Tell me if I'm crazy or not.

[Ted]

I've been casting straight COWW's for a while (I have 1,000-1,500 lbs stashed) and have been considering spicing the mixture for my rifles (mostly 30 cal but with some 35 and 458 thrown in).

I've been playing with the Lead Alloy Calculator from this site and hit on this combination.
500lbs COWW's
5lbs Tin (Rotometals. 5 x $15.99 = $79.95
5lbs Grade 1 Babbit Alloy ( Rotometals 5 x $19.99 = $99.95)

For just shy of $180 (I've already got the COWW's so there cost does not enter into this (about $20 a hundred average) I would get 510lbs of alloy with a mixture of
Tin 2.36% Antimony 2.99% Arsenic 0.25% Copper 0.04% Silver 0.00% Lead 94.4% Est. Hardness 12.0

I'm thinking that would cast well, harden well (water drop or oven treatment) and be useful for both hunting and target shooting.

I know some on this list have been experimenting with adding copper to their alloy. Is .04% enough to be useful, negligible or a problem?

Thanks

[cajun shooter]

I would suggest for you to down load the book that is available on the sticky section of our site. It was written by two of the most knowledgeable men in the casting business Glenn Fryxell and Ron Applegate. It is there for free and is called From Ingot To Target. We are very lucky indeed to have such a wealth of information offered to us for free. If you have not read this book then you need to before making any alloy. Later David

[hickfu]

I would love to read this book but I cannot find it, can you post the link to it?


Doc

[NewbieDave007]

Doc,

Look at the link below.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?110213-From-Ingot-to-Target-A-Cast-Bullet-Guide-for-Handgunners

[tryNto]

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

[cbrick]

Or the pdf version, better for downloading and/or printing.

From Ingot To Target (http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_textonly2.pdf)

As for your alloy I suggest not using all of your available WW and making one alloy. In addition I use clip-on WW +2% Sn for most everything rifles included to 2000 fps. No real need to get too fancy, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Things have a way of changing and in the future your casting and alloy needs will probably be different than today and you would have all your eggs in one basket. Experimenting is great just don't do it all in one big batch.

Rick

[Vorga]

good read forgot i had this ..i need to read it again

[hickfu]

Thanks for the link, I look forward to reading!!


Doc

[Defcon-One]

I agree with cbrick, as I usually do. I'd start with 50 pounds of COWW and test a batch. If you like it, make more as needed.

You're close to what I like and use!

I use 2% Tin, 3% Antimony, 95% Lead as my standard handgun alloy. I came to that alloy by reading the Frixell book and adding in what I already know. Bottom line 2% Tin is optimal. That requires no less than 2% Antimony. I use 3% because it gives a bit more hardness and I like the way it performs. I think that 3% Antimony is probably optimal as well, for handgun loads. If I use COWW to make my alloy, I get some Arsenic as well, which will help if I want to heat treat, but I doubt that I ever will.

The affects of the 0.04% Copper will be negligible!

DC-1

[Ted]

I agree with cbrick, as I usually do. I'd start with 50 pounds of COWW and test a batch. If you like it, make more as needed.

You're close to what I like and use!

I use 2% Tin, 3% Antimony, 95% Lead as my standard handgun alloy. I came to that alloy by reading the Frixell book and adding in what I already know. Bottom line 2% Tin is optimal. That requires no less than 2% Antimony. I use 3% because it gives a bit more hardness and I like the way it performs. I think that 3% Antimony is probably optimal as well, for handgun loads. If I use COWW to make my alloy, I get some Arsenic as well, which will help if I want to heat treat, but I doubt that I ever will.

The affects of the 0.04% Copper will be negligible!

DC-1

Well mostly I listed the volume at 500/5/5 lbs because that would get me a large enough order from Rotometals to get free shipping. You will note that that formula is easily reduced to 100/1/1 or even 50/.5/.5 giving me lots of tin and Babbit metal left. I figure on melting the Babbit into 9lbs of wheel weights and keeping those 10 ingots seperate /bagged/tagged/ and marked.

I kind of guessed that the copper would be too small to matter one way or the other.

Ted

[badgeredd]

Well mostly I listed the volume at 500/5/5 lbs because that would get me a large enough order from Rotometals to get free shipping. You will note that that formula is easily reduced to 100/1/1 or even 50/.5/.5 giving me lots of tin and Babbit metal left. I figure on melting the Babbit into 9lbs of wheel weights and keeping those 10 ingots seperate /bagged/tagged/ and marked.

I kind of guessed that the copper would be too small to matter one way or the other.

Ted

Ted,

It is well known that one of the best three part alloys is a balanced mix of 90-5-5 for most rifle shooting. Another mix of 50/50 + 2% tin is also generally accepted as a very good alloy. Logically (and according to several references) if the tin and antimony are present in a 1:1 proportion one has a good alloy.

What I have found, is that a fellow needs to take the copper into account also when wanting to get a balanced alloy. SO...if one wants to add some copper (which will contributes to "toughness, not hardness, of an alloy) the SB+Cu should be reasonably close to equal to the Sn content. 0.04% Cu likely will not show any appreciable improvement in the toughness of the alloy. If you want to add copper content, then I suggest you look at the type 3 babbit (Rotometals Supertough) for a source. Also if you aren't interested in truly high pressure loads with cast, I wouldn't spend the money for the babbit as it has not proven to me to be worthwhile in low to medium pressure loads.

Also, I'd consider dropping the pure tin in favor of the type 3 babbit if a tough high speed alloy is your goal. My 2 centavos....

Edd