Mini ball in a sharps paper cutter

[Fly]

Have any of you ever shot mini balls in your paper cutter sharps.I have a lyman .54 cal mini ball mold.
I have been trying the mini ball,s in it.I been using those plastic tube loaders, that dumps the powder
behind the mini.

I'm shooting 60 grains of home made corned black powder with very good sucess.I never hear people
say they shoot mini balls in there Sharps.I know I can't be the only one.

I also have a NEI ring tail mold, but so far I think I,m getting as good of results with the lyman cast
mini balls.I'm still early in testing, but just wondered your thoughts.

Fly :coffee:

[fouronesix]

Don't have a Sharps in-betweener so never tried it. However, I've shot minies in a lot of other things and they usually do well and sometimes extremely well! One thing I've noticed about minies in any rifle is that usually less is more. Start low on charge and work up to find best, most accurate charge. No reason a minie can't be made to work in a Sharps paper cutter.

[Fly]

Well I slugged the bore & it is about .001 under bore size, so that,s about right.

Fly

[fouronesix]

Well I slugged the bore & it is about .001 under bore size, so that,s about right.

Fly

Fly, actually I may not have explained the "less is more" thing too well. I'll try again explaining some generalized things I've discovered about accurate minie shooting. I have found that the softer the lead the better- that's usually a given with minies. I have also found that for a minie to shoot its very best it needs to be very close to bore diameter- and of course that can create another set of problems with seating in a fouled bore if it is not swabbed or cleaned between shots.

Now to the "less is usually more" part. I seem to get better accuracy with minies, all other things being equal, with lighter powder charges. That was the reason for the statement about starting with a low charge and working up too find best accuracy- the "less is more" part.

It'll be interesting to hear how the Sharps does with the minie!

[Fly]

What loads do you shoot?There is a guy, named Charlie "Something" brain fade thats is the man,
from what I hear on these paper cutters.I read where he uses no more than 45 grains with the
ring tail bullets.

That sounds very low to me, but I,m just learning with this thing.Do you ever go that low shooting
minies?
Fly

[varsity07840]

What loads do you shoot?There is a guy, named Charlie "Something" brain fade thats is the man,
from what I hear on these paper cutters.I read where he uses no more than 45 grains with the
ring tail bullets.

That sounds very low to me, but I,m just learning with this thing.Do you ever go that low shooting
minies?
Fly

His name is Charlie Hahn. He's an expert on the original and repro Sharps. He also sells cardboard
cartridge tubes to use with ringtail bullets. They disintergrate at ignition and blow out rather than burning up. If you have a percussion Sharps that leaks and binds up, he can fix it. He is the go to guy for carbine shooters in th N-SSA. He suggests 42 gr of 2F as the most accurate target load with less recoil. Some percussion Sharps don't like minies because depending on the chamber and bullet size, the skirt flares while in the smooth chamber before it gets to the rifling rather than directly into the grooves when in a muzzleloader. It works ok in some rifles and poorly in others. Ringtails are sized at least .001 over groove depth.

Duane

[fouronesix]

What loads do you shoot?There is a guy, named Charlie "Something" brain fade thats is the man,
from what I hear on these paper cutters.I read where he uses no more than 45 grains with the
ring tail bullets.

That sounds very low to me, but I,m just learning with this thing.Do you ever go that low shooting
minies?
Fly

If I read your specs right- your minie is dropping at .001" under bore diameter? If that's the case it should be a good all around fit for the purpose.

As to the 45 gr charge for a 54 cal minie? Given very soft lead, quality cast minie and the minie at only .001" under bore diameter then yes- seems like a good place to start. Unlike having to bump up a bore diameter conical to seal and fill the grooves, the pressure required from 45 gr of BP should have no problem expanding the skirt to seal and fill the grooves. Minies are fairly fragile projectiles and seem to do better if not pushed too hard. They need to leave the muzzle in as pristine condition as possible to see full accuracy potential. Their primary mode of stabilization is aerodynamic. The spin imparted by the rifling twist is secondary and only needs to keep the nose pointed forward- especially just as the minie leaves the muzzle. Heavy charges can blow or distort the skirt during the trip down the bore, obturate (slump) the nose off axis to the shank of the minie or exert too much muzzle pressure just as the minie leaves the muzzle crown- thus blowing the skirt out.

[Fly]

Duane thanks for the info.I knew Charlie,s last name, but when you get my age, it takes
longer to process,(wink).I have a IAB Sharps.I must have gotten a good one, for it goes
bang every time.

But the groups are ok but not great.Now I have only shot 60 grains of powder.$
42 sounds very low to me, but I know he says to use that,& I,m no one to argue
with some one as him for sure.

Just seems very low for out or past 100 yards.Thanks my friend for your reply.
I must try that load.
Fly

[fouronesix]

Past 100 yds- who knows? If it is a carbine I don't think it was necessarily ever considered a long range rifle and today our accuracy standards are probably higher than they were in the 1850s. The success of any one loading combination may very well depend on experimenting with how to deal with the "chamber" part of the gun and how various load methods work. Types of paper, thickness of paper, how much of the paper becomes a base wad as the minie is fired and how the minie reacts to that, what charge seems to work best with any load combination, etc. Many, many combinations to try and that's the only way to find out.

[Stonecrusher]

I've used TC Maxi Balls before with very fine accuracy out of the Sharps 1863 Infantry Rifle before. If I remember I had to chuck the maxiballs in a collet and turn a little off the diameter of the front band to get them to seat deep enough.

[Fly]

I've used TC Maxi Balls before with very fine accuracy out of the Sharps 1863 Infantry Rifle before. If I remember I had to chuck the maxiballs in a collet and turn a little off the diameter of the front band to get them to seat deep enough.

Well I don't know which brand of sharps you had.But this IAB has a little larger bore than the C-Sharps & the rest.The rifleing
is .550 deep.It has 7 groves so it's hard to measure.Look,s like .005 deep rifleing.

Fly

[fouronesix]

Interesting you mentioned 7 groove. Reminds me of all the internet pundits I read who say/said that a minie will not shoot in 7 groove bores designed for roundball. I learned long ago--- given enough understanding of internal ballistics and understanding of safety that some of the oft quoted and more often repeated stuff is mostly just that- "repeated" stuff. One of the most if not the most accurate minie shooter I have has a 7 groove bore designed for roundball. That's just one example of many that came to mind.

Got to thinking a little more about the Sharps/minie attempt. Since I don't have it in hand, a lot of this is just thinking out loud so take it for just that. Anything preventing working up a load where the minie is, in effect, breech seated in front of the chamber portion? May require some type of BP suitable dense filler (not low density dacron!) to keep the charge weight down at a reasonable level.

Of course at some point if the loading becomes too cumbersome, the original idea of a fast loading, paper cartridge firearm is lost.

[Stonecrusher]

Well I don't know which brand of sharps you had.But this IAB has a little larger bore than the C-Sharps & the rest.The rifleing
is .550 deep.It has 7 groves so it's hard to measure.Look,s like .005 deep rifleing.

Fly

If the bore is .550" with .005 deep rifling, that makes a .54 caliber, same as a muzzleloader. The top band on the maxi-ball is a tight press in the bore. When you breech seat, as in the Sharps, the oversize band enters the barrel first hence turning the diameter down a little to let it go in.

I don't remember what brand the rifle was, it wasn't mine.

[varsity07840]

Well I don't know which brand of sharps you had.But this IAB has a little larger bore than the C-Sharps & the rest.The rifleing
is .550 deep.It has 7 groves so it's hard to measure.Look,s like .005 deep rifleing.

Fly

Moose Moulds makes ringtail .550 and .557 moulds.

Duane