Browning 1886 Throat Fix

[41 mag fan]

Well, heres a story that RunfiveRun suggested awhile back I post for all to see. So here goes......
Back on Feb 1st I acquired a Browning model 1886 in 45-70. Picked up a box of factory loads (2nd box of factory ammo I've bought in 23yrs, except for 22lr or shotshells), and ordered 2 molds from Accurate for it. A 405gr WFN and a 425gr RD clone except it has regular lube grooves not the TL grooves.
Plus I borrowed a RCBS 300gr mold from my father.
I cast several up with the RCBS, loaded them using Varget load data, and since I was on medical leave for my knee, I went to WY to visit my father and took the Browning.
NEVER even thought to check them thru my Browning as they were crimped on the crimp groove. My mistake there.....
But off to Wy I went...with a big grin....
Got out there after a 21 1/2 hr drive straight thru, took me a couple of days to get the drive lag out of me, helped my father build his reloading bench (he just moved back out there from the peoples republic of IL) and we decided to go shoot the Browning on the 4th day there. -4* out....frigin COLD!!!
Well low and behold, I loaded up my reloads, cycled one thru and it wouldn't chamber fully and the lever close shut. Ejected it and tried #2, same problem.
On #3 I forced the lever closed and it jammed, wouldn't open easily. Finally after some force, I got it to release. Inspecting the round, I noticed rifling marks on the boolit.
So I tried the factory rounds....easily chambered with no problems. The j-words were what I call jacketed round flats.

So me being disappointed, brought the Browning home, and started to do some research.
I found out that the Browning are notorious for having a short throat.
So a call to the local gunsmith, and he started looking for a throat reamer. 2 weeks went by, I gave him a call, and he said he couldn't locate one for it, from the places he rents from.
So he said he'd keep looking, and I hung up. Week later I called back, no luck.

So I posted on here in the S&S about renting one or borrowing one from someone, and got a suggestion to a website that rents them.
So after going to www.reamerrentals.com and finding a throat reamer I called the gunsmith.
He hadn't heard of them, but he looked it over and agreed it was the one I was needing.
My barrel slugged out at .4575. The throat reamer was a .458. Perfect for my needs.
So to the gunsmith my Browning went, along with 4 dummy rounds.
At $15 to rent plus shipping for 3 days of use, it's a pretty good deal to rent the throat reamer from them.
1 week later I got my call from the gunsmith, my Browning was done!!

I had loaded up another dummy round, this time using a 425gr WFN.
Chambered it while there, and it cycled perfectly!

But a long story short....My journey to being able to shoot this Browning has started.
Here's a picture of the rifling engaging my cast and not letting it cycle properly

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n569/91msd92/IMG_0685_zpsd62d968f.jpg (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/91msd92/media/IMG_0685_zpsd62d968f.jpg.html)

I hope this story didn't bore any who read it.....it was RFR's idea I do a writeup about it!! [smilie=1::bigsmyl2:

For anyone whose looking to rent a reamer for a throat job for the 45-70, here's a link to the one my gunsmith rented.
If you call and ask, they'll send you the schematics of the reamer thru email
http://www.reamerrentals.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=45.t

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Good write up and not boring.
This is a common malady faced by cast shooters who want to use fat nosed boolits. Factory rifles are many times chambered for factory rounds. Reality is that boolit shooters are the minority today. So we learn to adapt and set things correct for our needs.
Just the info on the ream rental "Pays" for your helpful time sitting and jabbing keys. Thanks !
Mike in Peru

[runfiverun]

excellent nice write up.... thanks.
this is so common nowday's and many don't realize just how easy it is to have their throats fixed.
this applies to many pistols such as the newer made 45, 40 and 9's too.
I see guy's struggling to get them to shoot cast and the simple fix is a couple of minutes with a reamer.
the browning 86's won't chamber some jaxketed reloading bullets from major makers either.


this thread is gonna be linked to my something that may help sticky.

[41 mag fan]

Thank You Mike and RFR for the generous words. RFR this thread is in due course, because of me posting in the S&S forum for a reamer, and you mentioning this would make a good write up. If it hadn't of been for you mentioning it, I would of had it completed and not mentioned a word about it.

And last but not least is a grateful thank you to the member who posted on the reamer thread for directing me to the reamer rental.com website.
If I could find the thread, I would remember who it was and post their name here, but I can't seem to find the thread in the S&S section.

One thing my gunsmith did tell me that I forgot to mention was, the throat took very little reaming to open it up, to accept the WFN casts. The longest part of it all was taking the gun apart to ream the throat out.
RFR you're right though about the throat being an easy fix to alot of problems with casts.
The easy fix cost me $50, thats including renting the reamer, which was a steal for me.
One thing though my gunsmith did ask me, was if i had anyone else needing throat jobs done, it wouldn't be a $50 cost. By the time he rented and paid for shipping the reamer, it was not much in money he made off it.
But he's the type that holds his word, he charged me the $50 only.

[NSB]

I got a NIB Win 1886 a few months back and like you, I found out the hard way that I had bullets that wouldn't fit. I'd ordered 500 jacketed bullets for the gun and found out I can't use them (unless I want to crimp them above the cannalure...I don't). They'll work in my High Wall but not in the lever gun. I was just talking to a friend of mine today about this and he mentioned renting a reamer and fixing the problem. Thanks for the info on where to get the reamer to use. I'm going to do mine pretty soon. Good writeup.

[41 mag fan]

Thank you NSB. Here's a link to the reamer the gunsmith rented for my 45-70
http://www.reamerrentals.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=45.t

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Another simple fix.. shorten some brass.. maybe 10 pieces for that specific boolit type. $50 worth of once fired 45-70 is alot of brass and would be alot of shooting. Especially with smokes powder.. we really do not need all that case unless you are using some real slow propellant.
Mike in Peru

[geargnasher]

The other consideration with throating for cast is correcting the throat angle to a more gentle one, and cleaning up rough factory cuts or even clearing out any sharp steps left by the factory. In some rifles with excessive chamber neck clearance, opening the entire throat entrance up to a larger size to allow shooting a larger-diameter boolit without shaving can improve accuracy greatly.

Gear

[Jon K]

Another fix is to get a mould that fits. There are several out there.

Jon

[41 mag fan]

Another fix is to get a mould that fits. There are several out there.

Jon

A good suggestion,but that don't fix the problem, it skirts around it, when I'm wanting to be able to chamber pretty much any cast thru it. Plus as RFR posted, some factory bullets used to reload wont or possibly wont chamber either.

But it is one thing I did think about Jon, before going the reaming the throat route.

[41 mag fan]

Greetings
Another simple fix.. shorten some brass.. maybe 10 pieces for that specific boolit type. $50 worth of once fired 45-70 is alot of brass and would be alot of shooting. Especially with smokes powder.. we really do not need all that case unless you are using some real slow propellant.
Mike in Peru

That's a good point there too Mike. Only thing is about going that route, once I get a rifle set up that will shoot a specific, j-word or cast, I load up several hundred to a thousand depending on caliber, and set back. That'd be a lot of trimming for even upwards of 500 -1k!!!

[MtGun44]

My 1886 Win Extra Lite will not chamber a Hornady 350 jbullet crimped in the
cannelure, but works perfectly with the Rem 405 jbullet because it is a two
diam boolit like the Swiss GP11.

Bill

[Clay M]

I have two of the Japanese 86's one a Browning saddle ring carbine,and the other is a Winchester full length rifle.The RCBS moulds seem to work.My Winchester shoots the rem 300 grain jacketed hollow points best of anything I have tried.MOA at 100yds,so I am not going to mess with the throat.The Browning seems to like the 405 grain bullets best.

[41 mag fan]

So far, my Browning, likes the 425 gr WFN from Accurate the best. Have tried some with the 300 RCBS mold, but my results weren't as good as I was hoping.Plus I picked up a RD 300gr mold and have some loaded up to try this evening.

Ran out of 405gr's so I'm waiting for them to cure. But so far no issues with any casts of mine chambering.

[Clay M]

Try 50 grains of Rel 7,fed 210 primer and a 300 grain rem jhp.It is about a 1900 fps load.Shoots fantastic in my Winchester.

[41 mag fan]

Thanks for the info on the j-words.
So far for me, 3031 has outperformed RL7, with the 425gr casts. Win primers. Aluminum GC's have also outperfomed in groups vs Hornady GC's, same loads of powder too.

[Clay M]

3031 and 4895 both work great for cast bullets.The 405 grain RCBs mould works good in my Browning carbine.Results will vary from gun to gun.My friend had a Winchester just like mine and he never could get it to shoot as well.

[41 mag fan]

4895 I haven't tried yet. I think I got some out in the shop though.
In fact, 5744 didn't perform as well as the 3031 so far.
In my Marlin, Varget gave me outstanding groups, but it's getting slicked up at this time at the gunsmiths.
I've got 2 different 300gr casts, the RD mold and an RCBS mold. I've got some loaded up using 3031 to try this evening, I hope