storm lake barrels are not good for cast. please read.

[ctious]

So I bought a new storm lake barrel for my g20. A 6in.

Slugged the bore..4005. Perfect. Shot with .401 bullets. Lead bad. Tried .402. Lead bad.

Slugged throat. .404. Wow. That is large. Can't size a bullet to match that. Call storm lake. 2 conversations and a few emails. It's in spec as far as they are concerned. Will not do anything to fix it.

They are telling me that they ream all barrels to .403 throats. Wow. That is .002 over spec. Needless to say if you plan on shooting lead avoid storm lake. The new barrels are not worth the metal they are made of.

Wish I did not have to post this here. But everyone should know.

Back to shooting my lone wolf with the .4025 throat. And I thought that was large.

Feel free to contact storm lake if you feel they are really screwing up with what they are doing. Maybe if enough people inform them to needing the throat to match the bullet size to avoid leading they will fix it. For now I am out a lot of money on a barrel that is as good as a paper weight for shooting lead.

[Bwana]

I would be interested in the boolit you used, alloy, air or water cooled, lube used. Let's see if we can help you out maybe.

[missionary5155]

Good evening
Have you tried any "as cast" diameter boolits ? How fat a boolit will chamber ?
Mike in Peru

[fouronesix]

Don't know about your individual barrel but I put a Storm Lake in my 1911 45 ACP- shoots both Jbullets and cast extremely well, better than any other pistol barrel I've tried and no leading. Funny, but the most common complaint from cast bullet shooters is that chamber necks/throats are too skinny (fill in the type of gun) so they can't shoot cast very well ??? :mrgreen:

[ctious]

Good evening
Have you tried any "as cast" diameter boolits ? How fat a boolit will chamber ?
Mike in Peru

At .402 they just barley chamber. At .4025 a no go.

[ctious]

Don't know about your individual barrel but I put a Storm Lake in my 1911 45 ACP- shoots both Jbullets and cast extremely well, better than any other pistol barrel I've tried and no leading. Funny, but the most common complaint from cast bullet shooters is that chamber necks/throats are too skinny (fill in the type of gun) so they can't shoot cast very well ??? :mrgreen:


I wish I had a tight throat. I could always open it up. I know the old storm lakes were great. Seems the new ones are not so good. I think they have new reamers. I spoke with Chad Henry at storm lake. He is the one that told me they now cut to .403.

[ctious]

I would be interested in the boolit you used, alloy, air or water cooled, lube used. Let's see if we can help you out maybe.

Ww plus a little tin. Tac 1 lube. Air and water cooled. Different sizes.

I shot the same bullets out of my lone wolf barrel and also my ccu with a 16 in barrel. No problems. The only difference is the way loose throat on the storm lake. Is the .404 throat. It looks like gas
cutting is happening leaving the heavy streaks in the first 2 inch of the barrel.

[uscra112]

What's a g20? What cartridge? 6 inch barrel? A revolver? This isn't making sense to me at all.

[HATCH]

full size 10mm glock. = g20

[ctious]

What's a g20? What cartridge? 6 inch barrel? A revolver? This isn't making sense to me at all.

Glock 20. 10mm. 6in barrel.

The free bore area is what I am referring to as throat.

[dkf]

The chamber tolerances on the SAAMI drawing for 10mm are +.004". So according to SAAMI .403" or .404" is within spec.

[Bwana]

At .402 they just barely chamber. At .4025 a no go.

Might I suggest using R-P brass cases as the walls are thinner and may allow the use of larger, .403", boolits. And make sure you are taper crimping to about .418".

[ctious]

The chamber tolerances on the SAAMI drawing for 10mm are +.004". So according to SAAMI .403" or .404" is within spec.
Too bad that makes them useless. Unless the chamber allows u to run a boolit that big.

I understand the plus 4. But when they are shooting for plus 2 it just does not make sense. Why not shoot for the exact spec and if its a little over so be it. Also spec drawing says the plus is allowed in the chamber. Not in the throat and freebore or rifiling.

I should have ordered a barsto. At least then I know it would have been exact.

May order one from them anyways.

[35remington]

Pardon all the speculation. I have more questions than answers, but I'm not sure and speculating out loud.

I'm wondering if your gun really has a "throat." Most automatic pistol barrels have a very, very short "riflingless" section forward of the chamber stop shoulder......so short, in fact, that I really wonder if this being oversized is a factor in accuracy.

The only way I'm aware of to size a throat that is usually this short is to cerrosafe it. It's not like your throat is 1/4 or 3/8 inch long....that I doubt very much. And if the throat is short as most pistol barrels are, it's hard to tell just what you're slugging.

Are you sure about this, and sure about where the problem lies? Is it possible barrel finish is a little toothy, and a bit of jacketed use will smooth things out? How's jacketed bullet accuracy? If that is fine, there's hope for cast because the smaller jacketed diameter ought to be even more "misaligned" than a larger diameter cast bullet.

Now, my friend's Glock allows an overall length that will exceed the magazine. But it's still not much of a throat even so.

And of course, I don't have a Storm Lake barrel, so maybe for all I know they really do have really long throats. How far out of the case is the bearing surface of the bullet when it headspaces against the rifling? Got a picture of same? I really need to see this oversized, apparently overlong throat to be sure myself, and to know about what was measured.

I also find it hard to believe that a throat that has a clearance of 0.001" per side at .404" and 0.0005" per side at .403" over a .402" bullet allows that much misalignment of bullet to barrel such that it affects accuracy negatively. I shoot cast bullets out of rifles that have that much throat clearance and shoot quite small groups with them; I dare say these rifles will easily outshoot any barrel for a Glock ever made with that much throat clearance.

See if the leading can be addressed first, as obviously accuracy sucks with a leaded barrel. Smooth it up some with jacketed and give it another spin. Gas cutting happens even with a tight throat and zero zero fit as the case releases the bullet. Gas gets past bullets; it's unavoidable.

[ctious]

Pardon all the speculation. I have more questions than answers, but I'm not sure and speculating out loud.

I'm wondering if your gun really has a "throat." Most automatic pistol barrels have a very, very short "riflingless" section forward of the chamber stop shoulder......so short, in fact, that I really wonder if this being oversized is a factor in accuracy.

The only way I'm aware of to size a throat that is usually this short is to cerrosafe it. It's not like your throat is 1/4 or 3/8 inch long....that I doubt very much. And if the throat is short as most pistol barrels are, it's hard to tell just what you're slugging.

Are you sure about this, and sure about where the problem lies? Is it possible barrel finish is a little toothy, and a bit of jacketed use will smooth things out? How's jacketed bullet accuracy? If that is fine, there's hope for cast because the smaller jacketed diameter ought to be even more "misaligned" than a larger diameter cast bullet.

Now, my friend's Glock allows an overall length that will exceed the magazine. But it's still not much of a throat even so.

And of course, I don't have a Storm Lake barrel, so maybe for all I know they really do have really long throats. How far out of the case is the bearing surface of the bullet when it headspaces against the rifling? Got a picture of same? I really need to see this oversized, apparently overlong throat to be sure myself, and to know about what was measured.

I also find it hard to believe that a throat that has a clearance of 0.001" per side at .404" and 0.0005" per side at .403" over a .402" bullet allows that much misalignment of bullet to barrel such that it affects accuracy negatively. I shoot cast bullets out of rifles that have that much throat clearance and shoot quite small groups with them; I dare say these rifles will easily outshoot any barrel for a Glock ever made with that much throat clearance.

See if the leading can be addressed first, as obviously accuracy sucks with a leaded barrel. Smooth it up some with jacketed and give it another spin. Gas cutting happens even with a tight throat and zero zero fit as the case releases the bullet. Gas gets past bullets; it's unavoidable.


The area i am referring to is the freebore. On this barrel its quite long. Around 1/4 inch. Much longer than any other barrel I have for my semi autos. Accuracy is.not bad. It's the chunk streak leading I am gettting in the first 2 inches of the barrel. That is caused by gas cutting in the throat freebore area being I can not fill the area because it is way oversize.

In your rifle are u shooting plain base or gc boolits? If I was shooting gc I would not have the issue.

Also in my lone wolf barrel I had the same issue and had to size boolit up to the .4025 throat area to stop it. I can shoot hundreds of cast in that now without a drop of leading.

I am sure if I could chamber a .404 bullet it would it would shoot clean. But the barrel will not allow that.

[35remington]

I'm shooting both plain base and gascheck. A gascheck bullet can still get gascutting above the gascheck and I've got recovered bullet that show it......but it would minimize cutting on the heel, for certain.

I'm not convinced yet of the inevitability of the leading issue given I've worked with the same amount of clearance, that is, 0.001" per side. What lube? Bullets are generally poor obturators in the sense that some of the gas is gonna get by even with a tight throat given the case must have clearance to release the bullet. Even my zero zero fit throats show gascutting, evidenced by recovering bullets.

Shoot with jacketed extensively and give it another try. What have you to lose? They are not gonna replace the barrel anyway. Revolvers shoot 0.002" undersized bullets all the time in many instances compared to chamber mouth diameter, and this doesn't necessarily preclude all accuracy or guarantee leading.

I know I'm arguing without having the barrel and shooting evidence before me, and I'm not trying to be a contrarian.....just suggesting that giving up without giving alternatives a try isn't gonna help anything. Again, what is there to lose?

If you're not using a good 50/50 lubricant with all lube grooves filled, now is the time to try it.

[ctious]

Using Tac 1. It's the 200 gr boolit off the group buy on here that Oreo ran. The lube grove is large with it filled. It shoots clean out of my 16 in carbine. So lube lack is not an issue. And also fine in my lone wolf. I will run a few hundred jacketed today through it and try the cast again. I don't think it will fix anything but to settle all minds on here I will do it. There is a good 50 jacketed through it already. So after today that will make a good 150 to 200 plus jacketed through it.

[ctious]

Shot 100 jacketed. Cleaned and shot cast again. Leaded within 5 shots. Took some of the same bullets in the carbine and lone wolf barrel and not a drop of leading.

The only spec difference is the throat in tbarrels. One expensive paper weight. Locally I talked 3 guys out of getting a storm lake night at the range. Pretty sure storm lake will lose more money over this than what it would take to refund me or get me a barrel that is truely match grade.

[35remington]

I'm not familiar with Tac 1....what is that? What's in it? The only other thing you can reasonably vary is the lube you're using.

I know that 50/50 solves most leading problems when they occasionally crop up with combination bullet fit/tumble lube/LLA issues. So that's my fallback recommendation. NRA formula or variants of same is sort of my "premium lube" for most stubborn leading problems assuming that lube will help to any degree. Most of the time handguns don't need that great a lube but I am of the opinion that the 10mm cartridge is more demanding of its lubricant than many other more mundane cartridges.

[gunfan]

Interesting.

Scott

[ctious]

Tac 1 is beeswax and stp I think. With maybe something else also. Buy it from a guy on here. Guys have nothing but great things to say about it.

I tried some tumble lubed alox and it still leaded the same.

[35remington]

I would expect tumble lubed alox to make things worse. Give 50/50 a try. If that doesn't help it's not able to be helped by lube. Assuming the barrel's finish isn't contributing, that is. More jacketed is good to find out if this is the case.

[GaryN]

Tac 1 is made by RandyRat. I think it is 3 parts beeswax and 1 part Zip lube. Zip lube is comparable (or maybe exactly the same) to bullplate lube.

[ctious]

If i could get my pics to upload I could show u how much lead I am talking. After 5 shots when I cleaned it I had a pile bigger than a dime almost a quarter in size. It's a lot of lead.

[Forrest r]

It ain't the lube.

Try a pb gas check or sell the bbl.

[Oreo]

I agree. Sell the bbl to someone who doesn't cast. Go get the bbl that's made right.

[ctious]

That is what I will have to do. Just sad that the barrel with the best chamber support now has the loosest throat on the market. I wish they would see their mistake and make them tight again. Lots of people are going to get burnt on these barrels and storm lake does not care. So much for customer service.

[ctious]

I contacted my lawyer and gave them all the info. All emails and everything else I have showing everything that has happened.

They are going to be getting.in contact with storm.lake. at this point is the principle of things. Seeing they advertise match grade with a tolerance of .001. That is def not what I got.

[Bwana]

I contacted my lawyer and gave them all the info. All emails and everything else I have showing everything that has happened.

They are going to be getting.in contact with storm.lake. at this point is the principle of things. Seeing they advertise match grade with a tolerance of .001. That is def not what I got.

A Lawyer? Holy COW. Tell you what I'll give you $10.00 plus shipping. Let's start an auction.

[ctious]

A Lawyer? Holy COW. Tell you what I'll give you $10.00 plus shipping. Let's start an auction.

Yeah I don't accept getting lied to. If u are going to sell something you state it better be what u state. I have taken on the city many times here and have not ever lost. And a few manufacturers also. So this will not be any different. I am a firm believer in honesty. I have no wiggle room for lying or telling it not how it is.

All they would have had to do is refund me. But I guess that was too simple. So we will make it hard.

[35remington]

Pursuing it with a lawyer might not be the way to come out on top. If you have even the slightest chance of making it worth your while some amount of reasonable effort on your part to address what you could is expected as a kind of documentation. So trying a few things before giving up is is a good idea. They'll ask you "how do you know?"

To make sure you're covering the bases, a few more efforts couldn't hurt. Then that angle is better covered. Just how well does it shoot, anyway? With whatever it does well with, that is.

[ctious]

Pursuing it with a lawyer might not be the way to come out on top. If you have even the slightest chance of making it worth your while some amount of reasonable effort on your part to address what you could is expected as a kind of documentation. So trying a few things before giving up is is a good idea. They'll ask you "how do you know?"

To make sure you're covering the bases, a few more efforts couldn't hurt. Then that angle is better covered. Just how well does it shoot, anyway? With whatever it does well with, that is.


I have it covered. Tried everything asked too. Different sizes. Lube and even fired off a lot of javketed to break it in. I have lots of documentation. Pics, screenshots of the description of the specs. I an sure once the letter gets there is will be handled quickly.

[HangFireW8]

ctious,

I'm not going to dispute your experience or your measurements at all.

I do have issue with your thread title, though. If you had qualified it with the caliber it would be a lot more acceptable.

I just have to state for the record that I have a Storm Lake in 45 for the 1911, I broke it in with cast boolits and it continues to be awesome with cast boolits. Maybe I wouldn't be happy if it was .40, but we can't write off the entire company for one bad caliber, or indeed, maybe one bad barrel.

HF

[Adam10mm]

Had a similar experience with a LWD barrel but I chalked it up to a $100 lesson and moved on. No need to waste time and money on going legal with that nonsense.

[ctious]

ctious,

I'm not going to dispute your experience or your measurements at all.

I do have issue with your thread title, though. If you had qualified it with the caliber it would be a lot more acceptable.

I just have to state for the record that I have a Storm Lake in 45 for the 1911, I broke it in with cast boolits and it continues to be awesome with cast boolits. Maybe I wouldn't be happy if it was .40, but we can't write off the entire company for one bad caliber, or indeed, maybe one bad barrel.

HF

It's the new barrels that are loose. They changed reamers.
What I was told they over size them now to not have feeding issues that need a barrel opened up for bullet profiles. From my conversations it sounds like they did this with all calibers. Not just 40.

[ctious]

Had a similar experience with a LWD barrel but I chalked it up to a $100 lesson and moved on. No need to waste time and money on going legal with that nonsense.

Legal cost is nothing to me. Does not cost me a dime. So for me to go this route is no problem. As for u accepting the loss u had that is your choice. I personality don't accept losses that are not caused by myself.

[Bwana]

"Legal cost is nothing to me. Does not cost me a dime."

They always told me that if someone tells you "it's free", that just means you haven't found out how much it's going to cost you yet.

"I personality don't accept losses that are not caused by myself."

Yours must be an interesting life.

[ctious]

"Legal cost is nothing to me. Does not cost me a dime."

They always told me that if someone tells you "it's free", that just means you haven't found out how much it's going to cost you yet.

"I personality don't accept losses that are not caused by myself."

Yours must be an interesting life.

Law firm is on retainer has been for years. I get many many hours a year for free included with being on retainer. Family trust pays that.

My life is great. No one attempts to screw with me. The ones that have learned that it will cost them big time. This case is minor. But morals and principle of it require responce.

[Bwana]

"Law firm is on retainer has been for years. I get many many hours a year for free included with being on retainer. Family trust pays that."

I've always said, never mess with someone with a silver spoon in their mouth.

[jmort]

"I've always said, never mess with someone with a silver spoon in their mouth."

And zeros out their time

[ctious]

"Law firm is on retainer has been for years. I get many many hours a year for free included with being on retainer. Family trust pays that."

I've always said, never mess with someone with a silver spoon in their mouth.

I alway say never hang out with people that are not willing to stand up for themselves.

And I was not born with a silver spoon. Our family, myself included worked hard and built what we have now.

[jmort]

"I alway say never hang out with people that are not willing to stand up for themselves."

I'll make an exception for Jesus. As for the barrel, I agree, it was not as advertised.

[ctious]

"I alway say never hang out with people that are not willing to stand up for themselves."

I'll make an exception for Jesus. As for the barrel, I agree, it was not as advertised.

Yes there is that exception.