860 or 5010 in 8MM

[oadad]

A friend gave me 1/4lbs of 860 and another of 5010 to see how I like it in my 8mm. First I used the 5010, Rem 185gr bullet, standard large rifle primer. I filled it to the base of the neck. felt like a big 22 -fun. Each case had/showed blow back all the way to the base of the case - signs of under pressure. Next the 860. Filled to the base of the neck, used a Lee 175gr cast bullet, std large rifle --- OH MY GOSH!! it went off with power and kick of a regular jacketed hunting round, maybe a little harder, grouped great at 200 yrds. The case filled the chamber - no blow back but the primer was flat as a pancake. This is the first time I have ever used these powders. Is this normal or am I doing somthing wrong??? Oh, I did not use a filler in any of the loads :confused:

[454PB]

I know nothing about loading for 8mm, but I have and use both WC860 and 5010. In my uses, I can tell no difference in their burning rate, they are both extemely slow burning. The only caliber I load for that comes even close to being over bore enough to ultilize powders this slow efficiently is a 7mm Remington Magnum. I do use them for reduced velocity cast loads in .308 Winchester, but always with magnum primers.

[nelsonted1]

860 is my go-to powder for non-hunting 30-06,8mm, 308, etc. I use it a whole lot- buy it by the 8lb jugs. I use 3 grains of 3031 on a standard rifle primer and a FULL case of powder to keep the powders from mixing. The reasoning is to bump up the pressure just enough to push out the unburnt powder. Others, more commonly I think, use magnum rifle primers to get a more complete burn.

It's cheap for sure. The reasons I like it is lack of recoil (I'm disabled so don't handle recoil well) and it is astonishingly accurate in my rifles. I shoot mostly cast bullets but the same above holds true for jacketed bullets. Some say it too slow but if one isn't hunting with the loads just crank up the sights a little

There is days worth of info to read on using 860, 872 and 5010 here. Do a search in the search function.

[Blammer]

oadad- sounds like you have a bit much powder in the case if your primers are so flat. I'd back off the charge some.

nelsonted1-so you're saying you use a duplex load? as in two kinds of powder in the same case?

[9.3X62AL]

Oadad--

Welcome to the board!

I've used WC-860 in the 8 x 57 Mauser with the same boolit you used--the Lee 175. I didn't get flattened primers or other high pressure indications, but do get the ball powder "boom" report--and some unburned powder kernels in the bore. Accuracy has been OK, but I don't care for the bore trash--and 16.0-18.0 grains of 2400 does about the same velocity with better accuracy and zero bore trash. The high velocity and pressure signs you are seeing are outside my experience in 8 x 57, 30-06, 6.5 x 55 with j-words, or 45-70 with IMR-4198 as a duplex booster. As Buckshot has posted previously--and my experience has confirmed--a full case of the WC-860 in the 6.5 x 55 (55.0 grains) under a 140 grain J-word gave 1894-spec velocity in my rifle's 22" barrel--2475 FPS.

Are you CERTAIN the powder is WC-860? Its behavior sounds more like WC-844, WC-846, or fast lot WC-852 (a moment of silence for its passing.......).

[oadad]

Thanks for the replys! 1st. no I did not use any duplex loads. My friend bought the powder last May from Hi-Tech ammo. The powder is in white one gallon bleach bottles. One is marked WCC5010, the other WCC860. The 5010 is BIG extruted powder, the other is small ball powder, not much bigger than regular ball powder. I think your right Hi-Tech made a mistake and gave him 844 or 46 and marked it 860 -WOW! Thank the goodness for large ring Mausers (I was using a Yugo 24/47). Well, can onyone suggest a starting load for 844 or 46 (they are like which regular powder?). Like Nelsonted1, I was looking for a cheap blinking round for the 8MM as well as the 308 & 3006. Like I said, 5010 - felt like a big 22, 860 like a regular jboolet hunting round

[Blammer]

glad to hear the NO on the duplex loads, i must have read it wrong....

if it was WC 844 and a full case I suspect he would not have a rifle left to shoot.

WC 844 is equivilent to H335 for the 223's.

[MT Gianni]

Oadad, I would back off the load 5% and try to find a chrono. Let us know how fast and it may be easier to track down how your lot of 860 burns. Gianni

[Maven]

oadad, I've used both WC 860 and IMR 5010* in the 8mm Mau. with very good results using 195gr. - 235gr. CB's, but there are certain things you need to/should consider. First, use LR magnum primers for both powders. Second, 46gr. - 49gr. WC 860 should burn very efficiently with the 175gr. Lee CB, but DON'T USE a FILLER WITH 860. Third, although IMR 5010 has approximately the same burning rate as WC 860, it can be quite dirty unless you use a filler. I use 48gr. with 195gr. CB's, but I'd recommend 46gr. - 47gr. 5010 and 0.3cc - 0.7cc (lLee dippers) of either powdered bran (bran through a coffeee mill) or poly- shotshell buffer. The latter is better, but also more expensive than bran (as close as your nearest supermarket). If you have a chronograph, check the loads with v. those without fillers as you should see a considerable improvement in the former. Lastly, store the loads with fillers with the primers facing you so that the filler doesn't migrate into the powder charge.

*IMR 5010 doesn't flow through powder measures very well. The Lee dippers (with a powder scale), on the other hand, are almost foolproof and about as fast as using a powder measure. You'll also find that 10 - 12 kernels of 5010 = 1 grain, so you can skip the powder trickler and use you hand to top off each charge.

[nelsonted1]

...Next the 860. Filled to the base of the neck, used a Lee 175gr cast bullet, std large rifle --- OH MY GOSH!! it went off with power and kick of a regular jacketed hunting round, maybe a little harder, grouped great at 200 yrds. The case filled the chamber - no blow back but the primer was flat as a pancake. This is the first time I have ever used these powders. Is this normal or am I doing somthing wrong??? Oh, I did not use a filler in any of the loads :confused:

No blowback is a question I wonder about (besides the primers). I always have black necks with 860 in my 8mm and every rifle I've used it in. Did your bolt lift harder than usual?

I also wonder about the powder you're using. Could your friend have mistakenly handed you the wrong powder? Call him, ask him for the lot # which should be on his jug and then call Hitech.

The words "OH MY GOSH!" should be referring to lack of recoil, low price and accuracy- not for recoil and flattened primers.

I have a .376 Steyr. Has a most impressive case. I shoot 860 almost exclusively in it. I use the minimum 3031 load for hunting since 860 isn't quite peppy enough. At dusk I pull out the full loads with 300 grain bullets, put in ear plugs and muffs and fire it through the tubes the DNR makes us use to keep the noise down. THe tube lights up around my face and shoulders, throws my hat back and I get a blast of heat in my face. It's unpleasant but the war dance and hollering the other shooters put on is worth it. If it wasn't for 860 and 872 I wouldn't be able to shoot it.

TED

Wonder if something has happened to Buckshot. He usually sticks his oar into every discussion of slow powders.

[oadad]

Guy's, I want to thank you for all your input. We will call Hi-Tech Ammo and check on the lot number. It will take me a few weeks to check all this out and try some news loads using 46gr of 860. This will take me a while because my oldest son (USA) just recieved word that he going to Iraq after just returning from a 3 year tour (1 in Afghan) Germany. So I'm taking some time off to spend with him before he leaves. I'll post my results/questions under a different thread.