44man

[bowfishn]

I just got a chance to test out some advice from 44Man, using standard primers with 44 mag loads and H110 behind 300 grain HPGC boolits.
Well the results were good, the group dropped almost in half, the load was stiff and I will not list it because of that. But all six shots under .800" at 25 yards. I was herkin and jerkin a bit on the trigger on a couple shots, 5 shots were less than .625" and I am sure if I was not in such a hurry because the range was swamped today, things would have been better. I will go back and try again at 50 yards with several groups with loads reduced .5 grains at a time.
I will next have to try the Hornady titanium nitride New Dimension sizing and expander die.
Don't mean to puff your head up to big but I have to let you know my results.

[41 mag fan]

Please divulge the load data you used.

[Bwana]

"I was herkin and jerkin a bit on the trigger on a couple shots, 5 shots were less than .625"

So you are saying that a couple of shots that "should" have opened the group were "herked and jerked" into the group?

[41 mag fan]

"I was herkin and jerkin a bit on the trigger on a couple shots, 5 shots were less than .625"

So you are saying that a couple of shots that "should" have opened the group were "herked and jerked" into the group?

I think I've done that before!!! Even closed my eyes and the groups got smaller!!

[Changeling]

You would be well advised to listen to anything/everything 44Man/Jim has to say! He has been maligined by a lot of jealous people here who couldn't stand the fact that he was basically "Right" on everything he has to say!
At the same time, he has a lot of friends and followers! I am definitely one of those people!

If you do not want to divulge your loading data for whatever reason, DON'T, no one has a right to know if you don't want them to.

[jonp]

I'd be curious as to the load not that I have a need for extra magnum loads. I read an article by Mr. Linebaugh that someone referenced on this site as to how he got to the peak 45 Colt loads and found it interesting.
Is it as far over max as what Linebaugh was doing with the Colt?

[ghh3rd]

Jim gave me a lot of good advice when I got my .44 Ruger SBH. I started doing really well with 310 gr and 265 gr boolits.

[Thumbcocker]

I followed his advice on how to practice with my .44 ahead of deer season. 50 yard heart shot with iron sights on an 8 pt shooting unsupported. I never fully appreciated the importance of how you practice.

[felix]

Monster loads are mostly more accurate than mouse loads when using powders meant for "blown" performance. Loads become too hot when the shooter flinches or when brass over expands. Should any Ruger break open or crack its cylinder or top strap, the gun's shooter is not suited for any hobby dealing with guns. 45 Colt revolters are notorious for destroying brass with any load approaching that which would be termed low-end-high-performance. ... felix

[44man]

Thanks fellas, you know everything I learn is for everyone to try.
SAFE loads are OK to tell, never anything other. Nothing I shoot is over max. Some calibers will be close but never over.
I have two rules, safety first, accuracy next and nothing else.

[44man]

I'd be curious as to the load not that I have a need for extra magnum loads. I read an article by Mr. Linebaugh that someone referenced on this site as to how he got to the peak 45 Colt loads and found it interesting.
Is it as far over max as what Linebaugh was doing with the Colt?
No, I am sure the loads are well within limits. I will NOT promote overloads of any kind.
The real truth is that accuracy does not mean as fast as a gun can shoot and most of my loads are slower. I do lose a little with standard primers in the .44 over magnums but what is important?
The .45 Colt is an animal that is tamed with heavy boolits far below max pressures. Yes, Ruger only loads that should not be used in the smaller guns. Ruger is confusing to me with the CA stuff and different frames and cylinders for the .45.
Yet my .45 loads might still be safe in the smaller guns but I will not go there.
The .44 mag is different yet does not need high velocity or pressure. Just because the gun is stronger is no excuse to push it.

[44man]

Monster loads are mostly more accurate than mouse loads when using powders meant for "blown" performance. Loads become too hot when the shooter flinches or when brass over expands. Should any Ruger break open or crack its cylinder or top strap, the gun's shooter is not suited for any hobby dealing with guns. 45 Colt revolters are notorious for destroying brass with any load approaching that which would be termed low-end-high-performance. ... felix
100% true. No revolver should be taken to the limit. I get upset when a guy wants to know how fast he can shoot. I get upset when a guy brags about how fast his gun is. Throw the chrono in the trash.
Work slowly to accuracy and STOP even if the book says 2 more grains.
But a few insist on going well over max, don't include me.

[jonp]

I am just curious about the load as the way felix made it sound was that it was a very hot load. I also have no use for earth splitting blast and fireballs not to mention the wrist breaking recoil.
"Only an accurate gun is interesting"

[44MAG#1]

I've used standard primers with H110/W296 for years along with CCI 350's and Fed 155's and knew standard primers were good primers to use with that type of powder back when I started reloading in 1970 or there abouts.
At the time Remington21/2's.
I've experimented with mild, medium and hot loads too and seem to think that mild to medium to a tad under full power is the best depending on cartridge/bullet/powder combination and I learned that long before I even heard of a home computer.
Funny how things come full circle so the young must learn what the old already know.

[bowfishn]

"I was herkin and jerkin a bit on the trigger on a couple shots, 5 shots were less than .625"

So you are saying that a couple of shots that "should" have opened the group were "herked and jerked" into the group?

Yeah that could have been, but I was checking through a scope between each shot and when I knew I had pulled a bit it showed up in the group. When I felt a good shot it remained one hole so to speak.

Todays testing was with the MP 300 gr HPGC mold that has 3 crimp grooves, the crimp groove that allows for the largest amount of Case capacity really has no data available. Only data is based on a lesser case volume. I went to the point that I had a compressed load, which is a grain more than the highest point tested last year. The best group with the mag Primers was with 1.5 grains less than the max used. The highest load used was not the most accurate but it was not the worse either, what it gives me is a point to drop back from 1.5 to 2 grains for what I will use as max loading. The load I tried with standard primers was with the load that was best with mag primers and it was an eye opener. No loads tested showed problems with over pressure with the SRH I was using, and all empties fell from the cylinder with a gental push almost falling out on there own. Although I have not been shooting cast for as long as most of you I have been reloading and working up loads for rifles and handguns for over 40 years. I think of coarse 44man and some here have been loading for as many years as I have been alive.

[cbrick]

While I have bumped heads with Jim a time or two, and while long range revolver has for many years been the majority of my loading, shooting & experimenting and have had a fair degree of success when Jim speaks revolvers I for one sit up and pay attention. He is a true asset to this forum.

Rick

[44man]

I have worked loads many, many times with mag primers but never found an accuracy point in the .44. My load has worked in every SBH, SRH and Hunter, my friends new Hunter, out of the box shot so well he was getting 1/2" groups at 50 yards just sighting in his Ultra Dot. My old SBH has a very hard time doing that and 3/4" is about the best but it has near 70,000 rounds through it now and the cone edges are rough.
When I work loads with 296 I go 1/2 gr at a time from starting to accuracy and groups will tighten and 1/2 gr more powder will start to open at the same rate they got smaller. So with a 300 to 310 gr, 21.5 gr is best and 22 gr will be the same size as 21 gr and get larger if I add more powder. I have never found a need to work 296 or H110 in tenths of a gr.
Going to the .45 Colt I still use a Fed 150 but the WW primer shoots very good. The 155 will open groups even if I work loads.
When I get to the .475 and JRH, standard primers open groups and I must use the Fed 155 for accuracy. I use the 155 in my 45-70 BFR with 4759 also.
Converting the .454 to a LP primer has shown a Fed 150 will ignite every 296 or H110 load from starting to max but again, the case size works better with a 155.
It might be strange to hear but a Fed 150 will ignite every load of 296 in the .500 JRH but the 155 is the best.
The .500 S&W will work with the 155 and a standard LR primer and I have not done enough work yet to see if one is better. My friends S&W has open sights and at my age it gets too hard. I really hate the red insert in the front sight.
Going beyond the primer are the dies and case tension. You will not tell a difference in primers as quick if dies are not making perfect loads. In fact you might get failures or squibs. The wrong primer is then a crutch.
The revolver needs a total package. Pay serious attention at the loading bench and soon you will out shoot many rifles at any range.
I want to see happy shooters.

[41 mag fan]

Thanks Jim for the info you've posted. Always enjoy reading what you post, and when we was pming each other awhile back. Been thinking of getting out the 44's again and playing some more with them.
Just got too many calibers of different guns!!!

[Recluse]

100% true. No revolver should be taken to the limit. I get upset when a guy wants to know how fast he can shoot. I get upset when a guy brags about how fast his gun is. Throw the chrono in the trash.
Work slowly to accuracy and STOP even if the book says 2 more grains.
But a few insist on going well over max, don't include me.

+1 and words after my own heart, attitude and philosophies.


While I have bumped heads with Jim a time or two, and while long range revolver has for many years been the majority of my loading, shooting & experimenting and have had a fair degree of success when Jim speaks revolvers I for one sit up and pay attention. He is a true asset to this forum.

Rick

My only disagreement with Jim has been--and probably always will be :)--over lubes. But in the grand magnanimity of the universe of guns, reloading and casting, that is but a blink of the eye. I count myself in the class of successful graduates whose .44 loading and shooting has improved because I was smart enough to pay attention to what he writes.

:coffee:

[cbrick]

My disagreement with Jim came with the FA fiasco. I am so happy he dropped that and now discusses what he knows & does so well . . . Long range revolvers & boolits. Gotta love a true wheel gun guy.

Rick

[44man]

My disagreement with Jim came with the FA fiasco. I am so happy he dropped that and now discusses what he knows & does so well . . . Long range revolvers & boolits. Gotta love a true wheel gun guy.

Rick
Yeah, I will always regret that.
But it shows the quality of our members, I was kind of forgiven. My thanks!
Many of us grew up with westerns and there has never been a more beautiful gun then the Colt SA, too rich for me but the Ruger came along.
I owned many double actions too but had to sell the S&W's and my SRH along with rifles but you will never pry away my SA's.
Then I have always loved the 1911, never owned one but when a kid I made a perfect one from wood. I used oxblood shoe polish on the grips. I have shot hundreds and built up custom guns for people.
I am indebted to Sam Colt, Bill Ruger, S&W, Elmer Keith, Browning and Magnum Research. Can I add Freedom?, yes I will.
Just imagine how poor life would be without revolvers!
Imagine how poor life would be without the wonderful friends right here!
Thank you Rick, my friend. Thank all of you, I feel humbled.
I have to add Felix and I don't think I could shoot as good without his lube.
Me and Recluse might go around a little but a lube will change how a gun shoots. Just testing because every caliber is different.
Hey Recluse, don't make me use Alox! [smilie=s:

[subsonic]

A big Plus One on Jim being a great fellow that will bend over backwards to help a stranger out.

He has certainly helped me and encouraged me to learn some things on my own.