Best all around .22 caliber centerfire cartridge

[birch]

I have gotten the itch to add a centerfire .22 caliber gun to my collection. I originally wanted a .22 hornet, but have read conflicting opinions on the hornet. I love surpreme accuracy, so the ability to sub moa at 100 yards with j-words is a must, but I would also love to load up some powderpuff pb loads that are no faster than a high velocity .22lr boolit. Since the .22 is one of my favorite rounds, I never again want to face crazy shock and awe prices for my beloved .22lr if a panic ever turns up again. If some of you have a terrific all around .22 caliber rifle round, I would love to hear some opinions and examples of great versatility as far as boolit/j-word loads are concerned.

[Bullshop]

I made mine a 221 Fire Ball but you couldnt go wrong with a 222 either.
I just posted some targets fired with my fire ball. Do a search for my latest posts and you will find it on a thread about this very thing, the issue with the 22 rf shortage.

[wallenba]

You can do cheap plinking with them too. Put a dimple in a case neck, near the shoulder. Then put a 22 cal. air rifle pellet in it, the dimple keeps it from falling all the way in. Shoot them with the primer.

[fouronesix]

I have gotten the itch to add a centerfire .22 caliber gun to my collection. I originally wanted a .22 hornet, but have read conflicting opinions on the hornet.

After years of having a few and test firing a few, your concerns are founded in reality. I have no idea why, but some manufacturers simply cannot get it right for the Hornet :(! Some simply won't shoot- period. While some are extremely accurate. So the Hornet gets a rap that should be aimed at the manufacturer rather than at the Hornet round itself. Predicting a result in a factory gun then becomes a cr** shoot maybe more so with the Hornet than with others. The work-around would be a semi custom build with the good chamber and good barrel. Another really good cousin is the K Hornet.

Also, can't argue with a 221 Fireball or 222 Rem.

[Mk42gunner]

If you want readily available factory loads, (once this panic dies down), the .223 Remington or .22-250 Remington would be easiest.

With that said, I really like the .222 Remington. It seems just a touch more accurate than the .223 to me, out of matching rifles.

I still have an itch for a Fireball though.

Robert

[bruce drake]

Which do you want? A Semi-Auto or Bolt Action rifle? If you are going with a Semi, I'd say the 223 Rem because of availability of brass and rifle types. If you are looking at a Bolt Rifle, I'd recommend a 223 Rem or a 22-250 Remington with a twist of 1-8 or 1-9 to allow you a better range of bullet weights than the standard 1-14 (now corrected) in twist rate which usually caps out at 55gr for accurate bullet weights.

Bruce

[Bullshop]

Bruce my friend and I consider you a friend I am not taking aim at you but have to dissagree with something you said here.
From before you were born the twist rate for 22/250 and all 22 CF was established at 1/14". That twist will readily handle the 60 grain bullets available like the two original (non poly tip) from Hornady and the Sierra are a few that I have used with great performance from 1/14" twist barrels.
From before I was born the standard twist rate for 22 cal .224" groove was 1/16". The 1/16" in the slower chamberings is very limited to short light weight bullets at about 45gn. In the faster chamberings like the 22 Cheta the 1/16" will handle up to 50gn spitzers but they have to go very fast and is exactly what the Cheta was ment to do.
For rifles especially a 22/250 using a 1/12" twist I would expect them to shoot well with bullets in the 60+ gn weight range.
This stuff is confusing enough so folks should get it right. What I am saying is backed by many years of experiance with 22 cal cartridges of all shapes and sizes standard and wildcat. It is more than opinion though and can be easily proven. I can tell you with certanty that I have put many coyotes on stretchers using the 60gn Sierra and 60 gn Hornady both soft nose and hollow point using rifles with 1/14" twist.
These have not either been just large case 22s but one of my favorite 222 rifles used the 60gn Sierra as a pet load.
Hope you dont ged upset with me for pointing these things out.

[Doc Highwall]

For 100-200 yards the 222 would be good for accuracy with lighter bullets up to about 60 grains with a 1-14" twist. But one thing to consider is the ballistic coefficient of heavier bullets when the wind blows. Bullets with a higher ballistic coefficient do not have to be driven as fast to show less wind drift. Most people once they have a good target load loose points due to the wind blowing their bullets out of the group from either a miscall of the wind, or a sudden wind change that they missed.

A 69 grain Match King bullet in a 223 Remington at 2800 fps a wind drift of 4.81” at 200 yards verses a 80 grain Match King at 2300 fps for 4.43”, and the 80 grain bullet can be driven faster.

I have two left hand Remington 40X rifles both in 223 Remington with a 1-8” twist, a single shot in 223 Remington with a 1-8” twist that I shoot 80 grain Sierra bullets, and a repeater that I am going to dedicate for cast bullets. I also have a Browning 1885 Lowwall in 223 Remington with a 1-12” twist that I am going to dedicate for cast bullets.

Between these two guns I should be able to have a field day with cast bullets. I have for moulds a N.O.E. 55 gr. F.N., 62 gr. MX3, 70 gr. R.N., and I am waiting for the 68 grain version of the MX3.
I also have a SAECO #221 60 gr. and a Mihec 65 gr. NATO with a 75 gr. version on the way.

With the velocity limits of cast bullets in the 1-8” twist, the heavier bullets should do well due to a higher ballistic coefficient.

[Jack Stanley]

I tend to agree with Bruce and the .223 idea at least if you are thinking of firing buckets full of ammo . Otherwise , though I've never had a .222 Remington I would go that route .

Currently I'm fooling with a Stevens model 200 with a fast twist and just got an older Savage model 110 with a one in fourteen twist . This should give me a chance to see how much difference a twist makes on one or two styles of bullet . Both are chambered in the .223 Remington .

Jack

[Larry Gibson]

I love surpreme accuracy, so the ability to sub moa at 100 yards with j-words is a must, but I would also love to load up some powderpuff pb loads that are no faster than a high velocity .22lr boolit.

The 222 Remington with a 14" twist barrel best answers that criteria hands down.

Larry Gibson

[bruce drake]

Bullshop,

You are correct, I was typing that at work and I went home and looked at the barrel and it was stamped 1-14. I'll correct it in my original post as well. I will say that my optimum loads for my personal 22-250 has always been a 45gr Sierra Blitzking and I've never had much luck with bullet weights over 55gr for accuracy in comparison to that 45gr loading. Now each bullet chucker is different and I'm thinking my twist rate may not be the same as yours despite the same stamping on the barrels which reflects our differences in opinion over the slower twist barrels and heavy 22 cal bullets.
My optimum 22-250 would be a 1-8 or tighter twist setup to allow me to use heavier bullets for longer distances in NRA Highpower Matches. Right now, that 45gr bullet starts getting blown by the wind too much past 300 yards.

Bruce

[Doc Highwall]

Bruce, what are you calling long range? I shoot the Sierra 80 grain Match King over 25 grains of Varget with a Fed 205M primer loaded in Norma cases out to 1000 yards. It has ballistics close to a 30 caliber 155 Sierra Palma bullet and is cheaper to shoot. If you want some thing that shoots out of proportion for it’s size look at the 6mm BR with 107 grain Sierras or what I have a 6mmXC with the same bullet or the 115-117 grain Tubb bullets.

[Bullshop]

I built a 22/250 for long range too. I used a Walther polygonal bore with a 1/6.5" twist. It was maid to shoot 90gn Bergers vld bullets and it shot them well.
A couple others I have messed with were 224 Clark with a 1/10" twist and a 22/243 Middlestead with a 1/8" twist.
Each was built for a specific bullet. The Clark for the 69gn Sierra and the Middlestead for the 80gn Sierra. Each did what I build them for, which was to kill coyotes at long range.

[joesig]

I have shot a 221 Fireball and 22-250 sub MOA pretty easily with the red bullets. I have shot sub MOA with the 221 in a Cooper Arms with boolits cast from a NOE mold and 18gr WC844 (H335). (in fairness, the test target from Cooper is a ragged hole about .3 in diameter @ 50yds so this was to be expected)

In a good gun, you won't have a problem with accuracy no matter what cartridge you pick.

At the moment, Midway has 221 brass in stock, 22-250 only in the high end manufacturers.

Then again, every manufacturer makes a 22-250 rifle or five. No so for the 221 and even less for the 222 :-(

I haven't mentioned 223 because everything there is 3X the price due to use in an AR.

The 221, with a case close in size to the Hornet but with a better neck would be better suited for 22 duplication. Kinda cool to watch the whole shot through the scope with the 221! It'll still toss them pretty fast with some Lil'Gun too! Be forewarned, the 221 is addictive.

[John Allen]

I personally like the 221 fireball. It is easy on powder and work great with most of the light to medium weight bullets. Plus you can load it light. I also have two 22 hornets. I really like this cartridge but as stated above some shoot great some do not. If you want something more generic the 223 is of course always great and easy to get ammo.

[bruce drake]

Bruce, what are you calling long range? I shoot the Sierra 80 grain Match King over 25 grains of Varget with a Fed 205M primer loaded in Norma cases out to 1000 yards. It has ballistics close to a 30 caliber 155 Sierra Palma bullet and is cheaper to shoot. If you want some thing that shoots out of proportion for it’s size look at the 6mm BR with 107 grain Sierras or what I have a 6mmXC with the same bullet or the 115-117 grain Tubb bullets.

Doc,

I like to shoot NRA Long Range competitions at 1000yrds as well but most of my shooting is the NRA Across the Course competitions at 2-3-600yards.

I built and own a 6.5 Creedmoor for future LR matches as I couldn't find a decently priced Large Ring Mauser threaded 1-8/1-9 twist 22 caliber blank to chamber for 22-250. Its on my build list for the future but at the moment its about 5 down on the rifle projects.

Bruce

[mainiac]

.222,,,,,simple!

[Bullshop]

I try to get within 500 yards or closer if possible. There have been a few that were closer to 600. The greatest benefit of an outfit like this is not in trajectory even though the trajectory is quite flat but the greatest benifit is in wind drift.
My 22/243 Middlestead would get 3600 fps from the 80gn Sierra. The 22/250 about 3350 with the 90gn Berger. The Berger bullet has a BC of over 500. If you look at a wind drift chart you will see that these will cut the drift of a 220 swift factory 55 gn bullet by 2/3.
That translates to hits using the same hold that the factory round would drift completely off target.
We have lazers to find the exact range but dealing with wind is a bit tougher.

[Doc Highwall]

Nothing like a high B.C. when the wind blows.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

.221 ...

[DLCTEX]

I have owned/own two 22 cal. rifles that would shoot sub. .500 groups. One was a custom 22-250, 14 twist on Sako action, heavy McGowan barrel and the other is a Rem. 722 in .222 that is stock. The Rem. was a lot less expensive. The former was stolen, the latter is a permanent resident.

[perotter]

As you appear to be looking to replace the common .22 RF, just get a .223. You get off the rack sub MOA at 100 yards, inexpensive ammo/components and wide availability.

[Pat I.]

As you appear to be looking to replace the common .22 RF, just get a .223. You get off the rack sub MOA at 100 yards, inexpensive ammo/components and wide availability.

I agree.

[birch]

Well, I ended up going with the CZ 527 hornet. I fired one box of factory ammo and found it to be a one hole gun with remington 40 grain. However, I have tried finding a load for .225 sized .55grain GC and have gotten a little scared. It seems that I whatever I try is the same result: a target full of random holes. I am going to buy another box of factory ammo and see exactly what is going on. If it shoots J-words, there must be a load that it likes. Unfortunatly, I do not have the molds to find out what it does like. Thanks for the help!

[Bullshop]

You need to shoot it a bunch with jacketed bullets or lap the throat/lead or ream the throat/lead to take the new off it.
Once the origin of the rifling gets a little dulled it should do better with boolits.

[Piedmont]

Well, I ended up going with the CZ 527 hornet. I fired one box of factory ammo and found it to be a one hole gun with remington 40 grain. However, I have tried finding a load for .225 sized .55grain GC and have gotten a little scared. It seems that I whatever I try is the same result: a target full of random holes. I am going to buy another box of factory ammo and see exactly what is going on. If it shoots J-words, there must be a load that it likes. Unfortunatly, I do not have the molds to find out what it does like. Thanks for the help!

I think that CZ has a 1-16" twist which is too slow for bullets that long. Try something under 50 grains.

[mainiac]

Well, I ended up going with the CZ 527 hornet. I fired one box of factory ammo and found it to be a one hole gun with remington 40 grain. However, I have tried finding a load for .225 sized .55grain GC and have gotten a little scared. It seems that I whatever I try is the same result: a target full of random holes. I am going to buy another box of factory ammo and see exactly what is going on. If it shoots J-words, there must be a load that it likes. Unfortunatly, I do not have the molds to find out what it does like. Thanks for the help!

My hornet shoots cast wonderful,as long as you dont exceed 2400f.p.s.,,this seems to be key.after 2400, everything has to be perfect,and past 2700 f.p.s., things get really ugly......

[birch]

I went with the .22 hornet in a cz 527. So far, it has been an emotional roller coaster with that gun. It likes factory ammo, but I have been experimenting with different boolits/j-words and powders. I love 1680 powder with 35 grain Hornady, but the reason I bought the .22 hornet is for the ability to shoot cast boolits. I am currently in the NOE group buy and hope that a lighter boolit will do the trick. I am sure some posts will be up in the future once I figure this little gun out. I can see why everyone who has mastered the hornet will always have a love for the round and the gun. It is a labor of love.

[uscra112]

The best powder by far iin my Hornet is Lil'Gun.

If you go to shoot cast, you need to clean, clean, clean all the copper fouling out. Many soak-and-patch-out cycles with a copper solvent cleaner may be required.

I'll be honest, I have never had much luck with cast in any .22, but probably because I was never able to get really consistent boolits from those little bitty moulds. I finally gave up and sold 'em all.

[bgoff_ak]

Can I ask because there are many here who are far more knowledgeable then I. the Greenhill Formula would suggest a tighter twist then others are suggesting, may I ask by what reasoning ( I pray for a formula ) that another basis is provided. I’m not saying any one is wrong I just wanted to know how to get from point a to point b. I’m really just trying to get past the fords are better then chevys or for you chevy guys that chevys are better than fords. ( look now your even, no need to reply ).

[Lloyd Smale]

two levels for me. I love the hornet and the 222 but the 223 wins hands down in the first catagory. Just to much free brass out there, its as accurate as the 222 and can be downloaded to hornet power. Upper end its the 22250 for me. It reaches out and touches things. It may not have the speed of the swift but brass is easy to come by and lasts a bit longer.

[waco]

I have a CZ527 in .221 Fireball and love it. Sub MOA gun with j-words. Have yet to shoot any cast through it.

[Bullshop]

Here is a target I fired from my 221 this week. The target says 17.1 gn Blue Dot but it should read 7.1 gn Blue Dot.70834

[Sensai]

Birch, my 22 Hornets both like the 225438 boolit with Lil'Gun and small pistol primers. My plinking load is the same with Trailboss powder. Each rifle takes a little massaging the load for the best accuracy, but both are happy with these two basic loads. The Trailboss load is great for squacks. I've decided to start dedicating the Ruger 77/22H to bullets and the Savage 340 to boolits.