Remington M-600 question

[helice]

Forgive my ignorance but I'm wondering what to do with at 600 Remington in 6mm. I have spent little time with this caliber and have no particular affection for it. I have another in 350 Rem Mag and have found great delight in it. I gave my 600 in 308 to my brother's son-in-law. (Should have given him the 6mm.:veryconfu) I am thinking about re-barreling the 6mm and having it in a 358 Winchester. I like the 35s and appreciate the abundance of boolit moulds available for them. I've also considered just boring it to a 358-57mm but question its wisdom. I have reloaded for many years so I can handle the wildcat reloads but the 358 Winchester would be easier to gift to my decendants who might not be reloading. Does the 700 Rem have the same threads as the 600 and can a .308 caliber M-700 barrel be used to make the 358 W? Is there an easier way to do this? Money is an object, I'm not as flush a many here. Still puzzling over the decision. Need some good counsel. What say yee?

[papaw]

Yes it will screw right in. You need to have your smith check the headspace and bolt nose clearance in the counter bore in the barrel. I think I have one of everything, but no 358. I just sold all of my new brass and dies that I squirreled away for all these years.

[pietro]

The barrels are interchangeable, but the M700 bbl would needs be fitted a bit so the sights & roll stamps are topside, and the headspace OK.
(Why gunsmiths have lathes, finish reamers, headspace gauges, etc.)

Some use a M700 recoil lug/spacer ILO the protruding M600 lug/spacer, for a smoother look.


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[Bullshop]

A rebore to 9x57 (358groove) would be a good choice. Jes Ocumpaw will do it for $250.00 total return shipping included.

[Reverend Al]

This might seem like a strange suggestion .... but try loading and test shooting a few round nose 105 grain bullet in your 600 Remington. I used to collect 600 Remington series rifles (600's, 660's and 600 Mohawks) and I had a total of 14 of them for a while. The one I had in 6mm didn't shoot all that well either, until I tried some 105 grain round nose bullets (can't remember if they were "gifted" to me or if just got a good deal on them?). Anyway, that darn rifle shot those round nose bullets like it was made to shoot them and nothing else! It went from big ragged groups to nice little 3/4" clusters. I don't know if my particular rifle was an "odd ball" gun or if that might be normal for 600's chambered in 6mm, but if you can find a few RN bullets to test in your rifle you just might be pleasantly surprised ... From memory I tried the Hornady RN bullet, which has now been discontinued, but if you dig around a bit you might find an old stock box of Speer or Hornady 105 RN bullets in 6mm / .243 calibre to try?
Failing that if you can locate a suitable 700 Remington barrel for the .358 Winchester project that will work no problem with some basic fitting by a gunsmith. Your existing 6mm barrel is likely far too slim to rebore to .358 and you might want to mike the diameter at the muzzle first. Even if it is possible to rebore, I think you'd end up paper thin at the muzzle and would likely want a bit more "meat" in the barrel anyway to expect good results?
By the way, my gunsmith friend adapted my custom 600 so that it has a Winchester 70 style bolt release tab on the left side of the rear tang. I love those little rifles, but l always did hate having to play around alongside of the bolt body with a thin screwdriver blade just to get the darn bolt out of the rifle for cleaning!

[helice]

Thanks all for your information. I appreciate the quick feedback.
Bullshop, I'm familiar with JES. Badgeredd has spoken highly of his work. I am a bit concerned about what Rev. Al spoke of; the diameter of the barrel and how flexible it will bee if bored out to 358. A young man from my church has my calipers (I'm teaching him to reload) so I can't give you a true diameter.
The capabilities of the 358-57 seem pleasing to me.
Al, I have no problems with the 6mm as far as accuracy is concerned. A 1&1/2" group is reason enough for me to buy a lottery ticket. 100 gr. Rem CoreLocts did fine accuracy wise. I just am not thrilled by skinny boolits. Too many of them have failed for me to be comfortable witht them.
I too am pleased with the 600. They really took a nose bleed from the gun writers and other opium smokers back in the 60s. If my health would have held out I would have liked to have a dozen or so. The stock just fit me and the recoil of the magnum was very managable. That "dog-leg" bolt put the knob right over the trigger and the action a bit farther back, made the piece just a bit shorter. Looked like deliberate engineering to me. No one griped about the 1917 - M34 bolt and they had a dog-leg. I share your feelings about the bolt release tho. Proves that Remington had at least one opium smoker working for him.:violin::veryconfu

[Bullshop]

But that short barrel in 6mm is so LOUD!!!! and lacks the zip that makes the caliber what it was ment to be.
The short barrel should have been matched to a case capacity that wouldnt have been adversly affected by it.
Something like a 6x45 or 6x222.

[helice]

Bullshop,
Like I said above, I haven't shot the 600 in 6mm very much. One of the reasons is the noise. The sharpness of the report makes the recoil seem more fierce. It didn't make sense but most of my shooting partners preferred shooting the 600 in 308 to the 600 in 6mm. I too was more partial to the 308. I had a sporterized 6.5 Swede that I really liked. (gave it to my brother) That gun was much quieter - till we mounted the JP muzzle brake.
It seems to me that the 358 Win. would do well with the 18.5" barrel. That would be a moot point since 600 Remington barrels are mighty scarse and the barrel I would need to modify would be from a 700 and would be at least 20" or maybe 22". I see a few of them on the gunselling websights now and again. I'd appreciate your input as to length and twist. I far prefer a barrel with sights, never could figure out why gun manufacturers build guns without them. They are cheap and simple and strong and when the scope gives up the ghost the irons are there. Sorry - got on a soap box.

[Bullshop]

I think there might be an 18" 600 barrel on gunbroker in 308 win right now. I got a couple 700 barrels from a member here in 22/250 and 308 for this same reason to change on a 6mm model 600. I tried to like it as is but its not working.

[papaw]

A picture of one of my Grandson's 600 that I built for him. I chambered it in 6X47Lapua. Biggest problem is a Jewell or Shilen trigger won't work or should I say the triggers that fit the mod 7 and 700s. I did drill and tap the rear tang for the standard 1/4x28 rear action screw. You might notice that I installed an Anschutz bolt stop and release.

http://i54.tinypic.com/33morci.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/119583s.jpg

[pietro]

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FYI - Jes has told me that the minimum bbl OD @ the muzzle, for him to do a rebore to .358", is .600".

(I couldn't get a .30 cal Winchester M70FW rebored to .358", because it's muzzle OD was .500".


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[helice]

Papaw,
So sweet. I'm jealous of that bolt release.
Pietro,
Thanks for the information. I don't have my calipers here but I'm certain that the present barrel is going to be too thin.
Bullshop,
Goin to check the internet for a barrel.

[pietro]

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No need for calipers, if you've an $8 stainless steel machinist's rule with 1/10" graduations. ;) . :D

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51OgrJDgnwL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

[papaw]

I'm thinking the rule of thumb is .125 per side. You have a .500 muzzle minus a 243 bore leaves .257.
A .600 with a 358 bore leaves .242. Both are approx .250.

[Reverend Al]

If you still like the idea of a short carbine length barrel in the .358 bore size for your M600 then go looking for a used "pull off" .243 or .308 M600 "Mohawk" barrel to use for your rebore core barrel. The last version of the M600 was the Mohawk and it had a much heavier contour barrel than the original M600 with the rib on it and you'll find it has lots of "meat" for a rebore ...
If you want to replace the short little carbine barrel on the M600 with a longer barrel then go looking for a "pull off" M700 barrel in 22" or 24" for the "core" barrel. After all is said and done if you decide that you want the shorter barrel length you can always cut and re-crown a 22" or 24" barrel, but it's pretty hard to "stretch" a short barrel to make it longer!
;)
Just a thought ...

[Alan in Vermont]

I got around the bolt release issue on my 600 by making one like the 700s use, sheet metal with the release button just ahead of the trigger in the guard. Took an evening to do but managed to get it done right on only one try. At some point I need to make another one for the 600 my wife has. Both of ours are in 6.5 RM but mine has a 22" Douglas Premium Air-Gauged and a steel floorplate, Linda's has the stock tube with the plastic rib and bottom hardware.

[pietro]

I'm thinking the rule of thumb is .125 per side. You have a .500 muzzle minus a 243 bore leaves .257.
A .600 with a 358 bore leaves .242. Both are approx .250.

Yep, the metal thickness (not barrel thickness), at the muzzle, needs to end up at a minimum of .125".



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[helice]

As always you guys are the greatest.
Lots of good information here.
Now it's time to buckle down and see what I can find.
Thanks all.
Karl