Thinking of ordering a Mold from Accurate Molds

[hylander]

My rifle likes the LEE C312-185-1R
I size them to .311 because my rifles throat is .310
So how does this sound ?

31-195R
Body Diameter: 0.311 (+.0015, -.000)
Bullet Weight: 195 grains
Gas Checked: Yes
Intended Firearm: 1903A3
Special Notes: Bore ride diameter .301 or .302

[hylander]

Any input ?
Is there a better option for a bore rider ?

[knifemaker]

If you size to .311, you might ask Tom about having a mold that will drop at .312 before sizing and see what he reccommends for your rifle.

[turbo1889]

My rifle likes the LEE C312-185-1R
I size them to .311 because my rifles throat is .310
So how does this sound ?

31-195R
Body Diameter: 0.311 (+.0015, -.000)
Bullet Weight: 195 grains
Gas Checked: Yes
Intended Firearm: 1903A3
Special Notes: Bore ride diameter .301 (+.0015, -.000)

Fixed that for you, his tolerance range is 0.0015" not 0.0010" so he can't guarantee to hit 0.301 to 0.302 just slightly too narrow of a window.

Make sure you select the alloy you are using or the closest thing in his drop down list to what you are using. He adjusts the tolerances for the alloy you select so if you ask for a mold to drop 0.311 (+0.0015 -0.0000) from typemetal alloy and then you cast with WW alloy instead it may not hit the tolerance range you specified because the alloy itself can make that much difference. I usually specify WW alloy and then if I want the boolit a little bigger I can always spike my alloy with a little more tin and antimony to push the diameter up a thousandth of an inch or so.

Tom is a master craftsman and he will do his best to give you what you say you want. Just be sure you really want what you think you want.

[hylander]

Fixed that for you, his tolerance range is 0.0015" not 0.0010" so he can't guarantee to hit 0.301 to 0.302 just slightly too narrow of a window.

Make sure you select the alloy you are using or the closest thing in his drop down list to what you are using. He adjusts the tolerances for the alloy you select so if you ask for a mold to drop 0.311 (+0.0015 -0.0000) from typemetal alloy and then you cast with WW alloy instead it may not hit the tolerance range you specified because the alloy itself can make that much difference. I usually specify WW alloy and then if I want the boolit a little bigger I can always spike my alloy with a little more tin and antimony to push the diameter up a thousandth of an inch or so.

Tom is a master craftsman and he will do his best to give you what you say you want. Just be sure you really want what you think you want.

Thanks,
I put .301 or .302 because I' not sure yet which I want it to drop closest to.
I will specify WW for the reasons you mention.
I just wish he could make a RN in place of the .18 FN

[turbo1889]

Well, if you really, really, really want a round nose tip and you are brave enough to risk bunging up the mold there is a way to do that:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?100420-Mold-Modification-Turning-FN-into-RN-with-Ball-End-Mill-Cutter

The reason why all of Tom's molds have at least a 0.18" flat on their tip is because of the tool he uses to cut them on his CNC lathe which is as far as I can tell a combination of internal thread cutting and boaring bar micro-cutting tools and he can't use a smaller tool then that 0.18" or he will get tool chatter that will wreck the mold cut. I think theoretically one could set-up for a three tool cut (he is using two tool cut with a cutting tool change at the base of the nose as far as I can tell) with the third tool being a spoon to finish out the nose profile to a round but that is pretty hard to do consistently I would think in a mass production environment using a digital manufacturing process like he does with all the custom designs he services.

[PWS]

I got this design for a Ruger '06 with slightly worn rifling at the leade. Spec'd the body at 0.310" and the bore ride nose at 0.3030" max. It drops 0.3110" on the body and 0.3025-0.3030" on the nose. I haven't had a chance to do much load development yet but the first three worked great!

Sized 0.310" in RCBS LAM II, WCWW alloy
10gr Herco =>1250fps, 1.8moa, no gas check, White Label Carnuba Red on check shank only
15gr Herco =>1600fps, 1.2moa, gas checked, WLCR on check shank only
25gr H4895 =>2000fps, 1.1moa, gas checked, both grooves WLCR

Can't go wrong with a well fit bullet from an Accurate Mold!!

[hylander]

PWS: Good to here.

What do you guys think overall is more accurate, RN or FL

[turbo1889]

PWS: Good to here.

What do you guys think overall is more accurate, RN or FL

Depends a lot on the velocity your going to be pushing. My understanding of the situation based both on research and on my personal experience is that at sub-sonic velocities the RNFT (Round Nose Flat Tip = a round nose with a small flat on its very tip) is king of the accuracy game but everything changes once you go super-sonic. Once your super-sonic for maximum accuracy you want a mainly pointed nose shape where the angle of the nose point is close to the super-sonic shock wave angle off off the tip of the nose for most of its flight path to the target (which at any significant range is going to be a compromise because the angle changes as the boolit looses speed in flight). The shape of the very tip of the point doesn't matter so much if the boolit is going to be in the high super-sonic range for its entire flight path (full power jacketed loads out of a modern high powered rifle at normal deer ranges) but if the boolit is going to be in the lower end of the super-sonic range or even more importantly if its going to pass through the trans-sonic range (slow down to below the speed of sound) before it hits its target then having the tip be a hollow point gives the best accuracy and a respectable but not too big flat on the tip isn't far behind the hollow point.

That is by no means gospel truth and as I said that is what my research has told me and I have seen that most (but not all) of the time that is how it has worked out in my own experience as well.

Following that logic for any gun that shoots a cast boolit with sufficient muzzle velocity to be consistently in the super-sonic zone (most rifles and magnum handguns unless your loading low) that would mean a TC nose shape would be your best bet and a more pointy longer TC nose (Example = AM#45-275B (http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-275B-D.png)) for higher velocity super-sonic loads and a short squatty TC nose (Example = AM#59-550M (http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=59-550M-D.png)) for lower velocity super-sonic loads. And just on accuracy considerations that does work very well

BUT, many box magazine repeater type guns either of the semi-automatic or the bolt variation don't feed TC shaped boolits smoothly into the chamber and the edge of the flat on the nose will often get caught on some protruding square edge inside the guns action. So with many guns even though a TC shaped nose would probably give the best accuracy you have to settle for some kind of radius nose unless your willing to shoot the gun as a single shot hand loading each cartridge. That's the problem I had with the mold I modified in the thread I linked to above. It should be noted that the boolit can still have a flat tip instead of a round tip but the sides leading up to the nose often need some radius curve to them instead of being a straight sided cone to keep the edge of the flat on the tip from catching in the guns action and not feeding smoothly. Almost all of the "Ranch Dog" boolit designs are excellent examples of using the radius on the nose to keep the flat on the tip from causing feeding problems.

Now for a clearly sub-sonic gun (for example 45-ACP) hands down best choice for accuracy and good clean feeding in my opinion is some sort of RNFT boolit shape (Exmaple = AM#45-215B (http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-215B-D.png)) which can even be a hollow point if desired with the hollow point just taking the place of the flat on the tip of the nose and just maintain the outer round nose profile. Usually something between a 1R to 2R curve profile works well often with a slight taper lead in to the curve off of the front driving band.

For your caliber of boolit though if ordered from AM the point is pretty much only an academic one. A 0.18" flat tip on the end of a 30-cal boolit really doesn't leave a whole lot of play in the shape of the nose since the flat tip on the end of the nose is taking up more than half of the nose. The design you indicated in your OP seems to be a standard radius profile leading up the tip, just enough to improve the feeding in most guns which with that big of a flat per caliber size is pretty much all you can do with what you have to work with anyway. Now if your caliber was 45 then going with the minimum .18" flat on the nose since the flat makes up such a smaller percentage of the nose what the shape of the rest of the nose was would make more of a difference.

Anyway that's my $0.02

[hylander]

I'm wondering if this Boolit with FN will function proper in my 03A3 feeding from the mag. ?
Also looking for accuracy

[turbo1889]

As far as feeding goes, the stock nose curve profile that is on that AM#31-195R design should feed reasonably well in many guns but by no means all of them. Without actually looking at your gun and if necessary making up a few dummy rounds to check (take some of your existing boolits from your Lee mold and use a sharp knife to carve the lead and make them have a large flat on the nose and check to see if they feed well or not) I couldn't tell you if that stock curve profile would work well for your gun to feed or not.

I can tell you that I have found that the way to get a FT or HP boolit to feed well in a picky gun is to set-up the nose curve profile so that it just slightly tapers in a little until its right up towards then end of the nose and then curves in sharply towards the flat so it meets that flat at at least a 45-degree angle or so. If you set-up a FT boolits nose that way you can get it to feed in almost any gun even the ones that are really picky. A good example of setting up a boolits nose like that is the AM#31-087T (http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-087T-D.png) which is a 32-ACP boolit. That is one of my designs that I sent Tom the specs. for because I needed a boolit for that caliber that was fairly heavy for that cartridge and would feed in almost any gun that used that cartridge which tend to be picky eaters and many guns chambered in that cartridge especially old and/or lower cost guns will jamb on commercial hollow point stock and will only feed round nose stock (I own a lot of guns in that cartridge). It works as intended and so far I have yet to find a 32-ACP gun that won't feed that boolit, yes some of them need the boolit seating depth adjusted but I've got every gun I own in that cartridge to eat that boolit like candy.

I'm not trying to brag about "my" boolit design and the way I set-up the nose on it to feed in almost anything even with a large FT on the boolit rather I'm pointing out something that is counter-intuitive. Often when people are trying to get a FT boolit to feed well they will try to pick a boolit with a very long pointy curve on its nose leading up the flat on the tip thinking it will feed better. The exact opposite is actually the case in most circumstances and having a boolit with a sharp curve right at the end of the nose up to the flat on the tip is what usually feeds the best.

That is one good thing about a totally custom mold maker like Tom. You can have him change a design to better suit your needs (actually he just usually adds a new design). If I personally wanted a boolit like the one you have selected from his catalog with the general weight and proportions you have selected and I wanted to make it feed as well as possible in most guns I would ask Tom to adjust the nose like this:

Original AM#31-195R ~ vs. ~ New AM#31-190?
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7052/8689039811_b09e2d2197.jpg


As far as accuracy goes, your already shooting a RN boolit with your Lee and often RNFT is more accurate then plain RN even at super-sonic velocity provided the boolit fits the guns throat and you can get it to feed cleanly and not catch on stuff a mash up the nose on feeding (not a huge problem with a bolt gun but a big potential problem with a lot of auto-loaders like the SKS and such) so I say worry about getting the boolit sized correctly to fit your gun first and getting it to feed smoothly second and the accuracy should be mainly taken care of with just getting the boolit to fit your gun. I personally would go as far as to actually take a throat cast or impression and spec. the boolit forward of the crimp grove to fit the throat and lead into the rifling like a hand in a glove but most aren't willing to go that far.

[exdxgxe4life]

Just to speak for the quality of accurate molds, Tom does TOP quality work. I ordered a mold to drop .44 at .432 with wheel weights. Does it PERFECT! can't complain, and if quality was ever a concern, don't worry about it, A+.

[hylander]

Thanks for the input.
They can't make a RN and my 03A3 will not cycle a FN from the Mag.
Anyone else make a nice 185 - 195gr. RN bullet that is a true Bore rider ?

[turbo1889]

I'd check what both MiHec and NOE is offering (Vender Sponser Section), they are excellent high quality custom mold makers as well and they use a different mold making process which works well to make round nose and other boolit designs that don't have a flat on their tip.

[hylander]

I'd check what both MiHec and NOE is offering (Vender Sponser Section), they are excellent high quality custom mold makers as well and they use a different mold making process which works well to make round nose and other boolit designs that don't have a flat on their tip.
Just got off the phone with NOE, very nice guy and helpful.
He makes the Mold I need (312299 202gr. RN 2 cavity GC ) but won't have one available for awhile :sad: