Browning BLR in .358 Win clip feeding problem

[Shuz]

Hi guys, I have recently acquired a Mirokou(sp) Japanese made Browning BLR in .358 Winchester that will not feed properly when there is more than one round in the clip. The round under the top round seems to wanna push the top one out as the bolt moves forward. I have found out that clips for these guns are quite pricey, being in the >$150.00 range if you can find one, so I hesitate to try bending the lips etc. I do believe the clip I got with the gun is the correct one for the older guns that kinda have the clip hanging down a bit and are not flush like later modles. The clip says .243,.308 and .358 at the rear of the clip. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks--Shuz

[MBTcustom]

Please, stop calling it a clip. BLRs do not use "clips" and no firearm since WWII I am aware of does. The correct name for the piece of equipment you are referring to, is a MAGAZINE.

Unfortunately, the old style magazines are a little on the "hard to get" side. Take it to a competent gunsmith, and get him to tune the feedlips. Should make it good as new, and wouldn't cost more than $50 I would think.
If you are going to attemt this yourself, understand thatif you do it wrong, you can foul it up irreparably pretty easily if you go at it with the old vice grips LOL!
Practice on another gun that is easy to get magazines for, (like a 1911?). Once you understand the mechanics of it, there's nothing to it.
Basically, you see how the feed lips capture the cartridges under them? What has happened is over time, the cartridges have done a number on the feedlips, and they have been rolled upward a little. You need to bend them downward and inward just a few thousandths of an inch (evenly on both sides) until they will capture the cartridges enough to keep them, while allowing them to be smoothly stripped by the bolt.
Be carfull to use smooth jawed instruments, and do not kink the metal, or bend it any way other than opposite of the way the cartridges pushed them out. It takes some finesse.

[waksupi]

Shuz, it may be the follower. See if a Mauser or other follower made for a .308 based case will work. It's amazing how much difference a change can make.

[Shuz]

Hey Ric--My ignorance is showing! Whaddaya mean by a follower?
Tim--The lips on the magazine contain the cartridges OK, it's just that when the bolt moves forward and starts to strip the top cartridge, the cartridge underneath it moves also and the gun jams. I hear you about the cost of these magazines and I'm not about to try any modification to mine unless I have a spare.

[waksupi]

Shuz, the follower is the metal piece on which the cartridges ride in the magazine. You should see a ridge running the length of that, that holds the cartridges in a particular position. A few thousandths one way or the other can make all the difference in the world. And it's about the cheapest part on a rifle to change out! You might try removing yours, and giving it a good polishing.

[MBTcustom]

Hmmm, then Ric's advice is probably closer to being right.

[Shuz]

I looked at the magazine follower and there is a ridge there by design, and as you look down one it, the ridge is to the right of center. About 1/2" from the end of the magazine, on the ridge itself is a small raised portion. Is that supposed to be there? I'd sure appreciate it if one of you folks who have an old BLR with this type magazine would look at theirs and see if it also has that bump or raised portion.

[John 242]

What year is your rifle?

A quick internet search found POST 1981 BLR .358 Win magazines for $64.00. Is your rifle pre or post 81?
I posted serial number references below. I would first determine what year make rifle you have that way you can be sure of what magazine you need. Post and Pre magazines are not interchangeable.
In Stock, .358 BLR Mags:
http://www.midwestgunworks.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?
Pre 1981 magazine seem to be harder to find. I have found a few for about $140 although at times they can be found for half that price.

I can't help you insofar as figuring out what's wrong with your magazine, as I don't understand what you are describing. The cartridge below the top cartridge should not be able to move forward because it should hit the forward wall of the magazine box. It sounds as if you have a weak magazine spring thats allowing that second cartridge to move upwards and outwards causing a double feed. Damaged feed lips can also cause double feeding.

I would spend the $64 for a new magazine (IF YOU HAVE A POST 81) and then, if the gun still malfunctions, I would start looking for other problems.

If a Pre-81, try finding a replacement magazine spring. I've tried, but not having much luck.

[John 242]

From 1975 to 1998:

In 1975 Browning standardized its serial number identification which it followed until 1998. The Model 81 BLR was introduced in 1981. The Lightning BLR was introduced in 1995.

1. Serial Number
beginning with 01001
at the start of each year.
2. Date of Manufacture
is a two digit code Z=1
Y=2
X=3
W=4
V=5
T=6
R=7
P=8
N=9
M=0
3. BLR Type 127=BLR Lever Action
327=Model 81 BLR Long Action
227=Model 81 BLR Short Action
427=Lightning BLR

Serial
Number Example:
01001PY227

This would be an Model 81 BLR Short Action rifle,manufactured in 1982 with the serial number 01001.

Copied from:
http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/ctgy/blr-rifle-history

[John 242]

BLR Serial numbers 1969 to 1975:


1969-75
In 1969 Browning started using two digits for the date of manufacture:
K=BLR Lever Action Rifle
This was then followed by the serial number.
K=BLR Lever Action Rifle
Made in Belgium from 1969 - 1972. Made in Japan from 1973 to present.

For example:
19899 K71 is a BLR made in 1971.

[John 242]

1998 to Present-


1998

1. Serial Number
beginning with 01001
at the start of each year.
2. Date of Manufacture
is a two digit code Z=1
Y=2
X=3
W=4
V=5
T=6
R=7
P=8
N=9
M=0
3. Lightning BLR Type 341=Lightning BLR



Serial
Number Example:
01001NN341

This would be a Lightning BLR rifle, manufactured in 1999 with the serial number 01001

[John 242]

69581
Here's a Pre-81 magazine follower.

69582
Here's a Pre-81 Magazine body.

[JesterGrin_1]

Can you not get a Magazine from the Manufacturer? It would seem a bit odd to me that you could not do so without the high price for such an item.

[John 242]

Can you not get a Magazine from the Manufacturer? It would seem a bit odd to me that you could not do so without the high price for such an item.

Wouldn't hurt to give Browning a call, but BLR magazines were changed from the old design to the new design in 1981. The old magazines are considered obsolete and kind of hard to come by.
Used ones show up from time to time for less than $100 but you have to be at the right place at the right time.

Here's a Post-81 magazine for comparison- 69599

Pre 81:
69600
Post 81:
69601

[pietro]

The lips on the magazine contain the cartridges OK, it's just that when the bolt moves forward and starts to strip the top cartridge, the cartridge underneath it moves also and the gun jams.




While they may contain the cartridges (which is not their only job), the magazine lips are NOT "OK" - They only look so.
Another job of the lips is to hold the top cartridge in the proper position for trouble-free feeding.

The lips of your magazine have spread ever so slightly, when they were bent up & outward by cartridges driven under the pressure of the magazine spring over the years - enough so that ALL the cartridges are riding higher in the magazine than they should be - which is what's causing the 2nd cartridge's rim to be caught by the bolt head as it's feeding the cartridge just above it, causing your "jam".

The lips have to be (as posted above) expertly bent back down/in to their proper position, with a proper tool, to position the cartridges that very little bit deeper in the magazine body, while still allowing proper feeding of the topmost cartridge.



.

[waksupi]

After seeing the configuration of the followers, I will swing my support over to a lip problem.

[Shuz]

69581
Here's a Pre-81 magazine follower.

69582
Here's a Pre-81 Magazine body.

John,
Thanks for the pictures of the pre-81 magazine. That's exactly what mine looks like. My serial number is 30459RRxxx so I guess it is a pre-81 BLR. It looks exactly like the one you have pictured as being a pre 81 BLR. Based on these discussions, sounds like I have a "spread lip" problem. I wish I could locate another magazine without having to mortgage the ranch!
Thanks for all the help folks!
--Shuz

[MBTcustom]

I repeat my advice to take it to a gunsmith who has experience doing magazine tuning.
You can learn how on your own, but you are going to jack up several of them beyond all hope of repair, while you are getting the hang of it (ask me how I know).

[Shuz]

This *** is gonna be at my table "for sale" or trade, at the June gun show in Spokane, unless I get a good offer here.--Shuz

[JesterGrin_1]

Shuz come on I know you are one of the good guys here. Do not pass on to someone else something that does not work.

I always liked how the BLR Looked and function but the complexity for me just put it out of my thought range lol. A bolt gun or a Marlin is about my speed. :)

[Pilgrim]

I think the pre-81 BLR magazine problem/solution is a bit different than proposed so far. My rifle is essentially identical to shuz's rifle. In fact I expect to see shuz tomorrow in Spokane and will let him try another magazine. I bought my rifle quite a few years ago used. The magazine lips, rim, etc. had been bent every way imaginable on the magazine but the rifle still would not feed properly. I suspect that is why it was for sale. Having owned a Rem 788, I suspected a scarcity of magazines in the near future, so right after I bought mine I called Browning and found out they had 3 remaining. I bought all of 'em. I now have 4 magazines, 3 of which are brand new. None (as in zip - nada - zero) of these will feed properly in my rifle. If I EVER put 4 rounds in the magazine when the bolt is drawn rearward 2 rounds will pop up and jam the rifle. The bolt does not have to be moved forward for this to happen. I cannot recall if I ever successfully managed to load 3 and have them feed properly. I usually can load 2 and get proper feeding, but not always. I suspect that the magazine springs are way too strong, but I don't have the guts to heat them to reduce the spring force. I called Browning and asked their advice and they assured me that it wasn't the magazine. Previously I had sent the rifle to Browning with a barrel problem and it took them 6 months to return it, with minimal improvement in the barrel. I had to replace it. I don't plan on trusting Browning repairs again. Both because they failed to fix an obvious bad barrel (5 shots in ~ 25" @ 100 yds.), and because they sat on it for 6 months, and were less than friendly when I called to check the status of the repair after 3 months or so. I called a second time a month or so later and received the same attitude. I'm looking for a smith around here that will sort the problem out for me. So far no luck. FWIW Pilgrim

[Shuz]

Pilgrim called me and we are meeting tomorrow in Spokane with our rifles to test pre-81 BLR magazine interchangability etc. It sounds to me like it is a Browning design problem from the get-go. We'll keep you all posted on the results.

[Cap'n Morgan]

No doubt, Browning changed the magazine design for a reason. That pre-81 mag looks pretty flimsy.

The lips are almost always the culprit. Often the cartridges ride too high, but if the magazine has been dropped, the opposite can also be a problem. I recently fixed a Benelli semiauto with exactly that problem. If you can find a well functioning magazine, you can compare the two loaded magazines side by side and pretty much tell where to put the bend on the lips. If in doubt, take it to a competent gunsmith.

[Shuz]

Update on Pilgrims visit.....My magazine loaded with dummy 35 cal 280g HP's works fine in his pre 81 BLR and also works now in mine if I operate the lever in a brisk fashion. In the past I've been operating the lever very slowly so as to easily collect the brass before it gets tossed into the next county. Therein I think lies the problem. Pilgrim has discovered that all his mags except one now operate fine also. His mag fit my BLR, but alas, when I tried to feed my rifle, his dummy 35-200 boolit was too large for my chamber and would not close the action completely. Then dontcha know the boolit was wedged in my bbl....and there we were in the back lot of a shopping mall without a cleaning rod between us. Duh, I shoulda thought about that and brung one but I didn't!

[waksupi]

So apparently it is like a Mauser, and to function properly needs cycled like you mean business!

[Shuz]

Evidently!
I'd swap this gun in a New York minute for a Ruger 77 in .358 Winchester!