Loud Mouse Fart Loads with 3 gr of reddot still to loud

[Survival Bill]

11111

[35remington]

Don't confuse subsonic with low noise. With that amount of Red Dot and that weight bullet you're likely subsonic. Just not as quiet as you want. Subsonic can still have a largish bang. Red Dot is not "too fast" as the fast powders generally produce low noise as compared to larger amounts of slow powders, which may not burn too well at low pressures.

Primer alone will stick the bullet.

[ironhead7544]

Try 2 to 4 grains of Unique with a heavier cast bullet. Not familiar with Red Dot but I know people are using it for subsonic rifle loads. If you get a crack it is probably supersonic, I would guess.

[Jeffrey]

It's still going to go POP. I burn 3.2gr BI under a 150gr LEE in a 30-30, about as loud as a .22 but with a deeper tone. Good groups at 50 yards, but hits about 12" below full power loads at same distance.

[Survival Bill]

I will try a heavier boolet and see if that makes a difference I have some 165gr CB kicking around I can test...
Will also try 2gr and 3gr of reddot and see what happens....

[Jeffrey]

You know already that 3gr will push the boolit from the barrel. If you wanted to further reduce the charge, I would say load down in .1 or .2 grain increments. Load 3 to 5 cartridges of each charge weight to check for grouping as well as function. If they pattern instead of group they're good for nothing. VERIFY boolit exiting the barrel. Bring a suitable cleaning rod or brass rod to drive the slug from the barrel should one become stuck. The '06 is a rimless case. I've heard that reduced charges in rimless cases need to have the primer flashhole drilled to a larger size. Those cases must be marked to prevent their use in full power loads. This thread has 5 pages of 30-06 mouse fart load information. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?152431-Recipes-for-quot-Mouse-Fart-quot-Loads-in-30-06&highlight=30-06+gallery+loads

[Multigunner]

The Large Rifle primers make a pretty good bang even without any charge or bullet. I was very much suprised by how much noise they make when firing a few primers in bad cases before tossing them.

[MT Gianni]

The key to mouse fart loads is a heavy for caliber bullet, the 165 is an average for caliber boolit. I would look for 185 gr+ for quit loads.

[Lonegun1894]

I use a Lee 170gr FPGC (without the GC) and push if with 2.7grs of Unique for my garden loads for the .30-06. The bullet actually weighs 178grs and I fire this out of a 26" barreled rifle as it is quieter than my 22" '06. The same load works great in my .308 and my .30-30, but due to the shorter barrels and smaller cases it is slightly louder in the shorter rifles with the smaller chambers. Like has been said above, small amounts of fast powders, heavy bullets, and I will add the longest barrel, or at least largest barrel capacity you have. For example, my 22" barreled H&R .44 mag pushes a 240gr boolit with the same powder charge and is slightly quieter than the 26" barreled .30-06 due to the larger bore volume. Both are great, and useful, but one is slightly quieter than the other. But my neighbors don't complain about either, and I really don't think they even realize that the noise is gunfire, even though one keeps offering to get together and shoot pelletguns in his backyard since he frequently hears me shoot my "pelletgun". That gives you an idea of my noise levels, but my accuracy falls apart at about the 30-35yd mark, even though the boolits at this weight can still do some serious damage even at this very low velocity, so you do need to be very careful just as if you were using a full power load.

[BK7saum]

I'm sure you are well below subsonic. I load 4.4 grains of American select behind 110 j-words. In a 300 whisper/blackout. They are about 975 fps. Through a suppressor they are REAL QUIET. But unsuppressed they still have a pretty good pop.

American select is real close to red dot. I am shooting more powder on a smaller case and am still subsonic.

You might be real close to sticking a bullet.

Just a fee observations. Good luck.

Brad

[Jim]

"Developing subsonic loads for centerfire rifles" (http://floydpics.wordpress.com/developing-subsonic-loads-for-centerfire-rifles/)

[nekshot]

I have taken my 30-06 down to .7 gr with trail boss. If I remember I was using lighter boolits. You must check barrel every time just to be sure it is clear and it is dirty. Noise is a loud poof. If the boolit is not out you get a nice little poof at the bolt when you lift it to eject. I am sure this is all very bad advice and maybe stupid but its better than drinking and driving.

[MT Chambers]

get some diablo .30 cal. pellets made for the .30 cal. airguns, and load them with only primer power.

[famdoc2892]

A quick question, the sticky thread on "mouse fart" loads talks about a light-for-caliber boolit (93-gr.?), while here we're talking about a heavy-for-caliber boolit...? Has anyone tried both with the same load to compare?

[nekshot]

yup, when I went under a grain with trailboss heavier boolits stuck in barrel. Lighter than 150's cleared.For real quiet loads I like the lee 113 flat point or whatever they call it.I am talking real small charges here now, so don't mess with em if you want to confidently exit the barrel every time!

[phonejack]

I am going to HAVE to try that !

[Geezer in NH]

If I want a super quite load I will use a can. But for just quite is what I want to find.

[Groo]

Groo here
Load heavy soft cast boolets.[ in 30-06 that is like 200 to the 300blackout 240 gr cast]
Try trailboss powder.

[scattershot]

Subsonic and supersonic refers to the speed of the projectile, not the noise of the explosion to get it moving. As others have said, try those 165 grain boolits. The 30 caliber airgun pellets are interesting, too. May have to try that!

[Shooter6br]

Lever Gun Performance Studies (http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm) low end loads Also "gallery loads" Ed Harris article Military cast Harris (http://home.comcast.net/~gavinsw/guns/castbulletmilitaryrifle.pdf)

[RU shooter]

As others have stated go with a heavier bullet . I played around some with these low vel./ low noise loads best for me in a 24 inch barrel in 30-06 was 2.5 gr bullseye and a 185 gr bullet very low noise . At 2 gr bullet stuck in the barrel about 3 inch from the muzzle.

[Clark]

A 30-06 does not have enough bore volume to use even one grain of Red Dot, and keep muzzle pressure below one atmosphere above ambient [threshold of super sonic gas escapement]

To be BB gun quiet with a 30-06, you need the case filled with metal with only a flash hole tube going from the primer to the case mouth. A soft Lead ball on top of 1/2 gr Red Dot and you can have the high peak pressure and high expansion ratio to get 400 fps and BB gun sound.

It is not easy.

It is always much easier to use CB shorts in 22 rifle and go for the brain shot.

[Horace]

In a 303 savage 99 i use 5 grs red dot with a 150 plain base rcbs boolits about 950-1000 fps

[badgeredd]

The key to mouse fart loads is a heavy for caliber bullet, the 165 is an average for caliber boolit. I would look for 185 gr+ for quit loads.

Right there is the ticket for low noise loads. By using a heavy bullet one assures ALL of the powder is burnt in the barrel and the velocity will be subsonic. I use 1.7 grains of Bullseye in a 32-20 like cartridge with 150 grain bullet out of a 20" barrel for very quiet loads.

Edd

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It is the total energy delivered to the bullet that determines velocity, and I can't imaging that 3gr.of anything (with a large powder space reducing peak pressure) would be supersonic.

The report is determined by the pressure as the bullet leaves the muzzle. With a fast powder that may have fallen quite low, but a small amount of the slow powder used in conventional loads may still be producing copious amounts of gas. I would avoid heavy bullets for this application. We can assume, at normal velocities, that velocity doesn't affect the rifling twist required to stabilize a bullet. But this breaks down at extremes. I found that the 8x60R Portguese round's 250gr. bullet was stable at 1800ft./sec., but would tumble at 1200.

[bangerjim]

Primer-only will NOT work! Even with hot melt glue boolits. I tried a 28gn cast HMG boolit with primier only and it got stuck in the barrel. I shoot all my pistols with primer only and HMG with great success.

So...........I put 1.6gn of Titegroup in and added Dacron wadding. Now I was cooking with gas. Fairly quiet and shoots well in an 06. Added a 1/4" steel slingshot ball in the mold and cast more HMG. The weight gives better flight. Took load to 2gn. Still quiet but not silent as you seem to be trying for. Lots of fun to cast and shoot.

I have found those very light loads of powder need a tuff of Dacron to keep the powder back against the primer for full combustion.

I only drill out the flash hole on my 45LC's as I use them in a revolver and if the primers back out, the gun is stuck!

banger-j

[leebuilder]

Been loving the low velocity Red Dot and Unique loads found here. Lots of fun in milsurps, i am sure they are or close to subsonic. They are not much louder than a 22. Subsonic and quiet loads are similar but two different loads i think heavy boolits is the key. I found below 5gr i got stringing and different amounts of report. Never went lower in powder wieght since.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Primer-only will NOT work! Even with hot melt glue boolits. I tried a 28gn cast HMG boolit with primier only and it got stuck in the barrel. I shoot all my pistols with primer only and HMG with great success.


banger-j

That is just what I would have expected. The primer contains high explosive and is very powerful, but much shorter in duration than the burning of any powder. I once experimented with an unloaded case in a revolver and a piece of about .004in. copper sheet in the cylinder gap. Even a small pistol primer domed and ruptured the copper. But for a bullet to proceed down a rifle barrel takes time - much longer than in a revolver, when very light loads or only the primer are used. It is more like the motion of a golfball, hit a single blow before it begins to accelerate, than a conventional bullet. The friction of the pistol barrel may not stop it, but the friction of the rifle will.

[clearwater]

I wanted to make some subsonic rounds for my 30-06 so I loaded up with 3gr of reddot thinking and reading here that they would be subsonic um no they are not still a good crack to em is the problem the reddot to fast a powder for subsonic rounds what powders and loads have you used that ended up being subsonic I am using a 113 grain boolit I just wanted a subsonic round for rabbit or squirrels or is all I need the primer to do it?

When you start messing with the extreme ends of velocity, you should get a chronometer. They are cheap these days.
Keep you out of trouble and help you pick the most consistent loads.

[leeggen]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?152431-Recipes-for-quot-Mouse-Fart-quot-Loads-in-30-06
If you want mouse fart loads for 06 read the above thread. Larry has a good load, which I use and my 4 and 5 yr old grand kids love shooting it also. Very low noise and light boolits, save on lead, and does a number on rat size animals.
CD

[Geezer in NH]

Easy answer, pay to have your barrel threaded. About 60-80 bucks by M60 Joe. Next buy a can pay the $200 dollar stupid as it is tax and get a Suppressor. You will get Hollywood quite with cast lightweights. Or keep beating your head against the wall. I prefer to just keep shooting and paying the stupid tax

[Clark]

The noise is when the escapement gas from behind the bullet transcends from supersonic gas to sub sonic gas and propagates a wave of amplitude 2 Atmospheres and trough 0A [threshold of cavitation].
A 24" 22 rimfire barrel has enough bore volume to keep 0.45 gr of powder BB gun quiet.
A 22" 45/70 barrel has enough bore volume to get the following results:

0.6 gr Bullseye .....287 fps........ quiet
0.7 gr Bullseye .....384 fps........ quiet
0.8 gr Bullseye .....354 fps........ quiet
0.9 gr Bullseye .....388 fps........ hollow sound but quiet enough
1.0 gr Bullseye .....441 fps........ sounds like a loud pellet gun, but
no blam
1.1 gr Bullseye .....418 fps........ sounds like a loud pellet gun, but
no blam
1.2 gr Bullseye .....536 fps........ sounds like a very loud pellet gun,
but no blam

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/45-70handirifleSteelinsertcasefillerwithprimerhole155 gr458RBcastbullet400fpsBBgunlike19pounds14pounds.j pg
These were shot with 1 gr Bullseye, Red Dot works too. As long as the bullet does not hit something hard, the rifle is so quiet, you can shoot his buddies too.

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/4570RPbrasscrosssectionedlengthwiseandmarkedat1ini ntervalsfromthewebandinsertdiacalculatedwithspread sheet7-20-2012.jpg

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/4570insertmadeofAluminiumand332ndairplanedrilltode capprimer7-28-2012.jpg

The powder charge makes the noise.
The trick to high velocity with low noise is to get the efficiency up by getting the peak pressure up and the expansion ratio up.

But if you seat a cast bullet down in the case, compressing the powder against the primer, you will get high velocity and low noise, but lousy accuracy.
The jump to the lands is too far.
So we need a filler or a very short cartridge.

The 30-06 has been made with fillers.
Yes other people besides me figured all this out independently a long time ago.
But it is a lot of work to make filled 30-06 cases.

[303Guy]

But it is a lot of work to make filled 30-06 cases.Epoxy works. It's a bit of a mission to get it done but it does work and can be made repeatable.

[HarryB]

Hi all, I'm new to cast boolits and am wanting to load some reduced loads in 303Br with CBs for plinking. I've read a lot about 10gr of Unique being a universal load but can't get any here in Australia. ADI powder AP70N is it's equivalent. Has anyone Down Under tried reduced loads with AP70N in 303Br, say 10gr or less behind 180 or 200 gr CBs.
Asking for advice and opinions. Cheers

[enfield]

So if low case volume and a heavy boolit is the way to go, has anyone tried something like a 30 cal barrel with a short chamber cut to take something like a 32 S&W case in a rifle.

[BNE]

You know already that 3gr will push the boolit from the barrel. If you wanted to further reduce the charge, I would say load down in .1 or .2 grain increments. Load 3 to 5 cartridges of each charge weight to check for grouping as well as function. If they pattern instead of group they're good for nothing. VERIFY boolit exiting the barrel. Bring a suitable cleaning rod or brass rod to drive the slug from the barrel should one become stuck. The '06 is a rimless case. I've heard that reduced charges in rimless cases need to have the primer flashhole drilled to a larger size. Those cases must be marked to prevent their use in full power loads. This thread has 5 pages of 30-06 mouse fart load information. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?152431-Recipes-for-quot-Mouse-Fart-quot-Loads-in-30-06&highlight=30-06+gallery+loads

As for drilling out the primer pocket, I read this also. However, I am too afraid that I will get these mixed with regular 30-06 rounds. I tried them with out drilling out the flash hole and saw absolutely no difference. Your mileage may vary...

[BAGTIC]

Whether a case is rimmed or rimless should not make any difference.