Need Assitance with Bolt Identification

[kywoodwrkr]

This bolt was with another(03 variant) that I have.
Anyone have an idea what it goes to.
The longer one is bolt in question.
Just click on image to obtain other pictures.
One on left is the 03 variant.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v127/Kywoodwrkr/Bolts%20What%20are%20they/Bolt%20Unknown/th_MVC-012S_zps1eaf41bd.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Kywoodwrkr/media/Bolts%20What%20are%20they/Bolt%20Unknown/MVC-012S_zps1eaf41bd.jpg.html)
Any assitance and/or ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks.

[junkbug]

US Rifle Model 1917

[kywoodwrkr]

US Rifle Model 1917
Thank you.
Are the makers mark on the underside of the bolt like the 03?
I'm assuming then the bolt was altered then.
1914/1917 had a dog leg sorta bolt handle-down and back.
Since I have no idea what the pedigree is of this critter anything is, and probably is, possible.
Thanks.

[JHeath]

The M1917 had a dogleg handle. And that does not look like a sporter handle replacement. Other than that I can't contest Junkbug's ID and he probably knows more about bolts than I.

[kywoodwrkr]

Any comment on the square piece attached to it?
Thta was wired to it when I got it, so assume(Yea I know) that it was related to the bolt some how.
Thanks.

[junkbug]

It is very hard to tell from the photo, the bolt did look altered, but maybe not. The hole in the bolt root is for the safety, and other features add up as well. If unaltered, it would be for a Remington Model 30, the factory sporterized verzion of the US M1917.

[Multigunner]

Handle looks welded to me.
Several vendors sold factory altered Mauser and M1917 bolts by mail order for quick sporter projects, and there have been factory sporterized M1917 and P14 rifles by BSA and Parker Hale as well as others.

The rectangular piece looks like some sort of recoil lug that would be fitted in the stock.

[JHeath]

It is very hard to tell from the photo, the bolt did look altered, but maybe not. The hole in the bolt root is for the safety, and other features add up as well. If unaltered, it would be for a Remington Model 30, the factory sporterized verzion of the US M1917.

Is it a cock-on-closing or cock-on-opening bolt?

The Remington Model 30 had the same dogleg M1917 handle. But the Model 30 cocked on opening. The very similar Model 720 was a Model 30 with a swept-back handle, and a faster lock time. But those are pretty scarce.

[Multigunner]

Is it a cock-on-closing or cock-on-opening bolt?

The Remington Model 30 had the same dogleg M1917 handle. But the Model 30 cocked on opening. The very similar Model 720 was a Model 30 with a swept-back handle, and a faster lock time. But those are pretty scarce.

From 1921 to 1932 the Remington Model 30 remained a cock on closing action. After that they introduced the cock on opening feature.
I've heard that the cock on opening actions were subject to misfires in African climes.

PS
Just remembered every Model 30 I've seen had the dogleg bolt handle, some versions may have had swept handles.

[swheeler]

P14 or 1917 bolt body with handle altered, measure bolt face to determine which. P14 approx .540, 1917 .480

[kywoodwrkr]

Thanks one and all.
I compared it to a 1914 and a 1917 bolt and it is apparently a 1917 whose handle has been cut and rewelded. The downward angle is almost the same as original, so question why.
So, it appears I now have both a 1914 and a 1917 bolt which have been 'modified'.
1914 appears to have been heated and changed. This 1917 was cut and welded-it appears.
Who knows!
Thanks again, one and all.

[JHeath]

From 1921 to 1932 the Remington Model 30 remained a cock on closing action. After that they introduced the cock on opening feature.
I've heard that the cock on opening actions were subject to misfires in African climes.

PS
Just remembered every Model 30 I've seen had the dogleg bolt handle, some versions may have had swept handles.


What could the African climate specifically do to a Model 30 bolt?

[Multigunner]

Heat dust torrential rains etc play havoc with moving parts and can deaden primers enough that a firing pin slowed by congealed dirty grease won't set it off.
I haven't examined the Remington Model 30 other than holding one years ago, but from what I've heard the cock on opening conversion resulted in a weaker than normal firing pin fall. I've heard the same about commercial cock on opening conversion kits for the M1917. Might be nothing to it, but that's what I've heard. Best to keep the inside of the bolt scrupulously clean and only lightly oiled to be on the safe side.

Best I remember was that the cock on opening conversion had a shorter pin fall and if the standard M1917 firing pin spring was used the pin fall would be too light. A purpose made stronger firing pin spring was necessary for good ignition.

[TNsailorman]

I had a Model 30 Remington in 30-06 for over 30 years. I had it converted to a cock on opening with parts from Brownell's. I also put in an ejector spring conversion. Never a problem with the conversions ,no light firing pin strikes, nada. It is now in possession of my grandson and he loves it. It was the most accurate Remington I ever owned including the Custom shop, engraved Model 700 that I currently have for myself. I have heard from people for years about "weaknesses" of the 1917/1914/Model 30s but have yet to see any of them in person. Model 30's are fairly rare nowadays because people who own them won't give them up or ask tremendously high prices for them. In case you haven't figured it out by now, I love the Model 30 and wish I could find another one in excellent condition at an affordable price. I would give my custom Remington up in a heartbeat for a really good one. my opinion anyway, james

[JHeath]

I had cock-on-opening Model 30. The firing pin strike seemed robust enough and from what I remember of the bolt design I can't think of why it would be weaker than e.g. a Mauser or Springfield. Possibly my spring had been replaced before I owned it. BTW the rifle was smashingly accurate even after I bobbed the bbl at 19" due to corrosion near the muzzle. Sighting it in at 200yds with the stock Lyman aperture sight, my first 3-round group was under 2". With Speer 200gr j-words, didn't try boolits.

I read that the Model 720 had a faster lock time (the 720 was a refined Model 30), which might indicate that Remington felt necessary to modify the firing pin and or spring.

A-Square made outstandingly 1917-based African rifles. Were they cock-on-opening? I bet an A-Square expert would have a definitive answer re the 1917/Model 30 bolt design.

[Multigunner]

This example is a cock on opening conversion.
http://www.gunsinternational.com/A-Square-Hannibal-416-Rem-Mag.cfm?gun_id=100333926''
Does this look like the same bolt handle as in the OP?

The mail order conversion kits were called a "Speed lock", with short pin fall due to using the firing pin retractor cam rather than cutting a deeper cam surface to move the pin back as far as other actions designed as cock on opening from the beginning.

Lock time would be reduced by use of a stronger faster spring coupled with shorter pin fall.
If the bolt has a new cam surface cut into and cocking piece designed to match, it then it might work better than those conversions.

The Mauser and Springfield have fairly long heavy pin fall to be more reliable under rough conditions. The unaltered M1917 would also be highly reliable.
A harder than normal primer cup could make the difference.

Here's the Dayton traister Speedlock conversion.
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/bolt-parts/cocking-parts/cocking-pieces/enfield-cock-on-open-kit-sku240150017-25037-13492.aspx
With cocking piece and spring.
Apparently these require that the trigger be replaced as well.

[TNsailorman]

I had forgotten about that trigger replacement, but yes, I did have to replace the factory trigger with a Dayton-Traister trigger, the only Dayton-Traister trigger I ever bought, I always used Timmney before and after. The action on my Model 30 was one of the smoothest actions I ever had. I only saw one A-Square and it was an impressive rifle to say the least. It was sitting in a rifle shop waiting for the owner to pick it up, so there was no being way of being able to handle it. I don't even know what caliber it was.

[swheeler]

There is no such thing as a 1914(Pattern 14) or a P17(M1917)