Veteran Casters, take a look at my lead....

[Dannmann801]

Hey fellas, my name's Dan and I'm a noob at reloading and casting.
Dedicated hunter and fisherman, I decided to concentrate a bit more on my shooting this year. (That was before the current craziness started at the end of last year.) As the sportsman's situation has changed a bit, I decided it was time to move reloading up to the top of my to-do list, and quickly learned that I should be casting bullets as well. (Got the reloading press up and running, I'm good there.)

As far as casting goes, I haven't been able to find any bullet molds yet, so while I'm looking I thought I'd go ahead and start making ingots to feed my new Lee 4-20 pot. I went to some of the tire places around where I work and struck out on wheel weights, but was able to buy some scrap lead at a recycler. Using a propane burner and an old cast iron skillet, I turned out my first batch of ingots last weekend
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So here's a question (first of a few)- I got two separate size muffin tins (large and small) thinking that when I had lead in the pot that the smaller ones might melt faster and allow me to keep the pot at a consistent level easier and allow more flexibility about how much to add if'n I didn't want to put a big ingot in. But now I'm thinking that I might have screwed up 1) because instead of just being able to put them in and rest them on the bottom of the pot by hand, I'll have to be careful to lower them in the pot with a ladle to avoid splashing and 2) that I'm probably overthinking it and it doesn't really matter, a big ingot will melt the same as a smaller one. But mostly I'm concerned about spashing lead around. Am I overthinking it?

So here's the next question - I did another batch this weekend, and the very last pour that I did, the surface of the ingots were hazy instead of shiny. One of the last things I melted was a flat plate about 1/4" thick that seemed a little stiffer than the other lead I'd been working with, but melted down just fine. After I skimmed the dross off (it had kind of a goldish tint to it) when I poured it in the mold some of that goldish tint was evident on the face of the ingot (in the second picture)

here's the shiny vs hazy pic
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here's the one with the goldish/copper tint
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Here's my questions - 1) Am I right in thinking that the difference between the shiny and hazy finish is a function of different temperature? Or maybe some contaminant? 2) What do you think that copper streaking is?

Thanks in advance for your input -

[dmclark523]

I'm not exactly a veteran caster by any means, but I believe the 'streaking' could very well be grunge or dirt left over that was not fluxed or ladled out. A lot of my own ingots look like this on the face.

As far as shiny versus hazy ingots, I've found that my wheel-weight lead looks hazy in ingot form, while my pure lead (stick on wheel weights, roofing lead, ect) is shiny and looks really bright. This could be
due to the purity of the lead itself? I could be wrong...

[Dannmann801]

Note about safety considerations - after reading numerous posts this week about hot lead flying out of pots, before my second round of pouring I looked at possible problems with my setup and figured I should protect the hose from the propane tank to the burner, so I draped an old leather apron over it, thinking that if hot lead were to land on that hose it would burn thru it quick-time and then I'd have a real problem on my hands. The leather is about 1/8" thick - will that be enough to protect the hose, or should I fashion some other guard for it (perhaps a piece of sheet metal)?

Or again, am I overthinking it?

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[dmclark523]

Note about safety considerations - after reading numerous posts this week about hot lead flying out of pots, before my second round of pouring I looked at possible problems with my setup and figured I should protect the hose from the propane tank to the burner, so I draped an old leather apron over it, thinking that if hot lead were to land on that hose it would burn thru it quick-time and then I'd have a real problem on my hands. The leather is about 1/8" thick - will that be enough to protect the hose, or should I fashion some other guard for it (perhaps a piece of sheet metal)?

Or again, am I overthinking it?

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That's actually a pretty cool idea. Even though I have never done this, you can never be to careful! Nothing wrong with that...

[Dannmann801]

Just a couple more pictures and I'll leave it be -

See how speckled/flecked the surface of these ingots are?
What are the potential causes?
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Some of the scrap that I had was in the form of rings - and some of the rings had a little bit of metal wire in it (almost like a steel wool). Then I came on a large piece that had a bunch of wire sticking out of it. Haven't melted that one yet, and will cut away the wire before I do. Does anyone recognize what these rings might have been in their former life? Scrap guy didn't know...
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[Dannmann801]

I'm not exactly a veteran caster by any means, but I believe the 'streaking' could very well be grunge or dirt left over that was not fluxed or ladled out. A lot of my own ingots look like this on the face.

As far as shiny versus hazy ingots, I've found that my wheel-weight lead looks hazy in ingot form, while my pure lead (stick on wheel weights, roofing lead, ect) is shiny and looks really bright. This could be
due to the purity of the lead itself? I could be wrong...

I'll tell you one thing for sure DM....I really really like that roofing lead, that's for sure!

[canyon-ghost]

Most of my clip-on wheelweights are hazy or frosted when cast. The pure lead that I have looks like chrome. Copper or gold coloring can be metal or paint, have some epoxy-painted lead that turned purple! As far as the rings go, some kind of plumbing ring or such. I really don't know.

[runfiverun]

that fuzzy stuff is lead wool
i'd bet you have lead joints there, and the lead wool was used to fix a seep.
usually a gold haze is from tin.

[hickfu]

Yup that lead is from old cast iron plumbing pipes! It is pure lead so around 5 to 6 bhn. I get it all the time when my brother in law brings the pipes he takes out of the ground. I break up the pipe and get the lead out.

Doc

[Dannmann801]

So it sounds like I should just throw the whole thing in and melt it, wool and all, no worries...

[runfiverun]

yep, if it by some weird chance is steel wool it will just float.
expect a bunch of gunk on top of the smelted alloy.

[SchuetzenMiester]

I have been casting for at least 40 years. I use those muffin tins for ingot molds too. My ingots look a little hazy like that. They are 20;1 lead/ tin. I think the temp makes them hazy or not. If yio cast with too hot a lead or mold, you will get frosty bullets; ie, sort of hazy.

[SchuetzenMiester]

I forgot to mention I cast for years using a propane burner. I never had a problem with led splatter hurting my propane hose. I'm sure a large spill has the potential for big trouble!

A drop of water will empty the lead pot instantly. No drippy roofs over the casting area!

[338RemUltraMag]

I forgot to mention I cast for years using a propane burner. I never had a problem with led splatter hurting my propane hose. I'm sure a large spill has the potential for big trouble!

A drop of water will empty the lead pot instantly. No drippy roofs over the casting area!

This is total bull... A drop of water on a surface of molten lead will just sizzle away.

Now for the truth... NEVER EVER EVER add a wet chunk of lead to a molten pot, THAT will help you empty the pot mucho fasto!

[dbosman]

Some of the scrap that I had was in the form of rings - and some of the rings had a little bit of metal wire in it (almost like a steel wool). Then I came on a large piece that had a bunch of wire sticking out of it. Haven't melted that one yet, and will cut away the wire before I do. Does anyone recognize what these rings might have been in their former life? Scrap guy didn't know...

Based on having worked as a builders helper.
The wires should have been oakum. Cast iron sewer pipes can't be glued or soldered together, and you want some flex in case the ground freezes. The normal size end of a sewer pipe was inserted into the belled end of the previous pipe. The joint was intentionally wide. Oakum was pushed into the joint and packed down with a bent packing chisel. After several layers were packed down, molten lead was poured on top, to seal the joint and protect the oakum. Some folks used steel wool.

I've not watched this, but it purports to be packing and leading a joint.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NednRKyy2Dg

[merlin101]

This is total bull... A drop of water on a surface of molten lead will just sizzle away.

Now for the truth... NEVER EVER EVER add a wet chunk of lead to a molten pot, THAT will help you empty the pot mucho fasto!

Or use a green piece of lumber to stir the melt with! I used a wood slat that was laying around and when I submerged it in the melt I heard a sizzle and saw some bubbles, at that point I took off running slat and all! I was very lucky.
To the O/P the ingots look pretty good, the little black specks is dirt that wasn't skimmed off when fluxing. Try useing a DRY piece of wood to scrape the bottom and side of the pot when fluxing then skim. Also the "flakes" might be from your ingot molds, are they teflon coated? If so that teflon needs to be burned off and when its all gone you will have cleaner ingots.
You might want to keep that pure soft lead seperate from the clip on weights. That pure (softer) lead is GREAT for slugging barrels and casting round ball for muzzle loading or just softening up a harder alloy.

[Dannmann801]

Or use a green piece of lumber to stir the melt with! I used a wood slat that was laying around and when I submerged it in the melt I heard a sizzle and saw some bubbles, at that point I took off running slat and all! I was very lucky.
To the O/P the ingots look pretty good, the little black specks is dirt that wasn't skimmed off when fluxing. Try useing a DRY piece of wood to scrape the bottom and side of the pot when fluxing then skim. Also the "flakes" might be from your ingot molds, are they teflon coated? If so that teflon needs to be burned off and when its all gone you will have cleaner ingots.
You might want to keep that pure soft lead seperate from the clip on weights. That pure (softer) lead is GREAT for slugging barrels and casting round ball for muzzle loading or just softening up a harder alloy.

Well then, I'll just take my propane torch and burn out the insides of those muffin tins - that should do the trick, huh?

And guys, I appreciate all the feedback. I'm feeling a little better about the variances in the ingots. I'm guessing that my ingots are pretty clean but will have varying degrees of purity, and will probably turn into good bullets nonetheless. And that as I progress I can learn how to make everything just so by adding varying amounts of tin, etc, but it's gonna be a long learning curve. That's ok...honestly, I'm feeling like there's something theraputic about melting and pouring lead. And frankly, it's just plain fun (that might be newbie excitement).

And a piece of GOOD news - one of the guys here posted that "Track of the Wolf" had a couple of Lee molds in stock - I was able to latch on to a Lee mold for .30 cal round nose/flat point 113 grain bullet that I could use for my 30-30. Not exactly what I wanted, but something to practice with until I can get the molds I want. It shipped today [smilie=w:

[SchuetzenMiester]

This is total bull... A drop of water on a surface of molten lead will just sizzle away.

Now for the truth... NEVER EVER EVER add a wet chunk of lead to a molten pot, THAT will help you empty the pot mucho fasto!

Say it how you want to, but I instantly had 15 pounds of lead on my leather glove! I do not recommend trying it just to see how it woks ;-) !!

[dmclark523]

Say it how you want to, but I instantly had 15 pounds of lead on my leather glove! I do not recommend trying it just to see how it woks ;-) !!

I have to agree with Josh here... A drop of water isn't going to explode in your lead. It'll sizzle at best and spatter on the inside of your pot.

All due respect to you sir, but I'd love to see a video of this drop of water emptying your pot.

OP, +1 for not putting any wet lead into your pot. Dry it out first!

[SchuetzenMiester]

I'm not going to do it over to get a video ;-) I was adding tin that had been melted by water drop method to form pellets that would be easy to weigh on a loading scale. This happened 6 months or a year after the tin had been melted. There had to have been a drop of water encapsulated in one of the pellets. I had the tin in the palm of my gloved hand. As I opened it over the pot, I instantly had 10 to 15# of lead on it with a few splatters getting past. I suspect the water expanded as the tin pellet melted when it struck the surface. That is the only explanation I have ever come up with for what happened.

[Alan in Vermont]

I'm not going to do it over to get a video ;-) I was adding tin that had been melted by water drop method to form pellets that would be easy to weigh on a loading scale. This happened 6 months or a year after the tin had been melted. There had to have been a drop of water encapsulated in one of the pellets. I had the tin in the palm of my gloved hand. As I opened it over the pot, I instantly had 10 to 15# of lead on it with a few splatters getting past. I suspect the water expanded as the tin pellet melted when it struck the surface. That is the only explanation I have ever come up with for what happened.

And THAT is a whole world different than an errant drop ON TOP of the melt.

[SchuetzenMiester]

I stand corrected and am happy the risks are lower than I have thought.

[338RemUltraMag]

Once that single drop gets UNDER the surface it expands 3,000x and that can help empty a pot! Most of the time the water is trapped in or on a piece of lead tin or flux.

[canyon-ghost]

The errant drop on top of the melt is no lightweight either. I've had it pop hard enough to put lead in my hair and on my glasses. I was water-dropping bullets and had a drop of water on the bottom of the mold that went straight for the molten lead. It won't empty the pot but, the explosion to steam can put enough lead in the air that you won't want to be standing over it.

Peeling lead dots off your face will teach you to run the mold bottom across a towel every time.

[BubbaJon]

I washed a bucket of ww lead Friday, laid it out to dry all day Saturday in the sun. Put it back in dry bucket Sunday, started smelting Monday night. After 2 or 3 rounds into the pot I hear a ZAP! ZAZZLE! POP! and some splatters go flying. NEVER assume the weights are dry is my new motto. BTW - my solution was to put the next round in a pan to sit on top while melting the current batch. Helped to hold in the heat, preheat the next weights and DRY them.

[SchuetzenMiester]

Since tin melts at 450 F, I don't know how it could carry the water under the surface, but if that is how it works, it must have. Nearly all the lead came out of my pot and ended up on my gloved hand. It is easy to get rid of a 10 to 15 pound glove ;-) Just swing it down. I couldn't get rid of it fast enough! Glad I had the glove on. Might have lost the use of my hand ;-( There were a few little splatters on me and my glasses, but no severe injury. I always preheat hot enough to dry most of my lead before I add it even if it has been indoors for years ;-)