steel cores

[docmagnum357]

I have a silly question. I understand the .22 rim fire cases can be made into pretty good jackets. I understand how to do it. I wonder of when you de rim the case, could you use a "sacrificial" piece of steel rod for a bullet core and pin to push the case through de rimming die. Steel wire can be had in almost infinite sizes and a steel core would have a lot of advantages. The main one is the lack of time and energy involved. Is it possible to put the steel core in the case, push it through the de rim die, and wind up with a de rimmed jacket with a steel core seated? All in one step? THis is wher I see the savings, time.A fellow could then put a small pellet of lead in the nose, point it up, and have something like a premium bullet. Or, he could just form an open tip and be done.

"Cores" would be easy to make with a small manual lathe, and if you were so inclined they could be almost the length of the case, or shorter to allow a lead core as well.

[clodhopper]

Usually when you put a core in a jacket the pressure on the core stretches the jacket.
Jacket springback on the dead lead (like no spring back) keeps the jacket tight.
If you can put enough pressure on the steel core to swage it into the jacket, it might work.
Reloading presses are not made to withstand the pressure needed.

[clodhopper]

Just read your older thread on the same subject.
When the first cave man tied a rock to a stick all his freinds probably told told him that he was crazy and it wouldn't work.
How many diffrent substances did Edison test to get an eletrict light bulb with some life?
The fire is in you, build a better bullet!

[R.Ph. 380]

Been watching these threads, What would keep one from using a steel nail of appropriate sized nail with flat head that can be cut shorter than the case. the lead can still be swaged to expand the case not reaching the cut off nail which will remain upright while the lead is pushed down around it and not extend above the level of swaging.

Bill

[DukeInFlorida]

My .22LR > .224 bullets ALREADY "walk" right through 1/4" steel like it was butter.

I can't imagine needing any more than that.

[MightyThor]

Keeping in mind that at any particular step you have to plan for the final outcome of a .224 projectile with a uniform ogive and tip, the difficulty would be to form the brass forward of the core so that you end up with a useable bullet. You cannot insert a core that is harder than the brass and then swage the point on that part of the bullet and core. The pressure will move the brass, squirting it out from between the two harder surfaces (die and core) If you use a core that is shorter than the point where the ogive is formed, you will have some difficulty getting the brass to form uniformly because it will be unsupported from within and will wrinkle. We have all seen this with light weight bullets with lead cores. It doesn't happen every time, but the less material in the tip, the harder it is to get a nice uniform bullet. So.... could you form a core from steel that has all the characteristics of the bullet you want and then fold the brass jacket around it so that it is the exact bullet you want? sure, but the effort put into forming the steel core would be horrendous compared to filling it with a lead core and smooshing it to the right size and shape.

You could certainly but a mixed core of steel and lead but keep in mind that the steel core will result in a difference in how the lead core forms compared to a pure lead core. The dies we have available to most of us are designed for a certain known use and combination, Results using different materials may exceed the strength of our tools.

[newcastter]

Duke, is that with WW or soft lead cores?


My .22LR > .224 bullets ALREADY "walk" right through 1/4" steel like it was butter.

I can't imagine needing any more than that.

[Lizard333]

IMO using anything harder than 7 BHN lead as your cores is not wise. Your putting way to much stress on your dies using the hard alloy as a core.

I've shot through 1/4 inch steel using HP 22LR jacketed 55 gn bullets. You send a projectile down range at over 3000 FPS your going to make some holes.

[Utah Shooter]

OP is not getting at the fact of whether or not they penetrate. He is looking for a solution to make projectiles with a steel bottom core of a specific weight. I do believe he would then put a lead shot at the tip for forming purposes.

His method is to try and get steel cores already to weight plus the bb for ease. I really would just suggest getting cores from Mr. and Mrs Hood though. Last time I was quoted it was reasonably cheap.

[Silver Eagle]

They would be lighter because of the density difference. This might also affect stability. A bonus would be not using up lead (that is getting harder to obtain).
Problems of getting the steel to copper junction to stay attached and not have a dramatic separation during flight will be problematic.

[Reload3006]

ask the folks on the discovery channel to do a show on "How its made" tell them you want to know how AP ammo is made. Can it be done Sure it can be done it is being done. Should you do it? What ever floats your boat. I am not going to experiment on a 1000 dollar set of dies to find out. Honestly I dont see any open season on armored vehicles that need killing I have no problem punching holes in paper and deer fall like a sack of rocks when hit with the lead cored bullets I make so whats your point? Really.

[OBIII]

Reload3006:

I would think that the only point needed (and has already been explained), is that "I was thinking of this idea. What do you think? Could it be done". If you do not wish to experiment, that's fine. Other people live to see what lies around the next corner.

OB

[MightyThor]

The OP proposed using a sacrificial steel punch to derim the jacket and thus save steps time and money. But with a steel core, you cannot use the core to bump the jacket out in the seating process. The Core and jacket have to be derimmed to .224 in the very first step. Means you have to have a special derim die that does this. None of the current dies will derim to .224. Once you have a slug at .224 it might be a bit of a chore getting it into a point die that is also at .224 . So to answer the question, can it be done, probably, but not with any of the die sets that we all currently use. Our die sets all progressively expand the core and jacket out to the final size. (except the one set that requires us to resize the oversize bullet after point forming)

[docmagnum357]

I think some of you guys finally understand what I am wanting to do, and I am beginning to understand some of the problems. I do not want an armor piercing bullet. My thoughts were to get the advantages of a steel core, move the center of gravity forward to increase stability, and simplify the process. With the faster twists available in .223 rifles now we can have a real game killer if we can make a bullet that will remain stable after impact and stay together or at least mostly stay together.

The Barnes "X" bullets are great, but expensive. If we could develop a bullet that wasn't a target of varmint bullet that could be made at home we would have gone a long way towards a one gun, one bullet, one load system.

[yruiz]

Most of what I have to say has been covered in various other posts, as I learned most of this by frequenting this site.

For a bullet that will stay together try a bonded core. You can also make partition bullets using a fired and cleaned out small rifle primer for the inner jacket.

If you want to move the center of gravity forward put a thin core in the jacket followed by a BB followed by the remainer of your lead core and seat. Steel obviously leads to a decrease in the sectional density which will lead to faster velocity loss. Also dropping the denisty will also decrease the penetrating ability of the bullet. The old Force=mass * velocity. I have also tried the BB seated in what will eventually be the ogive of the bullet. This creates something that explodes just like a varmint bullet but the BB after initiating expansion also continues to drive through.

All fun stuff to play with.

[7of7]

FN uses a copper jacketed aluminum core for the bullets in their 5.7X28 ammo. (not the Hornady bullets either) I speak of the ones the Brady Bunch was screaming about being cop killers..
This may be something worth looking into, but, I would think, that they are forming the jacket, then inserting the aluminum core.. they are hollow points, with an open boattail base. This makes for a 29 grain bullet, that is .750 in length.