Leaving the muzzlelaoder loaded - subs

[tacotime]

If you have a clean unfired gun, using Pyro or 777, how long can it be left capped and loaded, ignoring issues like someone else accessing it, etc?

And how does the answer change if the gun had been fired once before the current loading?

In this particular instance, I'm referring to a Ruger Old Army with a lightly wonder-lubed cardboard or felt wad over Pyro, a round ball, and a little bore butter on top, if any of this affects the answer.

Seems like I read once that a guy left one loaded for quite some time, and found no rust.

Thanks.

[tacklebury]

Last time I knew someone who left one loaded for more than a month, it ate out a lot of the burn chamber. Pyrodex is the worst corrosion producer of all of them in my experience. You are much better off to buy a compressed air unloader and buy speedloaders to be able to reload quickly. Trust me when I say leaving one loaded for extended periods isn't a good idea.

[Marvin S]

Years ago when I was forced to use pyro it would give hang fires if left loaded a couple days. I sure would not leave a dirty one loaded over night.

[wool1]

As a gunsmith, this is the number two reason for someone bringing their muzzleloader to me. Number one is simply lack of cleaning. Leaving it loaded for the few days of season, I've never seen a problem, anything over a week or two, you'll get corrosion started.

[colonelhogan44]

I left a Remington 1858 army loaded for 4 years with Pyrodex in the chambers. It fired right away, full power and the chambers were spotless - not a bit of corrosion. As always, YMMV.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

I left a Remington 1858 army loaded for 4 years with Pyrodex in the chambers. It fired right away, full power and the chambers were spotless - not a bit of corrosion. As always, YMMV.

Must have been a stainless "ONE of ONE THOUSAND" pistols in the high desert, in a humidity free safe, owned by a lucky fellow.

BvT

By the way, for the fellows that do not know, while most of our caps are now non corrosive, the fouling left by firing a cap does attract atmospheric moisture into an otherwise clean barrel and simple storage will corrode the barrel or cylinder, unless cleaning takes place with a proper corrosion preventative applied.

[Flinchrock]

Most likely it will be "goodbye gun"

[winelover]

My SS ROA is currently loaded with the dreaded Pyrodex since last October. One of these days I guess I'll unload it and see if there is a problem! I'm not concerned, I have left my blue steel Renegade loaded for nearly a year with no ill effects. However, I only do this to a clean gun, not one that has been fouled and only swabbed out. YMMV


Winelover

[KyBill]

I left my 44 loaded for a year by accident with Pyrodex RS would not fire , removed nipples , soaked and had to drive out the projectile, Heavy pitting and you all know the rest all but junk . looks good on a shelf now.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I left one gun loaded with Pyro once for a few days.
Went out hunting in November west Indiana one Saturday morning. Had to head to a church later that morning so did not fire it or pull the ball or charge. Arrived back home late Wednesday night and went out again to hunt Thursday morning. Three does came walking down the bottoms and stopped at 35 yards near broadside. That was the only time my Zouave (granted a musket with patched RB) ever failed to fire. Fired with the second cap but a crow was no substitute for a doe burger.
I never again left a firearm loaded with Pryro. I have left the same Zouve with 3F for at least a week and never failed to fire. My caliber.60 Smoothie flinter I left for 6 days during the hot humid summer this last time up with 3F and fired off just fine ( east ILLinois). Have left my BP revolvers for several days with 3F and never failed to fire.
I use Pyro off and on but will not ever leave it in a chamber.
Mike in Peru

[tacotime]

It just happened that I had to leave the Old Army loaded with Pyro for a couple of days, twice in a week, and all fired off both times with no issues. I feel pretty confident that Pyro loaded and sealed in a clean chamber in a non-wet environment is not a problem for a couple of days.

I wouldn't feel so good with dirty chambers or if loaded on a rainy day.

[colonelhogan44]

Must have been a stainless "ONE of ONE THOUSAND" pistols in the high desert, in a humidity free safe, owned by a lucky fellow.

BvT

Actually, it was stored in the trunk or under the seat of my car wrapped in a hand towel in east Texas for a year, and then in a pistol case inside my house in California. I bet anyone could store a gun loaded with Pyrodex long term if the caps fit well and the bore/cylinders were clean beforehand.

I did load the gun on a 100 degree CA day with zero humidity.

[NSB]

I love these responses. Nine out of ten report a bad outcome and the tenth responds with no problems at all. Doesn't even matter what the subject matter is.

[451 Pete]

I guess my question is why take any chance? I mean if you are loading it for personal protection you want to insure it will fire if and when it is needed. If I am going out to hunt it only takes a minute to freshly load.
My experiance with Pyrodex is like quite a few others here ... it seems to attract more moisture, cause more corrosion than black powder and cannot be relied opon to fire consistantly after several days of a gun being left loaded. It is because of these reasons I switched over to black powder use only.
I tried leaving a rifle loaded in the past in the mid west and if the gun went off with using Pyrodex it had a hang fire, again something that I dont personally want. Also I value the guns I have and corrosion or rust is not an option for me if I can prevent it.
At any rate, and with using any powder, if any rifle is fired even once here it is cleaned as soon as possible and it is never left loaded or left unloaded with it having a dirty bore. If I am spending all of the money and taking the time to travel and hunt I want the gun to fire reliably when it is called upon to do so.

Just my thoughts .... Pete

[tacotime]

I guess in general is makes sense to have the least exposure time to a chemical as possible here. I am sure the issue is common where you load up and go hunt, don't fire, and won't hunt again until the next day or two days, or more, but don't want to fire it just to unload and then have to do all the cleaning, just because of unloading in a hurry to avoid leaving it loaded.

I think I'm sticking to the policy that a clean loaded gun is fine for a day or two or three, but not a dirty chamber, and not if loaded in a sopping rainstorm.

And I will say this - I think the folks on another thread who say they rarely if ever fully break down a BC revolver to clean the insides, must be cruising for a corroding. The gun I got from a prior owner was widely rusted inside, and now after even a few shots with it left not taken apart for a 10 days or so, had some rust starting on the stainless, and a powder residue on most internal surfaces.

Mine will get broken down at least every couple of weeks if in use at all, and for sure if being stored for a while, while getting a few drops of oil/CLP into the openings in the meantime to keep it all lubed in there at a minimum.

That said, I do need to try 777 or Black MZ, and maybe the real stuff.

[colonelhogan44]

The amount of corrosion post-firing is night and day with real black. When I used to use Pyrodex (before I knew better) the corrosion would start nearly immediately.

I have a friend (who's not the most motivated) who left his revolver uncleaned after 3 cylinders of holy black. After two weeks, there was minimal corrosion. But we live in a VERY dry climate. I generally clean mine within a 24 hours, and have never had rust issues with real black.

[desi23]

I think the key is whether or not the gun is clean to start with. I have left a gun loaded for up to a year with both pyrodex and the holy black with no corrosion problems and I have lived in the humid Tenn/Arkansas region and the Ohio/Ind area. The guns were clean when loaded and they fired without trouble when I tried them. Now if they had been dirty things might have been different but I won't leave a gun that has been fired uncleaned. If I have reloaded I will fire it out or pull the charge. I have read more than once that the fouling is much more hygroscopic than unfired powder and based on examining dirty guns I believe that is true. It is the fouling that sucks up moisture out of the air and some substitutes leave a residue similar to corrosive primers and that will definetly rust your gun.

[cajun shooter]

68399

This is a picture of my BRAND NEW TNN SXS after it was sent to the factory gunsmith to correct a flaw from production. I advised him that I only shot black powder and therefore I wanted the gun tested with BP.
This fellow was one of those who thought that BP and Pyrodex were one in the same. He fired the gun in Illinois and then shipped it to me in Louisiana via UPS. The trip took 4 days before delivery.
You can only guess at my surprise when I saw my gun. It was in the hottest time of a Louisiana summer and the gun was replaced by the factory. He received it instead of the new one he had on order. He was fired by EMF. I had told him via phone to not test it with Pyrodex as I did not want that stuff in my gun.
I've fired guns with the old DuPont BP powder and not cleaned them for a week.
I'm shooting KIK powder at this time and leave my guns as long as five days after firing with no problems at all.

[Marvin S]

It's really simple. If you can source real powder why in the world would you even consider any of the so called subs.

[winelover]

It's really simple. If you can source real powder why in the world would you even consider any of the so called subs.

Because the subs are not labeled explosives and as such are safer to store in one's house. It comes down to insurance issues.

Winelover

[nekshot]

cajun shooter, I agree that is a bad deal you were given and I am glad it all worked out, but in reality that gun would have cleaned up ok would it not? I only am asking to learn the do's and don'ts of this product,(as I have about 5 lbs gifted to me!) I only shoot real bp but this stuff is gonna get used up eventually. I guess what I want to know how would you deal with a gun like that to get it clean and stop the rust?

[rodwha]

I have left my stainless Old Army loaded several times for 4-6 weeks with Triple 7 with no ill effects or hang fires.

[LeadBrain]

I wonder how the new Black Mz would do? They claim to be one of the best subs when comes to storage. I have never had any luck storing a loaded charge of Pyro or 777 for more than a few days after that I had FTF and Hang Fires. My guess it is due to the high humidity and possibly not having the perfect chamber seal for the powder.

[rodwha]

It is typically quite humid here in the middle of Texas. I haven't noticed a problem yet, though I haven't done this through the worst of the humid months yet.

Does MZ need a hotter ignition than a #10/11 percussion cap? How does it compare to Triple7 as far as power goes? And smoke?

[LeadBrain]

I have not yet tried MZ maybe someone with some experience with it could comment on this. It could be the answer for those who wish to leave loaded muzzleloader for an extended period without using the real stuff.

[winelover]

My SS ROA is currently loaded with the dreaded Pyrodex since last October. One of these days I guess I'll unload it and see if there is a problem! I'm not concerned, I have left my blue steel Renegade loaded for nearly a year with no ill effects. However, I only do this to a clean gun, not one that has been fouled and only swabbed out. YMMV

Winelover



Finally got around to shooting / unloading the ROA. After eight months, every one fired without a hitch. Not a hint of rust, either!


Winelover

[Junior1942]

One of my Ruger Old Army SS pistols has been left loaded with Pyrodex RS since 1993. Come October, I'll post the results after I shoot and clean it.