Lead boolit ban in CA? OMG a condor died

[Phoenix]

FYI

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/28/california-lawmakers-weigh-first-statewide-ban-on-lead-ammo/?test=latestnews

[WILCO]

How convenient.

[OeldeWolf]

convenient in timing, and the individual condor involved.


disturbing links:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/19/obama-taking-executive-action-on-guns-after-senate-vote/?intcmp=obinsite

http://blog.aarp.org/2012/09/04/majority-of-new-jobs-are-low-wage-that-cant-be-good-for-our-retirement-savings/

gotta watch all areas. the inmates have gained control of not just the hospital, but the country.

[GaryN]

"The U.S. Geological Survey estimates that nationwide there are 400,000 pieces of lead shot per acre in wild game territory that can be eaten or washed into waterways, and that the 60,000 metric tons of lead fired off in 2012 is second largest use of lead behind storage batteries."

I would like to see the method used to come up with those numbers.

[Phoenix]

I hard a really hard time reading the article. It is full of so much complete BS. The USGS estimate is one of them.
I also know for a fact bullets are not the second highest use of lead. I do know that batteries are a HUGE increase over the number two.


and that the 60,000 metric tons of lead fired off in 2012

At the average weight of a bullet being 100grains (which is a very conservative figure)
9.24 billion rounds that is 9,240,000,000 rounds fired last year? Outside military production it is questionable that there is enough production to keep up with that demand.
I am guessing alot of that ammo was military and not even shot in the US. Making the statistic meaningless to the article.

If you really want to read something good. get the book 'how to lie with statistics'
http://www.amazon.com/How-Lie-Statistics-Darrell-Huff/dp/0393310728/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1367180955&sr=1-1&keywords=lying+with+statistics

That should be mandatory reading in high school. So people realize how suspect all use of statistics IS.

[wgr]

they need tougher birds

[oldred]

I suppose our forefathers who lived on food shot with lead bullets all died of lead poisoning then? I know the old timers faced a lot of ailments back in the day but I wasn't aware that lead poisoning was one of them, but then I doubt anyone else was aware of it either since it isn't true.

[km101]

" 400,000 pieces of lead shot per acre in wild game territory" This is TOTAL BS! You would have piles of lead laying everywhere. I seriously doubt that you would find that kind of coverage on a trap or skeet range! Much less "in wild game territory". This is just another blatant example of "twisting" or making-up numbers to fit your agenda. Just another example of the old saying "A lie can go around the world before the truth can get out the door."

Also an example of the three types of lies! There are lies, damn lies, and statistics!

[Phoenix]

"There is no safe level of lead for human consumption,"

Here is more. If that was true we would all be dead or maimed. Just visiting a tire shop would be deadly and osha would require respirators by the tire techs. Taking wheel weights off and blasting the bead edge with air is bound to put a few tiny particles of lead in the air. Not to mention there are trace amounts in most water. The list goes on.

[Swamp Man]

This is BS nothing but a way to try and limit ammo supplies to the public. 400,000 lead bullets an ac on hunting land,I don't think so there is 1,000 ac behind my land open for hunting and I'll bet you there is not even a dozen shots fired on a ac each year.

[nvbirdman]

Some of us are enviornmentally concious enough to go to the range and remove some of that nasty lead from the ground. I tip my hat to those concerned individuals.

[462]

It's junk science used to promote a radical agenda, and the media is too lazy to do anything more than go along with it.

The existing ban was based on what later proved to be biased and full of misinformation. However, the state legislature and Arnold didn't let the lies get in the way of implementing the ban.

[grimace1]

Unfortunately, I think we should all be ready for the **** to be pushed on the national level. Now that Congress has refused to impose gun control, a ban on lead bullets will be one of the actions Obama will be able to take without Congressional approval.

[xs11jack]

In every car with power steering, I have be told, there is a 9 or 10 lb. lead counterwieght. And, I suppose that they included the lead mined here in Missouri.
Jack

[garandnutts]

Trying to stay ahead of these politicians is like herding cats....
The liberal progressives are tossing so much stuff against the wall hoping for something to stick, and unfortunately some of it is bound to unless we all stay vigilant.

[TXGunNut]

Also an example of the three types of lies! There are lies, damn lies, and statistics! -km101

Smart man once said "Give me enough numbers and I can prove anything" and I know enough about numbers and stats to believe him. To come up with 400,000/acre all they had to do was find a low spot where a few pellets had somehow gathered, count all the pellets in a square foot (or even less!) and extrapolate that over a larger area, in this case an acre. All you have to do is find 10 pellets within a square foot and you've "proved" this allegation.

[firefly1957]

A) The reason condors and other vultures have so much trouble with lead is because they have extremely acidic digestion juices this kills the bacteria that would other wise kill them. So we can safely pass small amounts of metallic lead or even mercury because we do not have acid levels that high.

B) i will bet if you can find the information wind mills kill more condors then lead!

[10x]

So how do they know the lead comes from bullets.
There are other sources of lead in the environment.
Between 1923 and 1973 there was an average of 20 million tonnes of organically active tetra ethyl lead that went straight into the food chain. No one has ever measured the millions of tonnes of lead used in lead paint for hundreds of years as well. To single out bullets as a significant cause of lead poisoning in anything is disingenius and misleading.
Anther example of junk science and poor research used to promote an anti gun owner agenda.

[oldred]

In every car with power steering, I have be told, there is a 9 or 10 lb. lead counterwieght.

Uh, I don't think so but I wish it were true, that would be a nice source for casting lead. The only lead I know of in a car is the battery and wheel weights, never heard of a steering counterweight.

[.45Cole]

All you need to do to throw off the balance of these people is cite Leadville, Colorado. Place even has a college, which if everyone consumed lead as a child and had developmental challenges, well it wouldn't need a college then? Colorado produced *probably* more silver than all other states/territories and a major ore was galena, which is lead sulfide. All the mining towns have water in contact with this ore, and there are beavers, School of Mines, and irrigation utilizing this water. Aspen Colorado was a huge producer of silver, and well I guess maybe it did screw those people up (the Commifornia actors at least), but not the normal people. The ksp (or solubility) of lead in neutral water is miniscule (order of 10^-19). Let them eat that.

[Bad Water Bill]

And Commifornikatia is worried about 234 PREHISTORIC birds that should have vanished with the wolly mammoth.

Keep them in one of your many Zoos. Problem solved at much less expense.

If lead were such a deadly thing everything east of the Appalachian Mountains should have died off a long time ago. Over 500 years of RECKLESS dumping of lead would have poisoned every living creature.:evil:

[KCSO]

So this makes Missouri unsafe for humans? Seems like the whole state is lead about wherever you dig. I can see the people of the future entering their plastic bubbles to go outside their safe enviornments to view nature, then back to their cages again. I just came back from muzzleloading rendevous and I didn't do or eat one safe thing for 4 days.

[popper]

" 400,000 pieces of lead shot per acre in wild game territory" Probably close to true, that's 1300 dove loads, ~ 80# of lead. Sampled in heavy hunted area of course. " In November, one of the oldest condors in Central California died from lead poisoning after being found with tiny bullet fragments and a .22-caliber slug in his gullet that he apparently swallowed with a mouthful of meat." Let's see, quoted life span is 50-60 yrs, this one was 9. And they got rid of DDT that was keeping the population down. Hmm - this is the data that seems biased. I suppose the dinosaurs died from lead poisoning also. Is there a way to limit the 'active' span of Ca. Pols to say 10 minutes?

[dbosman]

Probably naive question, but I don't happen to know the answer.
Can muzzle loaders shoot anything other than soft lead? <-- Real question.
What will that cost the states in lost license fees? <-- Rhetorical question.

[Dannmann801]

Man, the Anti's are relentless .... don't they ever get tired of whining?
And I believe nobody gives a dang about a condor, it's about something completely different (control)

OMG, a condor died....priceless:popcorn: Love that thread title.

[Bad Water Bill]

Looks like we will have to tell the drug cartel on the Baja California peninsula they can only use copper bullets to murder folks from now on or the CONDOR POLICE will come after them.

[daniel lawecki]

Can,t we just give Ca. to Mexico.

[tonyc1234]

A lead bullet could protect your family! I believe humans are important and deserve protection as much as a condor.

[hithard]

234 well placed shots could solve this problem, stuff the last one and put it next to the passenger pigeon.

Then take the research and foundation money and give it back to the tax payer's.

[Bad Water Bill]

I wonder how many $$$ have been spent to keep 234 creatures that should have joined the EXTINCT list a million years ago?

[popper]

They all were in a zoo, then released back into the wild. So did the vulture choke on the 22?

[Gliden07]

Like others have said it has nothing to do with the Condor!! I bet Good Ole Dianne Feinstein will be watching this with baited breath!!

[Foxcatcher]

We delt with this about 4 years ago. There is actually an idiot dentist that pushed the agenda. He is a part of a falcon organization that beat the drum on lead bullets. He used his own Xray machines and "tests" to cause a stir that ended up with food pantries having to toss thousands of pounds of donated meat.

These phucs are trying their best to ruin a huge part of America. Would love to show that guy what lead poisoning is.

Don

[Bad Water Bill]

I remember his X ray pictures.

Only a complete idiot would not believe the meat was salted and VERY heavily.:evil:

Was he ever prosecuted for his falsifying information?

[SharpsShooter]

Do you think Condor taste like chicken? Any recipes? :-)

SS

[Sweetpea]

Do you think Condor taste like chicken? Any recipes? :-)

SS

I would bet they taste a whole lot more like a skunks a$$...

[popper]

Wonder if the Kalifornia condor (vulture) is related to turkey vultures? Ugliest stinking animals I've ever been around. Heard on the news a while back some hermit guy was interviewed by the LEO and asked how he survived for 20 yrs. "Condor!".
How much did we spend saving the snail darter?

[Bad Water Bill]

Throw in THE SPOTTED OWL as well.

The tree huggeres do not spend much to get these laws passed BUT the general public and the folks that OWN the property affected will go bankrupt trying to use their own land.:evil:

[otter5555]

Throw in THE SPOTTED OWL as well.

The tree huggeres do not spend much to get these laws passed BUT the general public and the folks that OWN the property affected will go bankrupt trying to use their own land.:evil:

the forest service just closed my favorite canyon on earth about a mile from my house. spotted owl domain

otter

[firefly1957]

I read a story last year they know it is not people hurting spotted owl numbers it is the more aggressive Barred owl that is driving their numbers down.

[quilbilly]

All you need to do to throw off the balance of these people is cite Leadville, Colorado. Place even has a college, which if everyone consumed lead as a child and had developmental challenges, well it wouldn't need a college then? Colorado produced *probably* more silver than all other states/territories and a major ore was galena, which is lead sulfide. All the mining towns have water in contact with this ore, and there are beavers, School of Mines, and irrigation utilizing this water. Aspen Colorado was a huge producer of silver, and well I guess maybe it did screw those people up (the Commifornia actors at least), but not the normal people. The ksp (or solubility) of lead in neutral water is miniscule (order of 10^-19). Let them eat that.
Almost anywhere there is silver, there is lead. It is a naturally occuring substance.

[TXGunNut]

Almost anywhere there is silver, there is lead. It is a naturally occuring substance.

Read somewhere that lead is often considered a byproduct of a silver mine. I didn't make it thru the geologist's explanation but understand that the two are never far apart.

[popper]

Like I said - condors have only 1 chick and the parents feed it junk and choke it to death. Really true and known by the biologist types.

[dakotashooter2]

The condors were on the downslide before the white man even got in that area. They are garbage eaters just like sharks. All kinds of garbage has been found in their stomachs. They are also terrible parents which is why 95% of the birds are reared in the zoo............