45 colt,new powder(800x)

[james6600]

Hi all, I went to the local gun store looking for powder for the New Vaquero as HS-6 is too position sensitive for my wants and 800x is all I could find. I loaded 6 rounds at 7.5gr and got a low of 703fps and a high of 734fps, that's great but POA was a little low so went and loaded 3 more at 8gr and got 756-783-768, I think 8.1 or 8.2gr will get me where I need to be. I have read reports of this powder not throwing well but in my Dillon 550b with the small charge bar it seems very consistent, not perfect but consistent. By the way this is a 5.5" barrel and a 250gr 12BHN boolit. I just thought I'd share my experience.

[gray wolf]

How does HS-6 become position sensitve ? or were you rying to load it way down ?

[james6600]

(GRAY WOLF) I was loading near max for Colt SAA (NOT Ruger only loads) and was getting 75+ fps change depending on muzzle up or muzzle down before taking the shot. I'm not knocking HS-6 it is great in my 9mm and I hope it is just as good in 45ACP, I do notice higher pressures seem to clean it up more but powder residue has never bothered me any way. What happened was my daughter used all her cowboy loads and instead of grabbing Trail Boss I got sidetracked with her gun, a bottle of HS-6 and a dream of a 40-60 yard deer gun. Between work, turkey hunting and the rain I'm getting a few test shots in a day and learning a little bit :).

[High Desert Hunter]

I used 800X with 255 grain cast bullets for 10 years until I switched to Unique. I literally think I could get by with 3 pistol powders, Unique, 2400, and H110.

[smkummer]

Looks like you can keep working up to a max of 9.5 grains behind the 250 lead bullet according to the IMR powder guide for 915 FPS and 13,700 pressure.

[DougGuy]

Your New Vaquero is built on the medium frame, and is safe with .45 ACP +P pressures, as it's rated for the .45 ACP +P cartridge in the convertible models, which is a 23,000psi pressure ceiling. It is NOT SAFE with "Ruger Only" loads listed in most load data, as those loads frequently top out near 30,000psi.

If it is hitting a low point of aim, it needs a boolit that will give it longer dwell time in the barrel. My OM Vaquero is like that, it shoots 340gr and 325gr hardcast gas checks and also the 300gr Speer "deep curl" J word to the exact same point of aim, right on top of the front sight at about 50' and I tried some 260gr loads, they hit quite low.

I had to search around and find a load that was safe with less powder, and 2400 seemed like it would work great. I started at 19gr, and it shot about 4" low, 18gr had it at 2" low, 17gr put it about 1 1/2" low, and 16gr began to open up the groups considerably. I could see how the slower the boolit went, (longer dwell time in the barrel) the higher the point of aim because there was more muzzle rise, but it never got quite up to the point of impact of the other loads.

One thing of interest, I decided to take some of the 17gr loads and climbed a ladder tree stand, and shot them straight down at a target a couple of yards away from the bottom of the ladder. Voila! They were striking the target about an inch higher than shooting horizontally.

Thus went my educational range session with slowing down a 260gr LSWC. It almost worked. I am going to some 300gr WFN boolits over the same charges of 2400, the heavier boolit will be slower, which will increase dwell time in the barrel and allow the muzzle rise to print that load right in the same group as the other loads that are sighted in for this fixed sight Vaquero. That will give me 4 loads that hit the same point of aim.

By comparison, the Buffalo Bore "Deer Grenade" is a high pressure high velocity 260gr LSWC-HP GC design, (definitely NOT SAFE in the New Vaquero) which they claim some incredible velocities, something like 1350f/s in the 5 1/2" barrel, those strike the target a full 6" below point of aim at 50' and it is that same exact boolit that comes from Rimrock Bullets that I used in my testing and attempts to throttle it back. It got pretty close, the load I developed can be used hunting, it is pleasant to shoot, and well below the pressure ceiling of a New Vaquero.

For your New Vaquero, I would suggest using some 300gr boolits and see if you can walk the load up to where the sights are pointed on the target.

[james6600]

DougGuy sorry it took so long to read your post I've been working too much. You posted some good info. I put 50rnds rounds through it today with 9grs 800-x at around 860fps, I'm left handed so I push to the right even with one leg of the trigger spring let loose. I was 30-35yrd shooting 8" square steel plates and had to aim at the lower left corner to hit, my goal was to get a good heat cycle on the weapon and just get some grip time so these were rapid fire. I haven,t cleaned it yet but leading looked non existent.
I am going to try and find some SAA-270 boolits and maybe some 300 grainers to try, my brass is in the polisher now if I can get it loaded tomorrow I will try again concentrating more on target placement and see how it does. I think more grip time will show the biggest improvement in accuracy but anything less than perfect is a reason to load and shoot more :)

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I just picked up two new (to me) powders and tried them in one of my .45 Colt SAA's. AA#5 and VV 3N337. 10 gr of AA#5 pushed a 454190 ww .454" Alox at 822 fps average with a 70 fps extreme spread in velocity measured over 5 rounds. 10.5 gr of VV 3N37 kicked the same boolit out the 4 3/4" bbl at 890 fps with 50 fps extreme spread measured over 5 rounds.

What surprised me was how much I could tell the difference was in the apparent recoil and blast with these too loads. I wouldn't have suspected that a mere 70 fps difference would have been that noticeable with the same gun and boolit but it was.

I purchased these powders because Brian Pearce lists them in his articles and they were on the shelf at a gunshop, I thought it would be more prudent to purchase them than leave them what with this powder shortage going on.

Unique is my favorite powder still, but my wrist is showing evidence of damage which I believe is from the years of recoil in the .45 Colt so I am going to look for a more powder puff load.

[DougGuy]

I am going to look for a more powder puff load.

I haven't been able to find any here locally but I have been reading a LOT about Trail Boss and also True Blue. I don't load anything at standard .45 Colt pressures, all mine are in the Ruger Only data but you might look into those two powders, with the emphasis on Trail Boss.

[JohnFM]

Pretty interesting stuff here. I think I'm going to spend some time with some slower powders and see how they affect POI and also the leading left behind.

[prs]

One thing to be alert for with 800X, especially if you in cold weather, it seems to slow a lot in sub freezing temps. I got some near blooper loads a few winters back with it in 45 Colt and 250g boolits.

prs

[james6600]

prs .... The cold weather info is important, I didn't realize that. I will have to stick some in the freezer and put them over the chronograph.

[prs]

Good idea. I shot my 800X in summer and then went back go Unique. Of course, now one shoots what one can get....

prs