I was banned from "We The Armed" for supporting the .25 ACP.

[gunfan]

One of their staff shot at a cheap knock-off toy flying disc. The bullet ricocheted and bounced of his chest. He then sold the pistol, believing that it wasn't good for anything.

The usual catcalls and old, worn out, "I'll take your .25 on with a stick" stuff ensued, and I was banned. Bear in mind that these are a bunch of old troglodytes that believe every old wife's tale that is spun around the campfire.

There are no fools like old fools. It is a forum best avoided.

Scott

[Bwana]

There are a few like that everywhere it seems.

[Salmoneye]

You do realize, I now have to go there just to laugh?

[Rio Grande]

I prefer the .25acp to the .22lr.
More likely to work! I see many dud .22's at the range.
More likely to feed also.
And now the .25acp is better as you can cast boolits and reload....you can't hardly buy .22lr.

I'd buy a .25acp rifle if there was such a thing.

[phonejack]

I just "surfed " thru their forum. I bet they wear black bdu's to the range .

[ofitg]

John Browning must be turning in his grave.

[JWFilips]

There isn't anything wrong with the .25 acp ( especially with the cast ranch dog boolit) as long as you realize it is an "up close & personal" defense caliber......So don't go practicing with it a 5 yds! They weren't call "vest Pocket Pistols" for no reason. Temple, Throat or groin at Point Blank will slow a BG down enough to get out of a situation....Remember a pointed stick is an excellent weapon when wielded by someone who knows when & how! It is just how you prepare

[gunfan]

I didn't have the heart to tell them that they were mocking John Moses Browning's "waltzing distance" pistol. These people are still under the erroneous impression that soft lead 40 grain bullets at 650 fps possess superior penetration power to 50 grain FMJ bullets travelling at 750 fps. (these people aren't too strong in the mathematics/ballistics department.) This was precisely why JMB created the little .25!

A hot .25 ACP load that Bryce Migllivray developed, consisted of 2 grains of unique behind a 51 grain Remington FMJ bullet. From a 2.5" Beretta Model 20, 950BS or Jetfire, the round leaves the barrel at 933 fpe and generates 99 fpe. Personally, I believe that this load will work on the throat, eyes, mouth and neck.

But then what do I know? ;)

Scott

[wv109323]

There was an article that I read a while back that said that one well placed shot to the assailant's torso or head stopped his aggression 95% of the time regardless of caliber.
The study did caution that the data on .25ACP and some of the smaller .32's was statistically insufficient due to the number of incidents involving those calibers.
The study did include .22LR.
I see the problem as being the quality of some of the low end blow backs pistols.

[gunfan]

There was an article that I read a while back that said that one well placed shot to the assailant's torso or head stopped his aggression 95% of the time regardless of caliber.
The study did caution that the data on .25ACP and some of the smaller .32's was statistically insufficient due to the number of incidents involving those calibers.
The study did include .22LR.
I see the problem as being the quality of some of the low end blow backs pistols.

Quite true. The Raven, Phoenix, Cobra and other die-cast, zinc-framed pistols, while reliable, tended to have barrels that didn't seal as well as the Colt, Beretta, Browning, or new PSA "Baby Browning" pistols from Aspen, CO.

I'd be willing to gamble that the new PSA pistols would give the Beretta Model 21 A an excellent "run for the money!" Don't you think?

Scott

[Dale53]

I read an account from a reliable source that told of a shop keeper confronted by two strong arm assailants in his store. They had hold of him, and he managed to bring is .25 ACP to the fray and put a single shot to each one's chest. The miscreants were hit in the heart, dropped instantly, and died. The shopkeeper was not charged. That tells a pretty good tale, to me...

It would not be my first choice but neither would I bad mouth someone who chose it. That is pretty much a demonstration of MUCH ignorance.

FWIW
Dale53

[gunfan]

The point I was trying to make with the .25, is that of concealment. One can hide that PSA, Colt, Browning or Astra Cub just about anywhere! The flat, solid steel pistol can, properly loaded, deliver quite a punch.

Works for me!

Scott

[ebner glocken]

I just read that entire thread. I won't be joining that forum anytime soon. You may have been banned but you didn't loose much. If you really want to stir up some poop there tell them your favroite HD gun is a .22 then mention it's a FN 57. I'm guessing the majority of those there have probably not heard of such a creature much less fired one.

Ebner

[Mk42gunner]

While I might not want to carry a .25, just who really wants to get shot with one? Remember, this round was developed before penicillan.

Dang near anything is better for defense than bare hands.

Robert

[35remington]

As gunfan says the low cost zinc pistols are reliable....and they tend to run oversized in the barrel. My .380 Bryco runs .362" in the grooves and I have taken to using nearly pure lead roundnose bullets in it to slug up the bullet after a fashion with quick powders yet still feed. As such it will hold about 5 inches at 25 yards which I think isn't horrible and quite usable. It is reliable. It penetrates. That's what it should do as a pistol.

What nonusers of the 25 ACP forget is the most important characteristic a pistol must have is penetration. A hole in something, especially CNS, is potentially effective, and a 50 FMJ at 800 to 850 fps has penetration, enough to reach the vitals of probably all but the morbidly obese.

For that the 25 will work, and can be effective. Anybody wanna bet I don't have enough penetration to reach the spine, heart, brain, punching through the sternum while so doing? If you take that bet, you'd lose. The 25 does quite well and I have tested it for such adequacy compared to other calibers in penetration in reputable pistols that attain this velocity. Not on humans, no, but in a relative sense in penetration media such as wet phone books against alternatives.

[rintinglen]

In 1984, while on patrol in Wilmington, California, I came across a Hispanic male who was limping around, cradling his right arm with his left. Each step he took, the blood in his right shoe made a sucking noise. He had been shot in the right hand, fore arm, bicep and shoulder, the right thigh, and the right ankle as he had attempted to hide behind a lamp post from the fellow he picked a fight with. Yeah, he was still ambulatory, but he couldn't have won a fight with a sick puppy at that point. There were 6 25 ACP cases on the ground. Maybe not the most powerful gun ever made, but a magazine full of those little devils will ruin someones day.

The late Jeff Cooper told the tale of a would be suicide who supposedly shot himself in the temple, staunched the bleeding, then went back to a party before expiring. Maybe so, but a woman who shot herself in the temple in a Los Angeles parking lot died right there with her eyeball bulging from its socket. I, for one, would prefer a 25 to a hatchet.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I'd love to have a Baby Browning, a friend had one when I was a kid and we shot a whole box of ammo thru it one day, and not one malfunction. We didin't understand the concept of close combat at the time but still knew the little thing would kill you dead.

Well made pieces of steel they were.

Why do you think Ruger and Kel-Tec .380's are so popular now. Sure they are more powerful but there are no other small pistols that are reliable or even available.

If Browning or Colt was still offering these gun I guarantee they would be selling.

Randy

[gunfan]

Maybe so, but a woman who shot herself in the temple in a Los Angeles parking lot died right there with her eyeball bulging from its socket. I, for one, would prefer a 25 to a hatchet.

Yep, that ".25 in the temple" put a crimp in her plans that afternoon.

I'm not banking on the .25 being "something special" because it isn't. It is, like it or not, still smaller than anything else available. This is why people find it so attractive. Couple this with the fact that,

a) It's a center fire round (read: reliable ignition)

b) FMJ means that it will penetrate,

c) concieved for use in shorter barrels,

d) Semi-rimmed (easier feeding.)

JMB's genius is plain to see in the cartridge.

Scott

[gunfan]

I'd love to have a Baby Browning, a friend had one when I was a kid and we shot a whole box of ammo thru it one day, and not one malfunction. We didin't understand the concept of close combat at the time but still knew the little thing would kill you dead.

Well made pieces of steel they were.

Why do you think Ruger and Kel-Tec .380's are so popular now. Sure they are more powerful but there are no other small pistols that are reliable or even available.

If Browning or Colt was still offering these gun I guarantee they would be selling.

Randy

Randy:

PSA (of Aspen CO) is currently building the "Baby Browning" in all sorts of iterations (aluminum frame, all stainless steel, gold-plated, etc.) Check their website and revel in the fact that the smallest browning lives on to this very day.

Scott

[429421Cowboy]

Can't see what you're missing, seemed like mostly mall ninja's and losers to me, the kinda lowlifes that would probably tell you that lead bullets blow guns up and shouldn't even be let near your guns unless they are hard enough to cut glass.
Oh well, it was funny to see how hot the one guy was getting about Extreme Shock ammo being the best thing to carry since canned beer and dry toilet paper.
Happy to have you here, sometimes we must stray away from here to see how polite, respectful, helpful and generally awesome our little family is here!

[gunfan]

While many of us have knoiwn people to shoot at "resilient" targets, I can't see how someone could aim at an object that they thought wouldn't be penetrated by even a slow-moving bullet.

Oh well, no great loss. It's good being among sane, rational people.

Scott

[Trey45]

We do not bash other forums on this forum, Period. If this type of thread happens again, infractions will be issued.
I am locking this thread.