MakeMineA10mm
09-07-2007, 12:23 AM
Sorry this is so long, but I want to explain all the details to this design, both for clarity, and because this is potentially my first group buy. BUT, I think this bullet design will speak for itself, so if you have a 9mm, 38 Super, or any other 35-caliber that needs a good-feeding nose profile, read on.
After 25 years of casting, loading, and shooting 9mms in guns as varied as open-bolt MACs, MP-5s, Uzis, Stens, Lugers, P-38s, Berettas, Browning Hi-Powers, HKs, S&Ws, 1911s, Glocks, plus running across some historical information, I’ve come to what I think is the ultimate 9mm bullet. This design is intended to give flexibility in application/caliber, ease of handling/loading, and above all else – feeding reliability. 45 2.1 assisted with both advice and services in drawing this up.
The nose profile of Saeco # 115 was selected because it has successfully fed in every 9mm weapon I have tried it in, including my finicky Walther P-88C. (It has also fed in all the guns I mentioned above.) My best attempt at describing the nose profile on this bullet is that it is a “pointy round nose.” It is a VERY slippery bullet nose shape, which accounts for this bullet’s ability to feed in everything. See the design drawing from 45 2.1 below.
Sticking with the Saeco #115 design, we decided to leave the tiny step where the front driving band and the nose meet. For the body, I suggested to 45 2.1 that I would like a slightly wider and deeper lube groove with the square-cut bottom and tapered sides (to allow for easier dropping from the mould when casting). In addition, I asked him to widen the driving bands ever so slightly to give better bore-engagement.
For the base, I asked 45 2.1 to design a medium-length, gently-tapered bevel base, something similar to the bevel base off of Lyman bullet 356637. Why?
I believe nowadays a majority of people load auto-pistol rounds on progressive presses, because they like the high volume / high speed of loading. I have run across not a little frustration with loading small-cases (like 9mm) in these presses, because I’ve had to hold the bullet in alignment with the case as the round goes up into the seating die, or if I didn’t, the vibrations of the progressive press often causes the bullet to tip over. This results in either slowing me down (because I stop to correct it), or, if I don’t notice it, banging the bullet ogive or even front driving band against the bottom of the seater die messing up more than time... A great fix for this is to use minimal bell-mouthing (approx. .002-.003”), along with a long, gently-tapered bevel base on the bullet. Combining these two allows one to set the bullet into the case rather easily (since both the bullet base and the bell-mouth are working together for guidance), get the fingers clear, yet not have to worry about machine vibrations jiggling the bullet to the point that it tips over too far. (This also speeds loading, as your left hand can go for another bullet, instead of holding the bullet and case in alignment until they enter the seating die.)
All-up weight is intended to be 135grs, as I’ve found this to be a universal weight in the 9mm. It can be loaded subsonic, or supersonic. This weight was estimated around an alloy of wheelweights +2% tin. I’ve been loading 135gr Zero FMJs for a few years now, and this weight is by far my favorite in the 9mm. 9mm guns just seem to shoot this bullet weight really well, both in terms of accuracy and internal ballistics that are well-balanced for either recoil-operated or gas-operated semi-autos.
At the suggestion of 45 2.1, as-cast diameter is planned at .358, but we all know Lee’s propensity for variation here… Due to the variables with Lee’s tolerances only being bigger (by up to .003”), I think I will specify .357” or even .356”. Some other experienced honchos here have mentioned that most of the group buys coming in lately are around .002” over specified size. I know that there are people here with 9mms and 38 Supers with bore diameters as small as .354”, and there are also those with diameters as large as .358”, so I don’t think there is really any way to come up with a vote on a diameter, so let’s leave it that we’re aiming for .357”-.358”, which should make usable bullets for virtually everybody (some with sizing down) and leave this issue at that. (Also, keep in mind that the final actual diameter Lee makes and alloy you use may affect the actual weight and the as-cast diameter.)
My theories involved optimizing this design for the 9mm Parabellum cartridge, but for those of you who shoot 38 Super, 38ACP, 9mm SuperComp, etc., this bullet is ideal for you to the point of almost being better for you than the design is for the 9mm! The one thing this bullet doesn’t do is cut nice clean holes in paper, but if you’re shooting steel, plinking, or more worried about feed reliability than the shape of the hole in the paper, I think you’ll love this bullet, as it is unbeatable!
So, is anyone interested in piling on for a group buy?
I'll post a picture or two and the drawing from 45 2.1 ASAP.
After 25 years of casting, loading, and shooting 9mms in guns as varied as open-bolt MACs, MP-5s, Uzis, Stens, Lugers, P-38s, Berettas, Browning Hi-Powers, HKs, S&Ws, 1911s, Glocks, plus running across some historical information, I’ve come to what I think is the ultimate 9mm bullet. This design is intended to give flexibility in application/caliber, ease of handling/loading, and above all else – feeding reliability. 45 2.1 assisted with both advice and services in drawing this up.
The nose profile of Saeco # 115 was selected because it has successfully fed in every 9mm weapon I have tried it in, including my finicky Walther P-88C. (It has also fed in all the guns I mentioned above.) My best attempt at describing the nose profile on this bullet is that it is a “pointy round nose.” It is a VERY slippery bullet nose shape, which accounts for this bullet’s ability to feed in everything. See the design drawing from 45 2.1 below.
Sticking with the Saeco #115 design, we decided to leave the tiny step where the front driving band and the nose meet. For the body, I suggested to 45 2.1 that I would like a slightly wider and deeper lube groove with the square-cut bottom and tapered sides (to allow for easier dropping from the mould when casting). In addition, I asked him to widen the driving bands ever so slightly to give better bore-engagement.
For the base, I asked 45 2.1 to design a medium-length, gently-tapered bevel base, something similar to the bevel base off of Lyman bullet 356637. Why?
I believe nowadays a majority of people load auto-pistol rounds on progressive presses, because they like the high volume / high speed of loading. I have run across not a little frustration with loading small-cases (like 9mm) in these presses, because I’ve had to hold the bullet in alignment with the case as the round goes up into the seating die, or if I didn’t, the vibrations of the progressive press often causes the bullet to tip over. This results in either slowing me down (because I stop to correct it), or, if I don’t notice it, banging the bullet ogive or even front driving band against the bottom of the seater die messing up more than time... A great fix for this is to use minimal bell-mouthing (approx. .002-.003”), along with a long, gently-tapered bevel base on the bullet. Combining these two allows one to set the bullet into the case rather easily (since both the bullet base and the bell-mouth are working together for guidance), get the fingers clear, yet not have to worry about machine vibrations jiggling the bullet to the point that it tips over too far. (This also speeds loading, as your left hand can go for another bullet, instead of holding the bullet and case in alignment until they enter the seating die.)
All-up weight is intended to be 135grs, as I’ve found this to be a universal weight in the 9mm. It can be loaded subsonic, or supersonic. This weight was estimated around an alloy of wheelweights +2% tin. I’ve been loading 135gr Zero FMJs for a few years now, and this weight is by far my favorite in the 9mm. 9mm guns just seem to shoot this bullet weight really well, both in terms of accuracy and internal ballistics that are well-balanced for either recoil-operated or gas-operated semi-autos.
At the suggestion of 45 2.1, as-cast diameter is planned at .358, but we all know Lee’s propensity for variation here… Due to the variables with Lee’s tolerances only being bigger (by up to .003”), I think I will specify .357” or even .356”. Some other experienced honchos here have mentioned that most of the group buys coming in lately are around .002” over specified size. I know that there are people here with 9mms and 38 Supers with bore diameters as small as .354”, and there are also those with diameters as large as .358”, so I don’t think there is really any way to come up with a vote on a diameter, so let’s leave it that we’re aiming for .357”-.358”, which should make usable bullets for virtually everybody (some with sizing down) and leave this issue at that. (Also, keep in mind that the final actual diameter Lee makes and alloy you use may affect the actual weight and the as-cast diameter.)
My theories involved optimizing this design for the 9mm Parabellum cartridge, but for those of you who shoot 38 Super, 38ACP, 9mm SuperComp, etc., this bullet is ideal for you to the point of almost being better for you than the design is for the 9mm! The one thing this bullet doesn’t do is cut nice clean holes in paper, but if you’re shooting steel, plinking, or more worried about feed reliability than the shape of the hole in the paper, I think you’ll love this bullet, as it is unbeatable!
So, is anyone interested in piling on for a group buy?
I'll post a picture or two and the drawing from 45 2.1 ASAP.