Pickers / Flippers buying on S&S for the "sole purpose" of reselling on Auction sites

[KohlerK91]

Missed a good deal here a few weeks ago to a Flipper. That same deal is now on auction site for BUY IT NOW or BEST Offer.

I will not be making an offer and certainlly will not be BUYING IT NOW.

I will keep looking.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Post your want or need to wtt /wtb , maybe one of us here have what you are looking for , sorry to hear that someone used the site to further their fleabay account.

[Love Life]

What was the deal?

[JesterGrin_1]

I would also like to know who it was that purchased an item from someone on our site just to flip it? As a Person like that does NOT belong on our good site.

[oldfart1956]

Yup....and that's why I'm sitting on about 18 new and almost as many slightly used molds right now. (none of which I need or intend to use) Most of them Lee's but there's a Rapine in there also and a coupl'a Lymans. I'm snoopin' around in the various forums and trying to figger out who actually needs molds. Not them that's looking to make an easy buck. If I see they bought a mold and in another forum on the site they sold a bunch on E-Bay...they don't git contacted. New casters get bonus points as long as I don't think they're trolling for molds. I wish I knew an easy way to sort the wheat from the chaff...but I don't. And I don't want anyone thinking I'm being a prk about it either. I want these molds sold to them that needs them and can't get them and I want them sold here. I ain't in any rush either. They ain't costing anything sitting there. Now I'm goin' snoopin. :) Audie...the Oldfart...

[BIGRED]

OldFart,
I am relatively new at this (less than 4 months) and you guys have taught me alot... i have been reloading for 10+ years and contemplated using cast bullets but never did. I started casting for 45acp about 4 months ago and i am seriously hooked.... i recently started reloading for 380 and 9mm because i can't find any ammo. i had to buy cast bullets from Dardas and wait 2 months because there were no FMC available. but now that i am casting and totally enjoying it i would like to find molds for 380 & 9mm. any chance you have a TL lee in either one of these calibers. i have read that you can TL almost any type bullet but i have only used the TL molds. i have been sitting back waiting on good fair prices and not getting crazy like alot of others out there.

Thanks

[armedmoose]

Any chance it is just the same item listed around the same time as the CB item? or did they use the CB posted pictures also?

[sparky45]

Well I don't know about the rest of you but I buy Molds, cast what I need and double that amount ; then I sell the mold unless it's one I really like. That allows me to try many more molds than I could afford to buy and keep. For the most part I have been able to trade the molds for what I think I need. Also, I'm trying to get "streamlined" in number and caliber to make this hobby less expensive.

[Wayne Smith]

Audie, check out the Helping Hands section of Our Town. That is the whole purpose of that section.

[KohlerK91]

Post your want or need to wtt /wtb , maybe one of us here have what you are looking for , sorry to hear that someone used the site to further their fleabay account.



I posted a WTB and I am working a trade as I type.

[KohlerK91]

What was the deal?



I thought it was a deal. Even if it was $150 for shipping to CONUS

The older RL1050 with a few conversion and few extra tool heads and other accesories. Rebuilt by Dillon and not been used much since. This was the one in Hawaii. $1800 plus shipping I think was asking price. Sold in 6 minutes.

[John Allen]

The one thing I can guarantee is that it is not me. I have a hoarding issue!!! I can not bring myself to sell anything especially those pretty brass mihec molds.

[DenverDuck]

You got that 1050 before I could. I am interested in it if you want to sell it.

Dave

Above is the exact wording private message from the person who started this thread.


It is me, I make no bones about it. It was a good deal. I gave him his asking price - didn't even ask for a break. What I or other buyers do with purchases other people should not stick there noses into and is none of their business - in my opinion anyway.

I am a Vendor, paid my way and have sold/given lots of items to others on this board and many I am certain through other gun sites and eBay. Sellers don't force anybody to sell or to buy at any price, free market sets prices. THAT is the great thing about a free economy.

[xacex]

That's fine. I have the option to not sell to you in the future. Flipping a mold here or there is fine, but we have some good folks here that do their best to help people out, and you took that as an opportunity to make money off of the community.

[Wadestep]

I fully support this board's efforts to prevent speculating/flipping like this. If we can, then we will continue to be able to swap and sell among ourselves without being forced to buy from speculators at stupid 'bubble' prices. Otherwise, we might as well all just use fleabay instead.

[Huntducks]

Agree 100% this board is a special place and should not be a flippers or ebayers 2nd home, I'm also fed up with guys listing here at eBay prices.

[Glock Junkie]

If it wasn't for the good people on this forum I wouldn't have what I have for casting supplies. As a new caster its a bad time for getting supplies. What I get I'm very appreciative of and if I no longer need it it will go to someone who does.

[btroj]

Capitalism

[FLINTNFIRE]

Well I have passed on a item or so here as there are those who had posted they were looking for an item , I myself will not buy here to resell ,this to me is a site to help each other in our enjoyed hobby , I will not buy .22 shells at the inflated crazy prices asked by insane people taking advantage of the fears in this present time , sooner or later this to will pass .

[Love Life]

Whoa, whoa, WHOA!!!!!

Lets slow down here everybody. What a person does with the property they buy is their business. Plain and simple. If you miss out on a deal then that is your/my problem. It sucks because I have missed a few through the years, but I also keep my straw handy...

The only reasons the prices on the board remain reasonable are:
(A) Sellers set decent prices
(B) we are looking out for each other
(C) Overpriced items don't sell well here

Now if a person sells stuff here for a decent price, especially during this time, they are doing YOU/ME a solid. They could easily take those items to E-Bay or Gunbroker, make a killing, and you would NEVER even see the item or have the chance to purchase it.

Lets all just stop with the hate on each other for how things are bought and sold. If a price I good, then I buy the item. If the price is garbage then I curse the seller silently and move to the next listing.

As a matter of fact all I did was translate Btroj's post.

[EDG]

I strictly reserve the right to refuse to sell to any and all flippers and other types that practice fast buck turn over here at the expense of the members. If I want to deal with ebayer or other resaler I will just buy and sell on ebay. Sorry. Don't use capitalism as an excuse. I do not sell here to help you make a living, help you make a profit or help pay for your hobby activities. My point in selling here is to keep the tools within the community of people that share the activites of this site. If you want to operate as a commericial entity buying here to make a living you are functioning as a parasite of the membership competing against the members that would actually used the tools. I feel this behavior detracts from the purpose of the site.

[Love Life]

Truth

[TES]

I strictly reserve the right to refuse to sell to any and all flippers and other types that practice fast buck turn over here at the expense of the members. If I want to deal with ebayer or other resaler I will just buy and sell on ebay. Sorry. Don't use capitalism as an excuse. I do not sell here to help you make a living, help you make a profit or help pay for your hobby activities. My point in selling here is to keep the tools within the community of people that share the activites of this site. If you want to operate as a commericial entity buying here to make a living you are functioning as a parasite of the membership competing against the members that would actually used the tools. I feel this behavior detracts from the purpose of the site.


^ THIS. DenverDuck wont get anything from me. There should be a new rule added to selling / buying here. No flipping! Buy what you need and only that or get banned. I think that is the intent of the rules we have here now and this guy just slips through a loop hole when he finds a deal here.

[Love Life]

There is no loop loophole that DenverDuck slipped through. He can buy what he wants in any amount he wants unless a limit is set by the seller. I can buy any amount I want unless limits are set by the seller. You can buy any amount you want unless limits are set by the seller.

Who gives a flying coffee cup about need? People buy what they WANT!!!

New rule to ban people if they are discovered or suspected of flipping? How preposterous. How rude.

Not only that, but DenverDuck is a vendor sponsor. Based off of that status you can assume that he IS in the BUSINESS of buying and selling. He didn't flip the item he bought. He invested smartly with his money. You know...the whole buy low, sell high thing. Through out this craziness he has sold at decent prices on the forum, as have others.

Why don't all of you get off your high horses and leave people alone who buy and sell?

Get angry at them, call the d-bags, etc. That is your right. Restrict what they do? That is socialism so everybody gets their "Fair share" of an item.

[btroj]

A rule to restrict a free market? Is Obama a member here?

Love Life is right. What a person does with what the buy is up to them and them alone. Don't want to see it resold elsewhere? Then don't sell it, here or elsewhere. If I buy it I will do as I wish with it, I now own it.

Detracts from the purpose of the site? I use the site to share knowledge, not buy, sell, or trade "stuff". Swapping and selling could go away entirely and it wouldn't bother me. That section causes more whining than any other section.

Don't bother asking me what I intend to do with stuff I buy, it isn't any of your business.

I stick by my original response. Capitalism. You are either for it or against it. I am not using it as an "excuse", I am simply pointing out that our society depends on free trade of goods and services. Restrictions on free trade bug the heck out of me.

Maybe we should ban whining?

[TES]

Guys I am not and I don't think that anyone else has a problem with making a buck. The issue that I have here is Lets say that I was going to sell some of my surplus lead here to somebody who was going to use it. Because they are a member here I was listing it at a fair or below market price. Then a yahoo comes in here and buys it all and then turns around and sells it at an inflated price. What that person did was take advantage of a person with good intentions for the sole purpose of making a buck. That person also took materials from somebody here that could have used them and is now asking them to pay more for it if they want it. Its shady and I feel like it goes against the intentions of this site that is to help people here so they don't get screwed over somewhere else. I don't have a problem with capitalism as long as it does not tarnish peoples trust or good intentions. The guy selling the press posted it here not on Ebay. But I bet if he has another one to sell he will sell it there next time because that is were it will end up anyway. He could have made more money selling it elsewhere but chose to sell it here to someone that needed it.

[btroj]

Might be different if the seller was throne upset. The fact a guy missed out on a good deal and is now whining irritates me to no end. He won, you lost out. Period.

An item was posted and purchased. A guy who was a bit late on the purchase now complains because he wanted it for his personal use, not resale.

I am not buzzed by the idea of flipping but will not support any rules to reduce a free market. Flipping bugs me far less than whiners.

[waksupi]

It is no one's business how someone buys or sales here. This section of the board is here as a courtesy to the members. Who ever sells, sets his own rules. If you don't like that, I suggest you stay out of this section.

[John Boy]

I have a hoarding issue!!! I can not bring myself to sell anything
Me either John. I have close to 170 molds, old obsolete calibers that I'll probably never cast with and about 60 of different bullets for calibers that I have firearms for. Figure maybe one day I'll have the gun for the obsolete odd balls, like the 32-35 Stevens & Maynard and 40-40 Maynard

[Alvarez Kelly]

Guys I am not and I don't think that anyone else has a problem with making a buck. The issue that I have here is Lets say that I was going to sell some of my surplus lead here to somebody who was going to use it. Because they are a member here I was listing it at a fair or below market price. Then a yahoo comes in here and buys it all and then turns around and sells it at an inflated price. What that person did was take advantage of a person with good intentions for the sole purpose of making a buck. That person also took materials from somebody here that could have used them and is now asking them to pay more for it if they want it. Its shady and I feel like it goes against the intentions of this site that is to help people here so they don't get screwed over somewhere else. I don't have a problem with capitalism as long as it does not tarnish peoples trust or good intentions. The guy selling the press posted it here not on Ebay. But I bet if he has another one to sell he will sell it there next time because that is were it will end up anyway. He could have made more money selling it elsewhere but chose to sell it here to someone that needed it.

Or... you could list your stuff in the Team Boolits section. I recently sold some 44 magnum steel dies there. I posted there as I knew cast boolits reloaders liked 'em, and I knew my asking price would be tempting to a flipper. After the "I'll take them" was posted, I knew they went to a good home. Right Goodsteel? :-)

[300winmag]

I do not have a problem with someone that buys to re-sale, if the seller gets his asking price he is happy (done deal) on his end. The buyer now owns it, he can throw it away, give it away or re-sale. That does not mean the original seller will buy it back from him for more than he paid for it.
What I have a problem with is when someone is asking for help and in need of something, with nothing but the (INTENT) to sell and make money. I have been taken like that before, lied to for profit. Not on this site!! I try to show/ help out those that are willing to listen and learn, will give them what I can. Currently working with a young man loading on my equipment for his 45acp and 9mm, I have given him primer's, powder, books and brass, bullets.
300

[alrighty]

There is no loop loophole that DenverDuck slipped through. He can buy what he wants in any amount he wants unless a limit is set by the seller. I can buy any amount I want unless limits are set by the seller. You can buy any amount you want unless limits are set by the seller.

Who gives a flying coffee cup about need? People buy what they WANT!!!

New rule to ban people if they are discovered or suspected of flipping? How preposterous. How rude.

Not only that, but DenverDuck is a vendor sponsor. Based off of that status you can assume that he IS in the BUSINESS of buying and selling. He didn't flip the item he bought. He invested smartly with his money. You know...the whole buy low, sell high thing. Through out this craziness he has sold at decent prices on the forum, as have others.

Why don't all of you get off your high horses and leave people alone who buy and sell?

Get angry at them, call the d-bags, etc. That is your right. Restrict what they do? That is socialism so everybody gets their "Fair share" of an item.

I agree 100% with Love Life , btroj , and waksupi.If the seller wants to put a condition on the buyer then he has that choice.
I know it sucks to really want something and miss a deal , then only to find out it was bought for resale.That is life , I don't think we want to change the free market approach.There is always someone who needs something worst , who will decide if we are deserving enough?
This is a slippery slope some are wanting to go down and I don't like it.We have enough of a socialist agenda going on in D.C. these days.
My last point has already been brought up but not enough IMHO.DenverDuck or Paul as I know him through many purchases both here and on eBay.Paul is a fine guy to deal with , everything is always either in better shape than described or a larger amount than what he posted.That is one of the rules in becoming a successful business.The other is to buy cheap and sell high , sorry some people don't like that.Please remember that not all of us are into shooting and guns because it is a hobby , for some it is how they feed their family.
I have bought lots of items on here and I hope everything stays just the way it is.I am a classic hoarder and the swapping and selling is good for all of us.We all miss out on deals at times but be a man and get over it.

[HATCH]

Your upset because you didn't get the deal.
Deals are made every day on here.
I know of several 'flippers' as you call it but the bottom line is they were first. Not any different than someone else getting it before you.

What i don't like on this board is the fact that after something is sold they delete the lasting or allow the seller to edit the price out.
Makes it hard to determine the current market price for a item by looking at what the items sold for in the past.

[montana_charlie]

The issue that I have here is Lets say that I was going to sell some of my surplus lead here to somebody who was going to use it. Because they are a member here I was listing it at a fair or below market price.
If that was the way things actually happen, I might agree with you. But (not counting your lead) I haven't seen anything offered for sale lately that was priced 'low'.

I was looking at a listing for a pistol recently, and wondered how the seller's asking price compared to the rest of the world.
A quick look at Gunbroker and Guns America showed his price (for a used piece) was right up there with the highest figures being asked for new ones. There were also plenty of new ones at a hundred dollars less.

I'm not mad. A seller gets to choose his price based on how much he values his item.
It's up to me to buy, or not ... and the completed transactions I have been involved in have been satisfactory.

But, don't try to convince me that the noble views of the membership makes this the bargain basement.

CM

[KohlerK91]

[QUOTE=HATCH;2184415]Your upset because you didn't get the deal.
QUOTE]

Yes correct. but who am I suppose to tell that I missed out on spending almost 2k on more reloading equipment? My wife? She is probably glad I missed it.

[remy3424]

TES kinda hit on how I view this site and maybe few others...If I wanted big dollars I would put my item on fleabay, if I want a fellow caster, possible someone who I gained some insite from, I would offer it up here and at a fair price. I wouldn't want the stuff I might sell here to be turned for profit and big money...I could do that myself. I usually don't see members asking the big money prices on this board, so I guess this would be a great place for resellers to make some good buys....don't think that was ever the intent. To avoid the flippin of your stuff, put the big money on it and only the desperate newbees will be the buyers. Once this supply issue has corrected its self the traffic on the swappin board will die down and the ones looking will be the ones needing your stuff. Just my opinion and you all know about opinions...

[badge176]

I recently came upon a GREAT price on alot of .357 brass and easily could have scored it all from the member here (and easily could have sold it a a profit). But I did not, I bought a bunch, leaving a bunch for others to buy and I sold half of what I'd bought to a buddy in need at my cost. That's why I "shop" here, good stuff at good prices, I miss the pre-panic days...

"Don't pee in the pool, we're all neck deep" (and I for one don't want a mouthful).

[jgt]

Capitalism, free market, free enterprise, are all buzz word that add up to self justification. If you want to engage in this free enterprise free market then go out into the free market you keep talking about and do your buying and selling. All this defence of the flippers is so much bovine scatology. They are like coyotes coming to my back door looking for a free meal because it is easier than combing the countryside for a rabbit. If flippers want to go to garage sales, flee markets, or bargin stores to find a good price that is free market. When they come to a Cast Boolet website to prey on it's members who are offering good prices to help each other out then they are engaging in a paracitic practice and no amount of lipstick on that pig is going to make it pretty. If you can't or won't see the difference then you are either blind or one of them. Either way a spade is still a spade and will never be a rake.

[HATCH]

[QUOTE=HATCH;2184415]Your upset because you didn't get the deal.
QUOTE]

Yes correct. but who am I suppose to tell that I missed out on spending almost 2k on more reloading equipment? My wife? She is probably glad I missed it.


I don't like it either but there isn't any way to fix it really.
Yeah If I saw it sooner I would of bought it up myself.
I don't think I would of "flipped it" so soon but still I would of snatched it up

[Love Life]

Hmmmm. Interesting JGT. I'm either blind or a parasite.

This forum here IS a free market in the S&S section.If you haven't noticed, alot of the overly priced stuff does not sell. All the normally or just a lttle bit higher priced stuff sells like hot cakes. What has happened is the buyers AND sellers of this forum have set the price spectrums with their wallets and prices. More the buyers than the sellers though.

The price spectrums have not been set by the wallet on both Ebay and Gunbroker.

How is somebody buying something from somebody AT THE SELLER'S ASKING PRICE preying on them? Do tell.

[jgt]

If the shoe fits.........I'm just sayin.

[Love Life]

There is no shoe. You railed against the free market when referring to a free market (S&S).

Epic fail

Break it down for me. I want to know, specifically, how the S&S forum and the busniss conducted there is not the free market. Educate me.

[waksupi]

Sooooo, if we get something for a good price at a yard sale, we shouldn't sell it here for a profit?

[avogunner]

I AM A CAPATALIST through and through. I understand supply and demand completely and certainly enjoy it when supply is high and demand low (low prices). However, there's still something that just strikes me as wrong as when some folks "never let a crisis go to waste". Yeah sure, no one forces you to pay $100 for a brick of .22's but it just isn't right. I'm a simple man, a dumb retired jarhead and to me, it isn't really any different than showing up at disaster site with a truckload of generators and selling them to the victims for quadruple the price?

[jgt]

I don't think anything has to be explained any further than has already been discussed. If what I said doesn't apply to you then you have nothing to defend or get upset about. If it does apply to you then you know exactly what I am talking about and nothing further will be needed to explain it. Like I said if the shoe fits wear it, if not, it doesn't apply to you.

[Alvarez Kelly]

I AM A CAPATALIST through and through. I understand supply and demand completely and certainly enjoy it when supply is high and demand low (low prices). However, there's still something that just strikes me as wrong as when some folks "never let a crisis go to waste". Yeah sure, no one forces you to pay $100 for a brick of .22's but it just isn't right. I'm a simple man, a dumb retired jarhead and to me, it isn't really any different than showing up at disaster site with a truckload of generators and selling them to the victims for quadruple the price?

I'm not sure I follow your point. The buyer paid the seller exactly what the seller asked for his press package. The buyer then attempted to sell it, or some subset of it, for a profit. I say attempted, because I don't think it has sold yet.

I haven't added it up, but his asking price is not that far off, considering all the extras that come with it. If it doesn't sell, I'll bet he sells it in smaller packages. Nothing wrong with that. It's just more work!

[Love Life]

Ahhh, but it does need to be explained further. When you rail against something with nothing but emotion or feelings, then bad things happen. Like gun control.

Much like the gun control argument, when asked to lay out facts, you are stumped.

It is perfectly fine, and your right, to say "That guy who bought that and flipped it is evil." However; do not let your emotions and how you FEEL about something get in the way of facts.

S&S is a free market. The buyers and sellers are operating in a free market system. If they decide to keep what they buy, then good. If they decide to flip it, then good. Nobody is parasitic for buying and flipping. They are saavy.

[Alvarez Kelly]

I don't think anything has to be explained any further than has already been discussed. If what I said doesn't apply to you then you have nothing to defend or get upset about. If it does apply to you then you know exactly what I am talking about and nothing further will be needed to explain it. Like I said if the shoe fits wear it, if not, it doesn't apply to you.

I think Love Life nailed it. If you don't think the Swappin n Sellin Section is part of the free market, no further explanation will help you understand what capitalism is.

[jgt]

I think you just want to justify and argue and have the last word. You can have it. I said my piece. If you truely don't know the difference in what is being talked about here then I feel truely sorry for you as a human being but I believe you do.

[Love Life]

While I do enjoy having the last word, I need to justify nothing for myself. Your attempt to appeal to my emotional side has failed.

I understand exactly what is being talked about here. People feel angered and slighted that something posted here was bought, and then listed for higher on another sight. People are angered because they feel that is not what should happen on this forum. People feel angered because it should have gone to somebody who "needed" it.

So I understand that part. I have already aquiesced that people have the right to be angered at them and call them names. Doesn't matter if they are right or wrong. They still have the right.

What I don't understand is how the S&S section is not the free market. That is what I want an explaination on, but I understand I will not get it. No worries. I understand what capitalism and the free market is. I was just trying to break through the shell of people making claims based off of FEELINGS and not off of what really is fact.

[shooterg]

I've sold a bunch and bought more here(don't tell the bride that part!). I ask a price, somebody meets it or a decent offer, they buy it. Happy,happy,happy for me ! Ain't got time to check evilbay to see if it's being resold, and don't care. Bought a holster 2 weeks ago at a flea market for cheap, sold it here to a member for less than half of "store" price, and made some biscuit money(seeing as I'm retired, I usually sit in with the other town farts at Hardee's for the morning "town council" meetings). So I guess I'm an evil flipper. Don't like it - flip this !(image not available)

[Springfield]

I am a vendor here, and I sell stuff to try and make a living. And yet I have still given some stuff away to those who needed it. I didn't have to, it's just that I consider this place sort of a second family. We are here to help each other out. I make some leather stuff for free for family members, and I usually refuse payment when offered. Sure, it is perfectly legal and maybe even morally correct to buy low here and sell high, but personally I just consider it somewhat rude and selfish. I don't treat family members that way and I wouldn't like to be treated that way here. I had some extra moulds for sale, and I decided to put them on e-bay. Why? I needed the money. I have 2 kids and stuff comes up. I wish I could be Mr. Generous all the time and sell low but sometimes life gets in the way. But I didn't take advantage of this sight to do it, it was stuff I had had for years. Sometimes you need to watch the bottom line, but it is usually best you don't do it with friends and family.

[Hamish]

[QUOTE=HATCH;2184415]Your upset because you didn't get the deal.QUOTE]
Yes correct. but who am I suppose to tell that I missed out on spending almost 2k on more reloading equipment? My wife? She is probably glad I missed it.

2K to blow on reloading gear in one pop? Not the winner?

Wah. Get over it.

[HATCH]

This thread has run its coarse.
The same thing is being rehashed over and over.
I think this thread initially was just to vent the op frustration on how he was looking to buy to use and someone bought to resale.

This happens in every forum not just here.

[btroj]

Waksupi, if you don't intend to use it yourself you have no business shopping at a yard sale, others may need those items for their personal use!
We should also ban all pewter sales or posts. Those might be collectible and someone, somewhere may want to collect those items and here we are melting them down.

Silliness abounds. You bought it, you own it. Do as you wish.

[Sweetpea]

So let me see...

When I buy sheet lead at the scrappers, and take it home, smelt it, flux it, and make ingots to sell, should I have to disclose the price I paid for it, how much lp I used, how much sawdust, and the time it took?

Or do I list it at a fair price, and if it sells, somebody can throw it in the garbage if they want...

Some people need to myob...

Brandon

[Sweetpea]

Double post...

[angus6]

I thought it was a deal. Even if it was $150 for shipping to CONUS

The older RL1050 with a few conversion and few extra tool heads and other accesories. Rebuilt by Dillon and not been used much since. This was the one in Hawaii. $1800 plus shipping I think was asking price. Sold in 6 minutes.

6 minutes here but had been posted for 2 weeks other places

[MBTcustom]

I made the ultimate deal last year. I went into a pawn shop and found a Dillon 450. Whittled the guy down to $150 or something like that, then I sold it here for a small profit. The pawn guy was happy, I was happy, and the guy I sold it to got a good deal. All was well and everybody was happy.
That is not reality.
The reality of business is that you buy stuff as cheap as you can, and the original seller wishes he could have gotten more. Then you do your thing with packaging, modifications, service etc to drive the price up to make enough profit to keep the doors open. Finally, you sell your stuff to the public consumer at a price that you wish was higher, and he wishes was lower. Somebody has to lose in order to make a profit, and if you absorb that every time, your business is not long for this world.
Every deal is different, and usually one of the last two entities ends up on the short side of the deal.
I'm still getting the hang of charging an honest fee for the services I provide, because I know it's hard on the client, but if I don't, then I won't be selling them anything in the future because I can't keep the doors open. In fact, if you fail to make a profit that can be taxed in a certain number of years, Uncle Sam will jerk the rug out from under you, and all that good will I'd gonna have a heavier price tag than you bargained for.

So please don't look down on a business man for buying low and selling high.
It is nessisary for survival. It's an ugly reality of business that I try to find ways around as much as possible, but its like taking a #2 once a day: it's nasty, it stinks, but if you fail to comply you are SOL!!!
LOL!

[remy3424]

I view this site different that many. I viewed this as a community of folks with common interests which revolve around casting and included almost any shooting related activities. Almost everyone is here to learn or share experiences to help others. Maybe I am way off in my own little world on this but even the S&S board I have to imagine was not created to be a true Capitalist Market place, but maybe I am wrong....I thought that ebay was here for that. With this current supply shortage everyone and their brother might be joining fourms just to troll for stuff to resell for profit, one just needs to think of that when they list their surplus in our little market place. Sellers could add a quailification for buyers in their ad or price it where the buyer will be the end user...it is the sellers choice on who they sell to.

[FrankG]

Buy low inflate to the last penny that can be squeaked from the item ! Capitolism is great ! Soon it will be priced to where ya will need a boxcar of greenbacks to buy a single primer !
Glad I dont need any ! For I will use mine for what they were intended for !

[MBTcustom]

Well, there is a stark differance between a fair markup and gouging.
S&S is supposed to be for informal sales only. Fortunately, most fellers here adhere to that very well, and many are very informal about buying also. Heck I've seen a guy who claimed dibs moments after a thread was started, who stepped aside for the guy who sorrowfully called second because he had been looking for just that item for a long time. A true gentleman.
I've seen benefit auctions where it was obvious that the items being sold were he last thing on everyone's mind.
There is a solution to stingy money grubbers if any exist here (personally I thing we have less than our quota in that department) and that is overwhelming goodwill. It's contagious and effective. Most here would gladly give what they are selling if they thought somebody could really use it, and they do quite often.
No number of vultures can change that. We are blessed, and we will continue to be as long as we encourage goodwill.
Don't sweat the petty stuff. It is impossie to get away, or protect ourselves from true parasites 100% but we can make it so that their actions mean nothing.
I think we have a darn good thing going here, and that is not going to change any time soon.

[FrankG]

Goodsteel , you are right this is a good community and there are lots of very good people here .

But ........snipers ,pickers,flippers or what ever one wants to call them should have scruples about where they ply their trade .

[JesterGrin_1]

Goodsteel , you are right this is a good community and there are lots of very good people here .

But ........snipers ,pickers,flippers or what ever one wants to call them should have scruples about where they ply their trade .

They Should but as you can tell many do not. :(

[LC Press]

We all know everything goes for inflated prices on GB and EBay right now.

Why sell here at all?

There is a reason why we choose to but I am not going to presume to answer the question for anyone. Seems pretty evident to me.

I know I wouldn't buy the press here for the sole purpose of flipping it...

[OutHuntn84]

Ya know what I think its that no good seller's fault. He should have known what his item was worth when he tried to sell it. If he would have sold it at a fair market value there wouldnt have been any room for profit for any flippers! I suggest we (not me), as responsible buyers, avoid such purchases and "good deals" without first demanding to pay more! Who's with me?!?!? :kidding:

[390ish]

Flea market types kill me. Yes, flipping is legal. So is picking your nose in public and eating it.

[MBTcustom]

Flea market types kill me. Yes, flipping is legal. So is picking your nose in public and eating it.

I get what you're saying, but where do you draw the line?
I mean, to a certain extent, that is business right? Take the car you drive for instance. The manufacturer paid bottom dollar to have a 13 year old work a 16 hour shift to crank out the parts in china, they import them into the US, slap em together on the assembly line, and sold it to you for 10 times what they had in it.
You might argue that that is different.
Why? because they are far away? because they are rich? powerful? hmmmm. Why exactly would we have a different attitude towards a big chain?
I've got news for you, they are people. Just like you and me. You pay 10 times what your car is worth and say nothing of it, because its what you expect to pay. You don't mind them making a profit even though it was the kid in china that payed the highest price.
Furthermore, you wont sell that car for what it is really worth until it is used slap up, and is on its last leg. Does that make you feel bad?

Seriously, I'm just rambling. These are questions I have wrestled with for a long time, so please understand, I'm letting you in on a private conversation I have had with myself often. I'm not trying to beat you up, I'm just trying to get my head around where the line is really drawn.

Maybe i'm taking too broad a view of the issue (I apologize) but I can't help but compare apples to apples.
If flipping offends you (honestly, it chaps my hide a little too) why do we choose to focus on such a small area like our S&S section?
Why does it seem wrong, when we are surrounded by items that we bought and paid top dollar for, which made someone else rich at our expense, all the while, feeling like we achieved some sort of higher status by showing how much we can support the profiteers we bought the stuff from?

Right now, I am typing on a keyboard, looking at a computer monitor, and enjoying some nice A/C, none of which was bought with a second thought given to the motives of the schmucks that sold the stuff to me. When I bought all this stuff, I gave no thought to how much the previous owner gave for the materials etc, how much they marked it up, or how many people they trampled on before they sold it to me. I was just glad to own it.

Kind of makes you stop and think! Is there a right way to make a profit while selling at a reasonable price, and not screwing over anyone in the process (including the 13 year old in china)?

OK, now I'm depressed.
I think you are seeing a small example of what happens all over, and to be honest, I agree that it stinks. The thing is, if I call it wrong, then I am automatically a hypocrite because most of my meager income goes to support this very thing globally.
If there's an alternative, I sure don't know what it is.

[FrankG]

Something like restraint is a good place to start . Not jumping on something to make a quick buck , but instead give someone that would use it a chance to try it and then possibly offer it up again within this community . All this feeding frenzy in the air driving prices crazy sure doesnt go far to get more newbs involved . I just dont think that we as members of this community should contribute to the fever !

[A pause for the COZ]

I guess as sellers we need to be more careful. Speaking just for my self.
I have sold a few items recently on this site. If my intention was profit, I could have sold them on Ebay for twice the money.
I chose not to feed the frenzy and wanted to offer them to a deserving person. I offered them here at reasonable prices.

In the past I needed not to worry about that. I consider this our community.

Any future offers for sale. I will add a disclaimer. " Person offing to buy this item agrees to acquiring this item for their own private use and will agree to not resell the item for 1 year."
I know it does not really mean any thing except a person buying for resale would loose the. "Its a free market" excuse.
They would have to own up to the fact ( even if just to them selves) They took a item from a members use to make a quick buck at their expense.

[warf73]

Glad I came across this thread, I have 6 or 7 molds that I was going to sell here for under new price since they are used (in like new shape), to help someone out to get going a little cheaper than new. Like it was when I was new to the forum, help your fellow casting brother out.
I'll just sell the items on ebay since I can get 2~3 times what I paid for them since the board thinks its so great for flips to do there busness here. The items will end up on ebay anyways so I'll just cut out the middle man.

Thanks Warf

[JesterGrin_1]

Warf the good thing is that you can sell who you wish to. Just do a little searching on what the purchaser does. And if you are not comfortable with them sell to someone else.

Yes it will take a little bit more time on your part to find a good person for what you wish to sell. Or heck even give away. :)

[waksupi]

Glad I came across this thread, I have 6 or 7 molds that I was going to sell here for under new price since they are used (in like new shape), to help someone out to get going a little cheaper than new. Like it was when I was new to the forum, help your fellow casting brother out.
I'll just sell the items on ebay since I can get 2~3 times what I paid for them since the board thinks its so great for flips to do there busness here. The items will end up on ebay anyways so I'll just cut out the middle man.



Thanks Warf

I kind of agree. I sell on Ebay and elsewhere, because some here like to be dick heads about things. I sell a few things here, but if I figure I can actually make some bucks, you better be looking for me on Ebay and other places! The aforementioned dick heads do not inspire me to offer any great deals here. I do some private deals with people, much more than public. I do hope they choke on the fact I have sold some pretty rare and hard to get rifles and molds elsewhere for much more than I would have, and in the distant past have, asked for here.

[TES]

Warf,

What molds do you have? I'm getting into the bullet manufacturing business and would like to add variety to my line up.

[Hogdaddy]

I think he ment Richard Noggin ; ) :kidding:
H/D

[EDG]

For all the flipper defenders. I have a few items that I have long considered posting on a pay it forward basis but I am sure a flipper would swoop in and pick it off and then resell it somewhere.
Defend them if you want but you can see many of the same guys that probably have their smart phones set to ding them when a new item is posted to they can hit it first. Not only do you see them here but the same guys are on 4 or 5 other sites too.

[TheGrimReaper]

I would also like to know who it was that purchased an item from someone on our site just to flip it? As a Person like that does NOT belong on our good site.Very,Very Well Said!!!

[7of7]

There are always going to be people that take advantage of others good will to help others by offering something at a low price. I would hope that our vendors here wouldn't take part in that behavior. I don't see anything wrong with buying something, then figuring out it isn't going to work for you and selling it. However, if there is something listed, and one snapps it up just because they know that they can flip it and make some money on it.. that is their right to do it, but it takes away from those who don't really have the money for the inflated prices in the open marke. I would just ask them to show a little restraint for the stuff that is offered here in order to allow others who are buying it for themselves to use, an opportunity to purchase it.. or as some other members did here, step aside and allow someone else to make the purchase.

[Love Life]

Wow. I love a toxic selling environment.

I love all the insinuations that have been posted since I last left this thread. Maybe not directed towards me, maybe so, but who cares?

Since this thread started with crying, continued with crying, I will go ahead and end my part on it with my own sob story.

I sell 308 brass. I drive some 8 hours to pick it up. I drive it back. I work 11 hours a day, and when I get home I spend another 5 1/2 hours per night cleaning, prepping, writing receipts, and packaging so I can ship in a timely manner. I clean in SS media free of charge. I (me) have invested the money in fuel, equipment and postage. I invest my hours of my life. Your are looking at a minimum of 3 1/2 hours per 1,000 pieces of SS cleaned brass. If I swage the pockets you are looking at 4 1/2 hours for 1,000 pieces. If I prep the brass fully you are looking at close to 7 hours per 1,000 pieces of brass.

I sell the cleaned brass for $205.00 per 1,000 shipped. I am absorbing the $16.35 per 1,000 shipping, fuel going to the post office, etc.
I sell cleaned and swaged for $240.00 per 1,000 shipped. I absorb the above.
I no longer offer prepped brass.
Those I prices I offer exclusively for CastBoolits members.

I got into this for 2 reasons. So I could get my own stash of 308 brass and because I was tired of people listing cleaned only 308 brass for $35.00 per 100 or $250 and above for 1,000 and our members having to eat those prices due to no other options. I also sell to make money. That is what you do when you are in business. Am I wrong for wanting to make money off of my hard work? I am assuming that DenverDuck is also in the business of selling stuff to make money. When you do that you buy as cheap as you can and sell for more than you paid. That is how it works. DenverDuck has been with us awhile and has listed some great items at very reasonable prices. I hope he/she continues to do so in the future.

I find it absurd to put conditions on people buying stuff. Once they buy it they own it. It is theirs. They may do whatever they please.

Many have stated that they can choose who they sell to and can refuse sale.

I can do the same thing. You all may now go purchase my brass on Gunbroker for $240.00-$260.00 per 1,000+$16.35 shipping, and any pay pal fees. I stand with DenverDuck and I stand with all other sellers. Now if you'll excuse me I have to get back to what I was doing before the fair share act gets implemented.

[MBTcustom]

And so it continues.
May I make a suggestion to all concerned?
If you missed out on a sale because someone got there first, mind your own beeswax and let them enjoy their purchase how they wish.

If you are a vender, and enjoy doing good to the cast boolits crowd, don't let one case of sour grapes rob you of your good deeds and all the rest of the cast boolits fellers from a good deal they can really use.

Look fellers, we are a family here. Sometimes we give stuff away, sometimes we sell it. That's a darn sight better than you get when you hit the little red X at the top right of the screen. Soon as you do that, you are going to be dealing with sellers and customers who don't give a darn about each other, and that is the opposite of what we do here.
I think that for the most part, we do our level best by the fellers here, and that is the Gods honest truth, and 99% of the time that is true of the cast boolits crowd.

Hell, go outside and shoot something for cryin out loud LOL!

[jgt]

Some folks love to play the victim. This thread is about flippers. It has nothing to do with sellers. Sellers put a price on their items and someone will buy their items if the price is ok with them. The issue is about a forum classified ad board that was for members to help other members by pricing surplus item so other members could get what they needed to engage in this hobby. When flippers take advantage of the board for purposes that were not intended, we have every right to call them on it. There is absolutely no need for anyone to get their panties in a wad over it except the guilty parties. If that shoe doesn't fit then there is no need to wear it. So stop with all this self justification on the part of people selling as vendors on the board. No one was talking about you. We were discussing "FLIPPERS" buying here for the purpose of reselling on e-bay for a profit at the expense of good hearted people trying to help fellow members. We know about business 101 and have no need for you to educate us on economics. We aren't advocating communism or any other such nonscence. What is at issue here is integrity.

[WILCO]

I've seen some pretty ignorant posts in this thread. Sad how folks don't understand basic economics. Besides the government, nobody can make you purchase anything for a price you don't want to pay. It's such ignorance that has brought us to where we are today as a nation.

[Balduran]

I believe that the word "family" you spoke is key Goodsteel.
The people here who consider their fellow casting afficinadoes family are incensed that uncle Larry sold his nephew Paul a item for less than its value to help him out. However Paul sold the item for full value to Joe down the street to get some extra scratch so he can get into Sally pants.
Others may be here for the opportunitys, and that is fine.
In my opinion, it is up to the seller to be vigilant over his sales. If you want your stuff to go to family then say so in your add and watch who you sell to. If you don't care who buys it that's fine as well.
The one who missed a deal has no place moaning. That is for a seller who found he was taken in by a phony sob story .
I am willing to bet that none who are vendors here would make an offer to someone who stated that their undervalued price was a consideration to family.
Jody

[justing]

i will admit that i sell on eBay, but what i sell DOES NOT COME FROM HERE! and i cant see why some one would take advantage of this awesome group of castboolit members in such a way.

[Fishman]

Several people have mentioned the words "family" and "friends". That is how I view someone I am dealing with in the swapping and selling section. There is no way I would buy something from a friend for less than it is worth and then turn around and sell it for a profit. Nor would I expect them to turn around and sell an item I sold to them at less than market value to help them out. Friends don't do that to one another.

That is a distinction that some don't make.

Using free market and capitalism to justify taking advantage of a friend's generosity is immoral. If you don't consider the members of this site to be like friends and family then it is simply a business transaction.

I really like Springfield's take on this.

[BrassMagnet]

Your upset because you didn't get the deal.
Deals are made every day on here.
I know of several 'flippers' as you call it but the bottom line is they were first. Not any different than someone else getting it before you.

What i don't like on this board is the fact that after something is sold they delete the lasting or allow the seller to edit the price out.
Makes it hard to determine the current market price for a item by looking at what the items sold for in the past.

I have purchased a number of items in the Swapping & Selling forum where the thread was deleted before I was able to print it out. A printed out copy of the thread is the best idea I have come up with to quickly and easily let the seller know what item the check or USPS MO is paying for. I can print it out and stamp it with my address stamp and drop it in the mail.

Let's keep this forum friendly and quit the public whining about being too slow to snatch up a great deal. If you have to publicly "whine" post a "That was fast! Two minutes!" or what ever. Or just send a PM to the buyer.

[BrassMagnet]

For all the flipper defenders. I have a few items that I have long considered posting on a pay it forward basis but I am sure a flipper would swoop in and pick it off and then resell it somewhere.
Defend them if you want but you can see many of the same guys that probably have their smart phones set to ding them when a new item is posted to they can hit it first. Not only do you see them here but the same guys are on 4 or 5 other sites too.

This is what the Helping Hands forum is for. Let the members that want it either PM or email you. Browse their posts and make your own choice about who gets the item.

[BrassMagnet]

Now I am going to make a few last comments before I leave this thread and never return to it.

I have bought many items from Denver Duck and he has treated me very well. He has sold me items I want at very fair prices. He has given me quantity discounts. He has even held items I wanted while I waited for more income to arrive in my checking account. I have never been less than totally satisfied with Denver Duck deals. Denver Duck is a Straight Shooter of the highest caliber.
I dislike whiners who question the integrity of other, better men.

[starmac]

Personally, I would rather deal with a flipper than a whiner any day of the week, whether I am buying or selling.

[Old Caster]

What if someone would list something here for sale at a very high price and say that the only reason the price was so high is because they desperately needed money. Which one of the "great friends" on this site would buy it first before someone else had the chance.

A lot has been said recently about the ridiculously high prices that Cheaper than Dirt is charging for their products. Simple, I won't buy from them until their prices are less than I can find anywhere else and then I will buy and if they are never cheaper then I will never buy from them. No one makes you buy or sell a certain way unless you have a socialistic or communistic culture or government and it is clear to me that we are heading there in a hurry. One would think that a gun site would be loaded with very conservative people but it is clear that it isn't. I would be afraid to guess how many people here voted for the party that pushes the very socialistic ideas that we ought to despise.

[LC Press]

What if someone would list something here for sale at a very high price and say that the only reason the price was so high is because they desperately needed money. Which one of the "great friends" on this site would buy it first before someone else had the chance.

A lot has been said recently about the ridiculously high prices that Cheaper than Dirt is charging for their products. Simple, I won't buy from them until their prices are less than I can find anywhere else and then I will buy and if they are never cheaper then I will never buy from them. No one makes you buy or sell a certain way unless you have a socialistic or communistic culture or government and it is clear to me that we are heading there in a hurry. One would think that a gun site would be loaded with very conservative people but it is clear that it isn't. I would be afraid to guess how many people here voted for the party that pushes the very socialistic ideas that we ought to despise.

The structure of a government financial system is much different than a small group mindset.

I am more Conservative in its real form than anyone on this site I would wager. But I still wouldn't flip a "deal" that was offered here.

Some saying they are conservative are probably more of the Anarchist mind set. I guess the grouchy, old men at the gun shows have found out how to use the interwebz...

I had a Lee Classic Turret kit to put up here but I may as well go to EBay with it...

[alrighty]

If anyone wishes to now take their items to eBay , do what you wish as it is yours.I do so hope that the ones doing this will put back a little of the profit and think about donating to the site.That is exactly what DenverDuck used to do with his.Congratulations to all the whiners , you have succeeded.
I received a p.m. from DenverDuck and he will not be renewing his site sponsor status.That IIRC was $1000.00/year that Ken will no longer have to keep this forum operational. I hope he don't mind but here is a copy of his p.m. to me including the one he sent to the site owner.
Just wanted to say thanks to some of you for all the purchases. I sent the following note to Ken yesterday...... Best of regards... Paul
"Please do not renew my status as a vendor. If you recall, I wanted to do the right thing and pay you as a vendor because I buy and sell reloading gear on a part time basis. It just didn't seem right to do that without compensating you.

I am sure you have seen the thread going on in the reloading section about me buying the Dillon 1050 press at the seller's asking price and reselling it because I knew it was undervalued.

I know you have a successful site here and have many vendors and advertisers so I know I will not affect you much by leaving as a vendor/buyer/seller.

Paul"
I do hope he changes his mind and I am sure that our forum could use the funds that now seem lost.I also hope that the ones using the "we are friends and family" will put their money where their mouth is and donate like many of us do that honestly feel that way.

[TES]

Um...Bye.

[Old Caster]

I have never dealt with Paul but it is just because I never needed what he happened to offer or at least that I was aware of. Paul, as you probably know, whiny liberals that have just one conservative aspect, (guns) always shove their way to the front like they do in all aspects of life. The silent majority that just sits back and watches are always very conservative . Liberals always know what is best for everyone which is why they always want to make another rule to hold conservatives (entrepreneurs) back, basically because they are jealous of their success (rich guys in their mind). I hope you continue to do what you do and don't worry about the few knuckleheaded posts you see here and be your own man. This isn't the first time someone tried to stifle you and it won't be the last. Prices are always set from supply and demand. You remember the phrase that went something like "grouchy old white men clutching their guns". Well surprise, surprise, there are quite a few black and asian people that are conservative and like guns also LC, and as far as computers go I bought my first one in kit form and had to put it together in 1979 which is probably before you were born. Spin your liberal ideas while claiming you are a conservative somewhere else. Real conservatives will prevail in America where real Americans live. -- Bill Lau --

[hardcase54]

Agree with Oldcaster 100%

LCPress, you FLIP $12 .22's (ignore list #1)

TES UM... Bye...(ignore list #2 wish you could be first but that spot is taken)

I'm just a Grouchy old guy( tired of whiners.)

[MBTcustom]

Unbelievable.
I don't put people on my ignore list. It is empty. However, there are a few special members that make it onto my "watch very closely" list.

[TES]

I love it the guys that start spouting off "free market and capitalism" are now the whiners. Yes free market and supply and demand are components for his trade but so are the peoples opinion of him. The free market has decided that this guy is not up to par and so he decided to leave. That was his decision too. Now "the free market" is not OK? Make up your minds you're the one flip flopping and sounding a bit Liberal. Ignore me.....I could care less.

Old caster : No rules were mentioned that would stop a guy from selling or trading here. Just to prevent folks from coming here to flip a product else were. The fact that this guy bought it here and listed it somewhere else is shady.

Why didn't he turn around and try and resell it here? Because he din't want people to know.

Why is he leaving? Because he does not feel welcome here. OK go.

It's just like the old freedom of speech argument. Go ahead and say what you want but don't get your panties in a twist if people get mad at you and don't want to support you anymore.

[JesterGrin_1]

If the People that the Shoe Fits then they are free to take there Ball and Leave. This Forum has a Strong Foundation and with the help of some will remain that way.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/Dontletdoorhitya_zps2300b566.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/SHAKERATTLEROLL/media/Dontletdoorhitya_zps2300b566.jpg.html)

[Alvarez Kelly]

I have gotten many good deals from Paul over the years. I think he got a bum rap here.

[R.Ph. 380]

Some of the worst fights and most heated arguments I have ever seen happen between "family" members. That's because everyone has their own ideas of what is "right" and "fair". If someone's actions don't match what you think, why, you become all incensed and just have to register your opinion. Remember what opinions are like and how much they are worth. If someone buys within the rules the item is THEIRS to do with what they like.

If everyone here wants to have a freebee section where only those who "NEED" something get to bid, you're going to have to build a larger bureaucracy than the Feds and even then there is going to be errors. How about just letting the free market work and go about our own business?

Bill

[TES]

In this instance I think it did.

[Love Life]

No, TES, the free market did not work in this instance. If a free market would have worked, then Denver Duck would have moved his business elsewhere due to keen competition.

What happened here is a bunch of whiny bitches drove a respected Vendor Sponsor away by insulting him and questioning his integrity for no reason whatsoever.

I would once again spell out how the free market works for you but it would be a waste.

[TES]

No, TES, the free market did not work in this instance. If a free market would have worked, then Denver Duck would have moved his business elsewhere due to keen competition.

What happened here is a bunch of whiny bitches drove a respected Vendor Sponsor away by insulting him and questioning his integrity for no reason whatsoever.

I would once again spell out how the free market works for you but it would be a waste.

He did move it to a place with more keen competition. That is what led him to leave.

It says you are a vendor sponsor too. Attacking your client base is a pretty dangerous tactic. They might start to feel the same way about you as they did him considering you are defending him. This is a part of the "free" in free market. We as purchasers have the right to buy from who we want too.

[thehouseproduct]

I have gotten many good deals from Paul over the years. I think he got a bum rap here.

+1 he's local to me and I've had plenty of great deals from him.

[LC Press]

Agree with Oldcaster 100%

LCPress, you FLIP $12 .22's (ignore list #1)

TES UM... Bye...(ignore list #2 wish you could be first but that spot is taken)

I'm just a Grouchy old guy( tired of whiners.)

No I didn't. I purchased bulk (10k I believe) from my LGS a long while ago. So years later I sold 3 value packs...not exactly a quick flip. I sold the second pistol I ever purchased for more than I bought it 15 years ago...is that a flip? Please...

[Love Life]

It says you are a vendor sponsor too. Attacking your client base is a pretty dangerous tactic. They might start to feel the same way about you as they did him considering you are defending him. This is a part of the "free" in free market. We as purchasers have the right to buy from who we want too.

I wish to not sell to the people who outright attacked and vilified a person for no other reason than to puff their chests out and "Stand up against the man!!" on this thread.

I as a seller have the right to sell to who I choose to. As does Denver Duck, and ya'll ran him off. He has sold brass on here for great prices before, along with lubesizers, and other equipment. Now we (ALL OF US) have lost that source of brass and equipment. What ya'll have done is hamstring the rest of the members who like purchasing from him and looked forward to his future offerings.

It goes both ways. As buyers you have the right to choose who to buy from. However; if you choose not to buy, then others have the opportunity to buy the item. Now nobody has the opportunity to buy his products.

What ya'll fail to realize is you have not ruined Denver Duck in your self righteous witch hunt. It is a sellers market right now, and now others will get to buy from him while we, well, can't anymore.

So who was hurt here? Not Denver Duck. The board as a whole has been hurt, the forum has been hurt by the loss of future vendor sponsor fees, and a person has been hurt by insults and insinuations.

You come on here and rail about family, and the "Need" of others. You have been here since February. You are the in-law who has lost his job and is now leaning on us for a helping hand in both knowledge, and goods in our S&S section.

We have been here for the entirety of the craziness. We (members here when the craziness started, and before I was a vendor sponsor) set the market with our wallets and our prices. You have swooped in to enjoy that and you dare ridicule a long standing member and vendor sponsor?

How many items have you listed as benefit auctions? How many items have you given away to members in helping hands, and before that, just to members? How much have you donated to the forum since you have been a member to keep the forum running? Who have you personally helped with anything in this family? What have YOU brought to the family?

Pha!! You dare attempt to slyly threaten me with loss of sales? Psh.

Everybody should be ashamed (I guess me too)!!!

[possom813]

I've just spent the last half hour or so reading the posts in this thread.

It pisses me off to see adults carrying themselves in a manner such as this.

This all started because one gentleman got his feelings hurt because a SPONSOR of castboolits beat him out on a deal, and didn't really do anything wrong.

Now there are members calling other members names and acting like they're the biggest pecker on the playground.


I don't care for that, I'm highly pissed off that a SPONSOR has been driven away, and I read another post of another SPONSOR voluntarily resigning their SPONSOR title(I believe that thread has been deleted).


Granted, this forum has a different feel about it compared to others, that feeling is completely lost in this thread. The camaraderie that is commonplace has been thrown out the window in favor of antagonizing one another just because we disagree on the way the free market system works.


Quite honestly, once an item is purchased, it's now the property of the new owner, to do whatever the hell he wants to do with it. You miss out on a deal for something you really need, sorry about your luck. Suck it up and move on.

It's obviously not something you really need if it isn't posted in the 'want to buy' forum, you just missed a great deal on something and now your butthurt because someone else beat you to the punch.

My point is, a SPONSOR, someone who pays money to buy, sell, and trade on this site is now gone because of an item he bought to sell. Do you see the problem here?

And now, another SPONSOR, who's posts I usually enjoy, and are entertaining seems to be on the verge of leaving. That's quite aggravating. I may not always agree with a post, but BY GOD, I will not draw it out over six pages because I don't like the way someone carries themselves.


The Helping Hands section was created to help people that are in 'need' of something, the want to buy is there if you're trying to find something that is very difficult to locate.

The s&s forum is there to buy, sell, trade and if you get a good deal, awesome, if you just miss a good deal, welcome to the club.

And, just because it's warranted, and I haven't seen anyone say it,

TES, you're a troll and probably a liberal, at least in my humble opinion.

When I figure out how the ignore button works, you'll be the first person on my list.

I know I haven't been here but a few months, you've been here a few weeks and are calling for drastic changes to the forum, and calling out that there should be a, "no flipping" rule, how the hell would that work anyways?



I'm done here, just had to call what I see in this thread.

[NWFLYJ]

"Greed, envy, sloth, pride and gluttony: these are not vices anymore. No, these are marketing tools. Lust is our way of life. Envy is just a nudge towards another sale. Even in our relationships we consume each other, each of us looking for what we can get out of the other. Our appetites are often satisfied at the expense of those around us. In a dog-eat-dog world we lose part of our humanity.”
Jon Forman

[Ajax]

Gentlemen and Ladies,
This thread has embarrassed me to no end. I use to think of us as a family. but the attacks i have seen in this thread have me wondering.
I have never dealt with denverduck. I have not heard his name in staff which is a very good thing. Those of you who made it your sole purpose to chastise this man and run him off i will pray for you. Denverduck i hope you will reconsider leaving but if you must i for one understand. This is not indicative of this site. I want all of you to take a look at your role in this and see if that's how you would want to be treated in a similar situation. If this is how you plan to react to a minor incident then i would recommend you stay out of swapping and selling. Staff does not get involved in sales for a reason. I for one find it extremely offensive that someone would throw a fit because he wanted something but didn't post a WTB and then wanted to piss and moan about it. I think you guys need to re-evaluate things and come to your own conclusions about what is right.


Andy

[TES]

I wish to not sell to the people who outright attacked and vilified a person for no other reason than to puff their chests out and "Stand up against the man!!" on this thread.

I as a seller have the right to sell to who I choose to. As does Denver Duck, and ya'll ran him off. He has sold brass on here for great prices before, along with lubesizers, and other equipment. Now we (ALL OF US) have lost that source of brass and equipment. What ya'll have done is hamstring the rest of the members who like purchasing from him and looked forward to his future offerings.

Again this is a two way street...there are a lot of sellers here that are just now going to take it to ebay.

It goes both ways. As buyers you have the right to choose who to buy from. However; if you choose not to buy, then others have the opportunity to buy the item. Now nobody has the opportunity to buy his products.

Again problem solved.

What ya'll fail to realize is you have not ruined Denver Duck in your self righteous witch hunt. It is a sellers market right now, and now others will get to buy from him while we, well, can't anymore.

We don't want the Ebay buys or sellers go there do that

So who was hurt here? Not Denver Duck. The board as a whole has been hurt, the forum has been hurt by the loss of future vendor sponsor fees, and a person has been hurt by insults and insinuations.

Are you kidding..the board has been hurt by the fact that there are people coming here looking for the opportunity to buy here and sell there. What it has done is made good folks with good intentions weary of the of profiteers.

You come on here and rail about family, and the "Need" of others. You have been here since February. You are the in-law who has lost his job and is now leaning on us for a helping hand in both knowledge, and goods in our S&S section.

What? You feel so entitled as to put another man down? You feel better about yourself with this kind of response? How many ways can you tie a knot...please do explain. Where you not new here too at one point? I wonder how many of your posts here are argumentative vs constructive.

We have been here for the entirety of the craziness. We (members here when the craziness started, and before I was a vendor sponsor) set the market with our wallets and our prices. You have swooped in to enjoy that and you dare ridicule a long standing member and vendor sponsor?

I don't care how long you have done this for. Keeping up standards often gets lost in profit margins. Those that confuse the two often get side lined and dismissed. Mainly because they start to get a god complex.

How many items have you listed as benefit auctions? How many items have you given away to members in helping hands, and before that, just to members? How much have you donated to the forum since you have been a member to keep the forum running? Who have you personally helped with anything in this family? What have YOU brought to the family?

I don't care how long you have done this for. Keeping up standards often gets lost in profit margins. Those that confuse the two often get side lined and dismissed. Mainly because they start to get a god complex....agian

Pha!! You dare attempt to slyly threaten me with loss of sales? Psh.

No...you do a good job of that already Love life...you are truly a one side of the coin kinda guy. By that I mean... how dare you disagree with me..(your words not mine) I'm the guy that is always right...I'm the guy that has been here longer than all of you...I'm the guy that can't be wrong...all the people here that disagree with me are wrong. How many people have you agreed with since your infinite wisdom? My guess....1/2 as many as you have disagreed with.

Everybody should be ashamed (I guess me too)!!!

In 22/22 all the guy had to do was say " I'm sorry of I offended anyone. I won't do it again." and this.....well...wouldn't be an issue.

[RoyEllis]

I've just spent the last half hour or so reading the posts in this thread.

It pisses me off to see adults carrying themselves in a manner such as this.

This all started because one gentleman got his feelings hurt because a SPONSOR of castboolits beat him out on a deal, and didn't really do anything wrong.

Now there are members calling other members names and acting like they're the biggest pecker on the playground.


I don't care for that, I'm highly pissed off that a SPONSOR has been driven away, and I read another post of another SPONSOR voluntarily resigning their SPONSOR title(I believe that thread has been deleted).


Granted, this forum has a different feel about it compared to others, that feeling is completely lost in this thread. The camaraderie that is commonplace has been thrown out the window in favor of antagonizing one another just because we disagree on the way the free market system works.


Quite honestly, once an item is purchased, it's now the property of the new owner, to do whatever the hell he wants to do with it. You miss out on a deal for something you really need, sorry about your luck. Suck it up and move on.

It's obviously not something you really need if it isn't posted in the 'want to buy' forum, you just missed a great deal on something and now your butthurt because someone else beat you to the punch.

My point is, a SPONSOR, someone who pays money to buy, sell, and trade on this site is now gone because of an item he bought to sell. Do you see the problem here?

And now, another SPONSOR, who's posts I usually enjoy, and are entertaining seems to be on the verge of leaving. That's quite aggravating. I may not always agree with a post, but BY GOD, I will not draw it out over six pages because I don't like the way someone carries themselves.


The Helping Hands section was created to help people that are in 'need' of something, the want to buy is there if you're trying to find something that is very difficult to locate.

The s&s forum is there to buy, sell, trade and if you get a good deal, awesome, if you just miss a good deal, welcome to the club.

And, just because it's warranted, and I haven't seen anyone say it,

TES, you're a troll and probably a liberal, at least in my humble opinion.

When I figure out how the ignore button works, you'll be the first person on my list.

I know I haven't been here but a few months, you've been here a few weeks and are calling for drastic changes to the forum, and calling out that there should be a, "no flipping" rule, how the hell would that work anyways?



I'm done here, just had to call what I see in this thread.

I couldn't have said it nearly as well...I've kicked myself in the shins for not logging in early enough to catch some brass sales on S&S (great deals I could've personally used).
But here we have griping about what someone else did with something they bought at posted asking price. Guess what? IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!!!! If I sell you a hundred dollar bill for fifty cents & you choose to wipe your orifice with it, IT'S NONE OF MY BUSINESS! YOU bought it, it's YOURS...NOT mine nor anyone else's. I've read ALL the rules for the S&S forum, nowhere does it say member x has to ask permission from all other members to get approval to do what he wishes with what is now HIS PROPERTY.
Some of the posts I've read on this thread sound like poster children for Obama's entitlement cheering section and should (but won't) be ashamed.

[Love Life]

Well..for someone with so much experience you sure are doing a good job of not showing it. It I were a vendor I would not even touch this thread with a ten foot pole.

Second...all the guy had to do was say sorry If I offended and revoke the vulch. Simply put I wont do it again. Ebayers stay on ebay. Sellers here sell here. That is why there are rules for multiple postings of the same item from site to site. he just made a purchase first.

Hahaha!!!!

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?197232-20th-Century-Motor-Company

I already made the decision days ago so that I can and will stand with a person who was vilified for no reason. I'm not sure if you heard, but when you PAY to be a vendor sponsor, that allows you to post multiples of the same item on separate forums. Also you can sell in bulk in a non casual way. So, as you can see, I was free to wade into this one. A man was wronged. I stood with him and I continue to stand with him. He paid his way, he did what he paid to be able to do. Also, looking back on it, $1,800 paid for an item is not chump change.

You never answered my questions.

[EDG]

>>Pha!! You dare attempt to slyly threaten me with loss of sales? Psh.<<

[UNIQUEDOT]

After sitting here and reading through all these pages of whining It's becoming more and more clear to me how that idiot got reelected...I would have never guessed he had so many supporters on this site. Maybe someone should start a thread demanding cry babies that don't get their way and are unable to dictate what others do should be banned from the site.

[Hamish]

Well said UNIQUEDOT.

I am having a hard time understanding why the whiners and the noob bridge dwellers were not dealt with in the usual and customary manner. This pinko socialpsycho babble has zero place, ESPECIALLY in this site.

This one should have been locked and the brooms manned long ago.

[btroj]

Wow, I go turkey hunting and the world blew up!

People buy stuff. People sell stuff. People lose out on good deals. Life goes on.

Yet whiners still whine.

A guy lost put on a good deal. Woo hoo. Get over it. Nobody owes anyone anything.

[MBTcustom]

I couldn't agree more.