any 2400 at the moment, so that is pending. I do have some 5744. I am almost thinking that just changing the lube is the place to start though. Stick with changing one thing at a time so I know what each change accomplishes.

A related question on boolit alloy. The Lyman #2 is theoretically about 15 BHN. If I remember correctly - 44man's WDWW are harder than that. What hardness of alloy is everyone else having success with? I read someplace that Mr. Keith used 16:1 at one point in the 44 mag. That's on the order of 11 BHN.

The BAC is loaded up in the sizer. Much different than the Blue Angel stuff.

[Larry Gibson]

What weight cast bullet is the Saeco? If 240+ gr the Blue Dot will work fine.

What load of Blue Dot were you using?

The BAC Lube should work fine.

Larry Gibson

[offshore44]

The Saeco is nominally 240 grn. It casts out at about 245 grns from my mould.

The Blue Dot load that I have been using for the last year or so is 14.0 grns.

[Larry Gibson]

OK, with the switch to BAC lube work up from 14 gr to 17 gr Blue Dot in 1/2 gr increments. That is going to put you into the magnum level class still within SAAMI MAP for the 44 Magnum. It will be as good as the 2400 powder you can't find anyways.

Larry Gibson

[44man]

Can a boolit be too hard or pressure too low and cause leading in the first part of the barrel?
I don't think so. My boolits run from 18 to 22 BHN when WD. Depends on the WW batch. Never see a difference.
Fast powders have a lower peak but reach peak very fast so they have a lot of pressure real fast. Slow powder has a peak farther out and starts a boolit easier.
Leading at the start is almost always skid or slump. Skid past the base band opens gas channels.
I don't like BHN numbers.
Elmer used a tin rich boolit that is still tough but today it would be very expensive.
I would not look at the BHN of his boolit, means little.
You can water drop #2 alloy so you can test to see if harder works better for you. I kind of state that wrong, I think water dropping toughens the boolit because it does not change the alloy but brings it to toughness faster. Yes the BHN is higher but do the numbers mean anything?
I have oven hardened 50-50 WW and pure to 20 BHN and splashed deer meat all over the woods! All I did was make the boolits take the rifling better.

[Larry Gibson]

Concure with 44man. If the bullet at least fits the groove diameter (in this case it fits the throats) then leading is most often caused by a poor alloy for the velocity or the lube is not working soon enough. This is with low or higher pressured loads.

Larry Gibson

[Lloyd Smale]

dont know what serious encounters are for you but that round nose at 1300 isnt going to very good for any of them. First thing id do is get an lfn or a swc mold and do your work with that bullet as it will work good for plinking and for hunting.

[offshore44]

dont know what serious encounters are for you but that round nose at 1300 isnt going to very good for any of them. First thing id do is get an lfn or a swc mold and do your work with that bullet as it will work good for plinking and for hunting.

I have to agree with you there Lloyd, those round nose boolits aren't for anything serious. I started looking for another mould that will fit the bill better. The Lyman #429421 attracted my attention. I haven't seen a hollow point yet in 250 grn. range that looks right. By serious encounters, I mean hunting situation, deer and such. Maybe an Elk if that seems reasonable after actually loading and shooting some. Don't know about that though. I'm a subsistence hunter, so results are what is required. It'll be awhile, I buy moulds, top punches and such with the money I get from turning in the brass that other folks leave laying around.

I lubed up some of the Saeco's that were under the bench, with BAC, a couple of days ago and there isn't much lube on those things. Two grease grooves, but they are smallish. I wonder if that is the problem?

I've got about 75 boolits cast up in Lyman #2, and ten pounds of #2 in ingots to play with. I also have about 100 pounds of range scrap with 6% pewter and / or tin on hand as well. That stuff is my go-to alloy because it's the cheapest and most readily available alloy. Lucky for me, pewter and tin are easy and cheap, as is range scrap. It sucks being poor some days.

Well...off to load up some 44 mag for me and some 45-70 for the wife's rifle! We shall see what we shall see...

[Bucking the Tiger]

44man and Mr.Gibson are steering you the right way.There are so many factors,and they all collectively influence the outcome.
I have used the Lyman #429421 boolit for years. It is my favorite go to .44 boolit. I now have a 5 cavity NOE mould #429421 that has replaced my 2 cavity Lyman, and recently purchased a 4 cavity hollow point version of the #429421 from Mr. Nelson at NOE and have found it outstanding also. They drop at 230 grains and are match accurate. NOE makes fine moulds.
The #429421 has a giant lube groove( Elmer loved lots of lube) and I prefer a softer lube, that is not as hard as a crayon. A guy on Ebay sells a light green lube called TAC 1 for a very fair price and that is all I have used since trying it.

[offshore44]

Hey Bucking the Tiger...could you tell me more about that NOE Hollow point mold? Thx!

[44man]

I have to come back. There is NO need for a hollow point cast in the .44 for deer. The velocities are correct and all you need is a decent meplat. The 429421 is good as are the LBT WLN and WFN, so too the Lee 310 gr RNFP.
I use a solid, no hollow point boolit in the .44. Water dropped WW metal and have taken so many deer it is funny. I depend on the gun most of any I have. It just plain works. You need nothing fancy.
NO ROUND NOSE if you please. You need NO expansion with the .44. Just a flat nose.
I use many calibers in revolvers but if I could only have one, it would be a .44, it never fails.

[offshore44]

Hi 44man...that saves me about $40 right there. That round nose mould that I have has been around as long as the revolver has been, and maybe longer. The Ruger IS my only revolver...and I'm starting to like it more each time I take it out. If everything gets worked out, it'll be my usual carry piece when I'm out and about and feel the need to carry. The Colt National Match Elite that is my normal carry will become a "Sunday go to meeting" and target / plinking pistol. The Ruger is a heck of a lot stouter than the Colt is, and a more workmanlike tool to boot.

I'm thinking that Rotometals is going to have to send me some of that super hard alloy so that I can make appropriate alloy to feed this thing.

[Bucking the Tiger]

44man is correct in what he says. Nothing fancy, just a big bullet with a decent nose size. We all have our preferences.
I bought the hollow point NOE mold for a good self defense bullet against two legged snakes, though nothing wrong with the original design. It's penetration is superior. The hollow point will have far more limited penetration, all else being equal.
I am a big fan of NOE moulds and really like dealing with Al("Swede")Nelson. His moulds are first quality. The hollow point one is not cheap, but is really easy to use. He even makes a 265 WFN with or without gas check option. Check out his website.
There are Keith bullets listed on Gunbroker in solid and hollowpoint versions.

[44man]

The only hardness needed is to take rifling. Just plain WW's water dropped work perfect for me.
BUT, the faster guns or those with very heavy boolits then need some expansion.
The two most perfect for deer I have that can use a hard boolit are the .44 and .475. To go over WW metal is not needed and just increases cost.
WW's are great, you can air cool, water drop or oven harden without spending a dime.

[offshore44]

<snip> WW's are great, you can air cool, water drop or oven harden without spending a dime.

That thought is predicated on the availability of non-steel / non-zinc wheel weights in sufficient quantities and low enough price. Unfortunately, the metro-area bunny huggers in the valley have eliminated lead alloy wheel weights from the region. I have already scrounged all of the wheel weights in the area that were stashed in old coffee cans and mason jars in barns and gas stations in the area. The Rotometals high antimony alloy seems like the best bet for my particular situation, because there is lead and tin available for low to no cost locally. Antimony is the limiting resource at the moment.

[44man]

I see in the future I will have to buy from Rotometals myself. We are lucky to have them. My supply is getting low and a lot of tire shops will not give or sell anymore. They have buyers already.
The scrap yard will not sell to the public anymore. I seen a bunch of 55 gal drums of WW's there and asked how much to buy some. No deal!

[Larry Gibson]

There is NO need for a hollow point cast in the .44 for deer.

Might appear that 44man and I disagree about the above but that's not the case. No, you don't "need" a HP for use on deer with with a SWC or WFN. As I've said before I will hunt with anyof them if a good HP isn't available as they will do the job. The proper HP of proper alloy just kills quicker is all and that's why I "prefer" them. Just a matter of personal choice is all. If my 429460HPs with that wide nose don't expand they are every bit as good as a WFN....thus I've the best of both choices........but they do expand, even in deer.......

Larry Gibson

70425

[44man]

Larry, they sure do expand and kill but my problem using hollow points in the .44 was too many stopped in the deer and the entrance hole does not bleed very good. The saving grace was I seen the deer drop with all of them around 60 yards. Back tracking to impact showed no blood trails. It was open enough to watch them but if I was back where I now hunt, they would be out of sight in an instant.
The same thing happened with the 240 XTP, double lung hits never broke out the other side, no blood trails.
I have since taken many, many deer with just a heavy, good meplat boolit and they rarely go 30 yards and there is so much blood on the ground you can track looking straight ahead. There has been no need to even track, I see or hear them fall.
You have the boolit weight for penetration but I assure you a flat nose on it will also work.
The hollow point in the .44 is going to depend on remaining weight, not velocity. I don't think a 240 to 250 gr HP is capable at all times to get through. Then a big bone hit?
Now my .500 JRH with a 440 gr has to be the best paper punch I ever seen. I hit the last deer at 120 yards, front of left shoulder, out behind the right. He ran to me 100 yards, turned into the woods another 20 yards. I back tracked to impact, not a single drop of blood. The only blood at the deer was from his nose.
That gun NEEDS a HP. So does my 45-70. Both need a softer alloy or softer nose.
I change revolvers during the seasons and get 2 to 3 with the .44 each year, I might have 60 to 75 deer with the one .44 without a loss, the Lee 310 did superb last season, 2 deer went nowhere.
The biggest hammer of Thor is the .475. 95% of deer just drop without a wiggle. Boolit weight and velocity are a perfect match for a hard FN.
Distance has a bearing too. At 100, 120 yards, a deer shot with the .44 will go a little farther so a HP with weight would be better. The boolit has slowed. The HP is better if you have a lower MV, my .44 runs about 1316 fps with a 310 and 320 gr boolit. If I was shooting heavy boolits slower, I would do like you do.
So you are NOT wrong, it still comes down to balance. It will always be velocity, distance, boolit weight, alloy and shape. I call it boolit work.

[jimb.]

You wrote that you slugged your barrel at .4310". I assume that you're talking groove (not bore) diameter. Respectfully, that must be a mistake in your typing, or in your measuring, or your revolver is much different than my 2 revolvers. I have 2 Ruger Super Blackhawks in .44 Rem. Mag. I've very accurately slugged & measured all cylinder throats and both bores. The dimensions are very consistent in both revolvers. Both bores are .4295" groove diameter. The cylinder throats are .4320" to .4325".

jimb.

[44man]

You wrote that you slugged your barrel at .4310". I assume that you're talking groove (not bore) diameter. Respectfully, that must be a mistake in your typing, or in your measuring, or your revolver is much different than my 2 revolvers. I have 2 Ruger Super Blackhawks in .44 Rem. Mag. I've very accurately slugged & measured all cylinder throats and both bores. The dimensions are very consistent in both revolvers. Both bores are .4295" groove diameter. The cylinder throats are .4320" to .4325".

jimb.
Ruger used to have barrels made for them. They make their own now. Most .44's will be about .430" groove. It will still vary a little.
Cylinders are gang reamed, all six at once so a cutter can be different.
It has proven to be as good as line bored guns.
Now BFR's have perfect Badger barrels and consistent throats. Just a large Ruger with more care and work.
Yet a Ruger will shoot with the very best, most expensive guns you can buy. I have not seen a custom revolver shoot good enough for the price. Money does not make accuracy.

[GaryN]

I have a Ruger Super Blackhawk that slugs at .431. I have a Redhawk that slugs at .4315. That's why we slug the bore. There are many differences from the same make.

[Larry Gibson]

44man

Your experience is just the opposite as mine; I have yet to recover a HP'd cast bullet or an XTP in a deer. All, including raking shots have exited. You must have a lot bigger deer than i have where I hunt because I don't consider ther to be any "big bones" in the heart/lung area. I have shot through both "shoulders", inculding the bones therein, and still had excellent through and through penetration. The 240 gr XTPs ran 1400+ fps and the 429244HPs or the 429460HPs (both 270 gr BTW) run 1300 - 1400 fps. I have not shot a deer farther than about 90 paces with a 44 Magnum handgun, most under 50 yards....just my own preference is all.

So you are NOT wrong, it still comes down to balance. It will always be velocity, distance, boolit weight, alloy and shape. I call it boolit work.

We certainly agree on that! Well said.

Larry Gibson

[44man]

Some of our deer do get big, I shot several 200# + doe. I think we have Michigan White Tails here, not VA deer.
I recovered all three 240 XTP's against the ribs on side shots behind the shoulders, only ribs hit. I used 24 gr of 296.
This is what I got with my hard WLN with a shoulder shot from the .44. Makes me fear a hollow point unless distance gets longer. This shot was about 50 yards.
The lowly .44 (new thoughts that you need bigger) will always be one of the best for deer. I would not hesitate shooting much larger animals. It is just the perfect caliber. 70877

[Lloyd Smale]

I havent had a problem with hps on deer sized game. Ive shot a few does and a few hogs with them and theyve penetrated just fine. We did have problem with them on bison though. But then they tax the ability of any handgun round. Are they needed on deer? hell no. Are they better on deer? maybe, but dead is dead and ive sent many deer to heaven using keiths and lfns without any fuss or muss. Would i use hps again on deer sized game? sure why not. I sure wouldnt use them on anything that was bigger then about 300lbs though. I may catch a little flack for this but i consider the 357, 10mm and even the 41 mag sub caliber hunting guns. They just dont have the mass to really give quick kills with hard cast bullets. In those calibers i tend to use cast hps, jacketed hps and even wfns (another bullet im not crazy about) and also tend to use heavy for caliber bullets in them. In the 44s, 45s, 475s and 500s hardcast bullets with a decent meplat will get it done without expansion.

[44man]

That is why I never used the smaller calibers. It is just too hard to find the right bullet. I just can't afford to test all of them. It is hard to buy even one box.
My friend used the 300 XTP on several deer and they worked to perfection, just enough weight and toughness.
Some time back I shot a deer walking fast at 60 yards. I got the lead and as the gun went off brush appeared between us. I hit it low chest with my 330 gr, .44 boolit and took out both front legs. Found a few twigs shot off. Thing is a freight train!

[Larry Gibson]

I had the opportunity to kill numerous animals as an LEO (deer, elk and domestic stock). The sheriff was very gun friendly and since I had my own PV (large Blazer) I often carried various firearms and differnt kinds of ammuntion for testing (securely locked in a container in the back of the Blazer). My own max range for such animals with a handgun is 50 - 75 yards with issue sights shooting off hand (yes I prefer a rest but still maintain those maximums....just personal preferance is all). With the .41 and .44 Magnum I will stretch it to 100 yards. However, I have to say that most all of my deer, elk hunting handgun shots have been at 50 yards or less.

Thus I have no problems with the smaller cartridges. Finding bullets that work is not difficult and requires little if any testing. I found the JHPs and GC'd softer cast HPs at the velocity the cartridge is capable of in a particular barrel length kill the quickest. I also found that if barrels vary from 4 - 8+" one bullet is not "equal" in all even with hardcast of various nose designs.

I've not found any real benifit on deer for heavy for caliber bullets, cast or jacketed. With barrels of 6" or more using cast or jacketed in the .357 bullets of 140 - 160 gr, bullets of 200 - 220 gr in the .41 and bullets of 240 - 270 gr in the .44 Magnums do just as well as heavier bullets. Not criticising the use of the heavies just havent found them necessary is all. In the standard cartridges I found that standard weight bullets for the cartridges worked as well, either cast or jacketed.

Yes you can use the wrong bullet, cast or jacketed, and get less than satisfactory results. The point is if one style/type works in one cartridge within a given velocity range then the same type/style will work in another cartridge in the same velocity range. For example; cast 357156 out of 16-1 alloy, GC 'em and load 'em to 1400 fps (6"+ barrel) and you'll find them to perform as well (expansion and penetration) as a 410610 in the .41 or a 429244 in the .44 when cast the same and loaded to the same 1400 fps ( same 6"+ barrel lengths). Have a good HP design or use the 1/8" Forster HP tool and you can improve the terminal effect of all of them.

Again, as I've stated numerous times, I've no problems with using hard cast SWC or WFNs in any of those aclibers if that's what's available. I would even use a heavy for caliber bullet if that's all i had. They all kill deer nicely. Killing deer isn't hard.....it's finding them and shooting them that is the hard part.......

I don't use the larger handgun cartridges out of personal preference. I find the .41 and .44 Magnums to fit my needs w/o problem. If I feel the need for something "bigger" or for longer range I use a rifle.....no problem with those that do.........I just know my own limitations is all........

Larry Gibson

[44man]

Too bad you live so far Larry. Deer are like rats here.

[Larry Gibson]

Too bad you live so far Larry. Deer are like rats here.

Have SilveRado, can travel:-D

Larry Gibson

[44man]

Have SilveRado, can travel:-D

Larry Gibson
You would be welcome. Shoot some doe off.

[jimb.]

Yup, 44man. I do see that the OP has a 1975 Ruger SBH, so that may explain the difference in his groove diameter dimension. I do get very nice accuracy from both my Rugers. To quantify that solidly, I'd have to do more bench shooting @ 50 & 100 yds. in controlled conditions, but they've centered everything I've wanted to hit out to 100 yds., which has been my personal limit, so far. I'm pretty particular about accuracy & everything else. I do admire both my Ruger 7.5" barrel SBH, and my Ruger 10.5" barrel Silhouette model which I got only a few months ago. I'm satisfied with their pretty-darn-tight barrel/cylinder gap (.002 - .003" on the 7.5" barrel, and .001 - .002" on the Silhouette model). For a while, I was tempted by a Freedom Arms or a BFR in .454 Casull, but, heck, my Rugers in .44 Rem. Mag. with good handloads are as good as anything I'll need, and a heckuva lot cheaper than a BFR or a Freedom Arms revolver. I really like efficiency, and a .44 Rem. Mag. with a heavy, cast, HP bullet will smack anything hard enough, accurately, efficiently, without hurting your ears, arms, or shooting hand.

jimb.

[44man]

Jimb, I have always been a Ruger nut. I am also BFR nut even more--BIG, overgrown Rugers with much better barrels and dimensions. I have the .475, .500 JRH, both with 7-1/2" barrels and the 45-70 with a 10".
My SBH is my 10-1/2" IHMSA gun bought as soon as it came out and I will never part with it. It is SOOOOO easy to shoot and has something around 70,000 rounds through it now, lost count of primer boxes lately. No wear at all, tight as the first day.
All I can say is the .44 is so dependable on deer, if I could have one gun, that would be the one.
I do not like the .454, never did. Worked on and shot many but they just don't do it for me.
Now the .475 is a different animal in the BFR. So accurate along with the hammer of Thor. Hard to tame at first but worth every penny. Cost was about Ruger, I think mine was $715 out the door.
I have been shooting .44's since 1956 and will never be without one. But don't overlook a BFR.

[offshore44]

Results...
Thanks for all of the input here folks.

I got the SBH out with several different loads last weekend. The results were as advertised. When I stopped using crayons for lube, the leading in the first part of the barrel stopped. Nice! The boolit diameter seems to be just fine, as is the alloy. I did play with some 16:1 alloy just for giggles, as well as a few different powders that were on hand. 5744 surprised me, nice rolling recoil for a 1300 fps load. I shot up the last 55 Blue Dot / Blue Angel lube rounds that I had after testing. I do believe that I could have cast a boolit with all the lead that was deposited in the bore from that effort. The BAC lube fixed the issue though.

I'm currently rounding up odds and ends to sell / swap for a new Lyman #429421 mould and top punch. It looks like I've got a new utility pistol!

Thanks again folks, appreciate it a whole bunch.