range report .678 rb need advice

[mike_kaleigh]

i finally found the rounds i made in my basement 2 weeks ago, so i took them out. i have .678 rb, aa hulls, red aa wads, 21 grains of unique (i believe, i need to check notes). i have one nitro card with buffer under the ball. And i am shooting them out of an 870 with a skeet choke .005. they were shooting 1050 fps but felt like they were faster? well they were shooting high not big deal. but the petals were cut on the wads. the base of the wad was ok, and the base of the cup but the petals were cut. the ball in the wad fits threw choke fine, but was trying to figure out why the petals had issues. the only thing i can think of is that the buffer was forced between the ball and and petals when fired and made the fit to tight. what do you guys think? i do not have a cylinder bore choke but need to get one. also i did not shoot for accuracy because i only made 5 rounds and some went threw the crony so i was thinking what changes i need so i was going to roll 25 up for the weekend. i am making an order for midway if you guys think a diffrent wad would work better with aa hulls.
thanks

[pipehand]

I have been using Federal 12S3's with a .125 Nitro wad and 1.6cc's of cornmeal buffer and 18 grains of Hodgdon's International Clays. A load of 25 grains of Unique that worked pretty well with the Lee Slug with no buffer absolutely trashed the wads. Will have to go back with buffer and Unique to see if it works well. With the Int'l Clays and the buffer, the wads look good, and accuracy is limited by the operator. BTW, I'm using a cylinder bore, but I tried an I/C and didn't get cut wads. I will be trying the Waa12 white wads soon, with the Int'l clays, and Unique again.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Mike, lets back off a bit, please do this test first with RB only in wad and try pushing it backwards:
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Wadslugfitinbarrelcopy.jpg (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/Dantebeowulf/media/Wadslugfitinbarrelcopy.jpg.html)
If the fit requires 6 to 10 lbs to push it then the fit is good, your RB is sitting too low in the wad
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/678Roundballwadfitjpg.jpg (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/Dantebeowulf/media/678Roundballwadfitjpg.jpg.html)
try raising it by adding more .125 nitro cards to raise the RB like this:
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/575and600RBinwadbig_zps8e8a92e5.jpg (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/Dantebeowulf/media/575and600RBinwadbig_zps8e8a92e5.jpg.html)
like in the picture on left, now go ahead and load them 21.5, 22, 22.5, 23, 23.5 gr gradually while watching for pressure sign's like this:
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/CCI209Mprimersignscopy.jpg (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/Dantebeowulf/media/CCI209Mprimersignscopy.jpg.html)

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/PrimercratermarksonFedExpandercopy.jpg (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/Dantebeowulf/media/Extractormarkscopy.jpg.html)
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Extractormarkscopy.jpg
Fold crimp and skip the buffer, have fun at the range and practice and be sure to post pictures so we all can share your experiances!

"No man is a failure who is enjoying life at the range."- Blazing Sabots

Best regards,
Ajay
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
Blazing Sabots, LLC
www.facebook.com/BlazingSabots?ref=hl

[pipehand]

Ajay, what is that CSD wad, and where does one find them? How do you get the top of the ball to the right height for a crimp? I have a .600" mold, and have tried it as a single ball in a 12 gauge, but I had to cut up two different wads to do it and add a nitro card.

I casted a hundred or so .678" RB's from my Lyman mold today. 15 to the pound really eats up the lead.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello PipeHand, the 12 ga CSD wads are 7/8 Oz ones from BPI and you need to cut the wad at a certain hight to let the RB stick ou like in the picture, a drop of epoxy or glue will turn it into a Non discarding, one piece Sabot.
Based on the powder you use you can use any one of these wads below to make up your fold crimp index:
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/OPwadscopy.jpg (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/Dantebeowulf/media/OPwadscopy.jpg.html)
I use this to measure how much I need to fill to get my crimp index right!
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/IMG_1567_zps77efd01d.jpg (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/Dantebeowulf/media/IMG_1567_zps77efd01d.jpg.html)
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/IMG_1568_zpse5a362df.jpg (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/Dantebeowulf/media/IMG_1568_zpse5a362df.jpg.html)
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/IMG_1569_zps48bcbd06.jpg (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/Dantebeowulf/media/IMG_1569_zps48bcbd06.jpg.html)
Simple tools to make life easy and precise!
Have fun.

"No man is a failure who is enjoying life at the range."- Blazing Sabots

Best regards,
Ajay
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
Blazing Sabots, LLC
www.facebook.com/BlazingSabots?ref=hl

[longbow]

Mike:

I have had very poor results using Win AA Red wads! Not sure why because even when fit is good they tend to suffer damage. My very subjective opinion is that the plastic in the Win AA reds is softer than other wads... even other Winchester wads. I have Winchester white, yellow and pink and all are harder/tougher plastic the the red. I also have Pacific Versalite wads and again they are a harder/tougher plastic than the Win AA Reds.

Generally , I find Win AA Reds with damaged or sheared petals even when fit seems good where the other wads do fine. Also, I have found many with blown edges on the gas seal. It just seems to be a softer plastic material. I do not know but have thought that since they do seem so soft that possibly some of the damage occurs during line up through the forcing cone. I have recovered a lot of slugs that seem to indicate that forcing cone damage can occur even to bore size solid lead slugs.

Your load of 21 grs. Unique is quite low so this should not be pressure or velocity related.

The choke won't likely be helping things but at 0.005" I doubt it is doing much damage either.

Best to start where Ajay is recommending and test your fit. For my gun and loads I actually find that a "just easy sliding fit" works best for me. I haven't checked actual force required but I am betting less than Ajay's 6 lbs minimum. That is what works for me anyway.

Also, check that you do not have petals sticking above the ball. They can get damaged opening the crimp if they stick up much above the ball. Check Ajay's posts as he has excellent photos of setting ball/slug height in wad and trimming petals if required.

I have not used the Federal wads as they are not available locally and I have lots of others but several people have posted good results using the 12S3's as Pipehand also reports above. If you can get them they are a good bet to try.

If you have access to different wads, they are cheap enough to buy bags of several different kinds to see what works best.

Longbow

[pipehand]

Am only using the 12S3's because they were what worked with the Lee slug- tough thin petals. If I can get the RB's to work well with the 12WAA wads, that would be great as I'd only have to stock one kind of wad. I'm using the 12WAA for a 9 pellet .311" buckshot load.

One of the things that may either help or hurt, is that the "cushion leg" or "crush section" of the Federal wads is pretty stiff. Also, it was designed for a straight walled hull, and I'm using them in AA-HS hulls. Lets just say that I don't have trouble with powder migrating past the wad.:p

I went through the trouble of trimming the 12S3 wad petals back when using the Lee Slugs, and I'm not sure it made that much of a difference. Will give it a shot with the RB's. It's amazing that for over 700 years we've been shooting round balls in smooth bores, and we're still experimenting!

[mike_kaleigh]

ajay, i found out my problem, i did not notice but my wife was cleaning up wads that my German Shepard tried eating and she mixed the claybusters with the real aa red wads. so it was was two thick because of the ridge in them but i noticed i only have 30 to 40 real aa reds. so i really need to buy wads anyways, so from post 12s3 seem like they should work. also ajay do you think i should use buffer or not. maybe i could save a step.

also my dog is pure breed and 10 months old and dumb. if i am reloading metallic, and i drop a lead bullet she will run across the basement to eat the darn thing. she has eaten 2 bullet and one 9mm brass case that i know of.

[mike_kaleigh]

12s3 or 12s4??????

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Mike, your Remington usually run .729" and my chart was made using .732" diameter barrel, I would opt for Fed. 12S-4 a bit harder plastic.
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Fitinwadandbarrel_zpsdc595415.jpg (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/Dantebeowulf/media/Fitinwadandbarrel_zpsdc595415.jpg.html)
You remind me of my Princess:
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Untitled-2A_zps3f790ace.jpg (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/Dantebeowulf/media/Untitled-2A_zps3f790ace.jpg.html)
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Untitled-1_zps111f5733.jpg (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/Dantebeowulf/media/Untitled-1_zps111f5733.jpg.html)
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Untitled-3_zps8913d3eb.jpg (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/Dantebeowulf/media/Untitled-3_zps8913d3eb.jpg.html)
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Untitled-4_zps3bbda7d1.jpg (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/Dantebeowulf/media/Untitled-4_zps3bbda7d1.jpg.html)

"No man is a failure who is enjoying life at the range."- Blazing Sabots

Best regards,
Ajay
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
Blazing Sabots, LLC
www.facebook.com/BlazingSabots?ref=hl