Gun show find

[Denver]

Found this at a local gunshow today. For those not familiar with these, it's a Spanish Destroyer carbine. It's chambered for the 9mm Bergmann cartridge according to the marking on the receiver. The seller included a box of 9mm Largo cartridges. I have no idea what the difference is, so if anyone has info on the gun or the ammo I'd appreciate what you can give me. Also I tried to remove the bolt but haven't been able to do it. The safety won't engage when I tried to use it. I'm thinking that someone may have disassembled the bolt in the past and reassembled it incorrectly. The bore is clean and bright with nice lookin rifling. I plan to slug it and see what I'll need for a boolit that will work.

[alrighty]

9mm Largo and Bergmann same ammo , different name.
The bolt can be aggravating to remove , Pull the bolt back an inch or so and you will see a protrusion on the bolt body that will line up with a notch in the bolt track. When aligned, rotate the bolt until the protrusion is free from the rail then pull the bolt out.
The extractors are the weak link and spare bolt parts are hard to find.Extractors can be made from other rifles though if needed.

[NoZombies]

Sweet! I've wanted a destoryer carbine for years, and have never found one that was affordable, at a time I also had money.

The 9mm bergman is the same cartridge with a different name (also called 9mm bayard long etc.)

[texassako]

Here you go: http://9mmlargo.com/ . Hopefully yours is not like my 2 and will like Starline's 9mm Largo brass, which is .020" shorter than the surplus ammo out of Spain and does not headspace very well.

[Multigunner]

Mighty nice little rifles. I'd like to see these manufactured now days in more modern and common pistol chamberings like .357, .45 etc.

I've heard that some but not all of these will work okay with .38 ACP but may not be safe with .38 Super Auto.

[alrighty]

Here you go: http://9mmlargo.com/ . Hopefully yours is not like my 2 and will like Starline's 9mm Largo brass, which is .020" shorter than the surplus ammo out of Spain.
Thanks for that link , that also explains the bolt removal better than my description!

[Multigunner]

Heres the warning about .38 Super ammo (and the 9X23 Winchester).


The use of cartridges that produce too much chamber pressure is also discouraged. Yes, the .38 Super and 9x23mm Winchester will chamber in most 9mm Largo firearms, and if they will chamber they will fire. The metallurgy and design of the Destroyer Carbine was not developed to handle the pressure of these rounds. Use of these type cartridges in the Destroyer Carbine risks damage to the carbine and possibly yourself through a ruptured chamber and/or bolt lug failure.


I'd always figured the .38 Super would be okay for these, but apparently its not a good idea since the metalurgy of some examples may not always be up to it.

It would not be difficult to manufacture these actions using a steel suited to the higher pressure magnum pistol cartridges. I figure these would sell very well, I know I'd like to have one in .357 Mag/.38 Special or 9X19.
7.62X25 would also be nice.
As would .30 carbine or any of the small case .22 centerfire cartridges.

[Artful]

You may find that your carbine will pick and and hold 9x19 cartridges by the extractor for firing - mine does

[Multigunner]

From the link I found that while the later production Destroyers have two locking lugs, the earlier production only use the bolt handle root as a lug. I'd thought these all had the two lug bolt. Good thing such detailed information is available. The author of that site is to be commended for his diligent research.

[texassako]

From the link I found that while the later production Destroyers have two locking lugs, the earlier production only use the bolt handle root as a lug. I'd thought these all had the two lug bolt. Good thing such detailed information is available. The author of that site is to be commended for his diligent research.

I have one of those Onena rifles that use the bolt handle root as the lug, and is why I found that site. It is neat looking and shoots well, but it gets very light loads. The typical ones you see that look like little Mausers had a different early magazine setup as well, mine is the early double stack and I have never found a spare.

[Gtek]

Recievers are just a little harder than butter just out of fridge. I have one 80% or so into .45 acp conversion. Bolt handle, mag well shim, finish chamber to complete. Front and rear bridges were not the same and needed work, now has Weaver steel bases installed. Ruger should have made .45 acp along with the 357/44 bolt guns, I think they would have sold a few. Gtek

[Denver]

Thanks all for the info. The link to 9mm Largo is very helpful. I was able to remove the bolt from the directions there. Also I was able to date this gun as a 1965 vintage and found the reason that the safety doesn't work. I'll see if I can locate some Win 9x23 brass and dies for loading same. Seems like dies for 38 Super/38 ACP would be best choice. I wonder if 38 Super brass would need the rim diameter reduced to make it usable?

[texassako]

Thanks all for the info. The link to 9mm Largo is very helpful. I was able to remove the bolt from the directions there. Also I was able to date this gun as a 1965 vintage and found the reason that the safety doesn't work. I'll see if I can locate some Win 9x23 brass and dies for loading same. Seems like dies for 38 Super/38 ACP would be best choice. I wonder if 38 Super brass would need the rim diameter reduced to make it usable?

I use Lee 38 Super/ACP dies. RCBS makes proper dies, but they are a bit pricey. 38 Super brass did not work for me without turning the rim, but some people have relieved the bolt face to fit the rim. It also may be too short, but at least some lots of Starline Largo brass are short as well. 38 Super brass - .890", my Largo brass - .890", Spanish surplus cases - .910". I would cast the chamber first before buying brass because some have had to set the barrel back or, like me, whittle down 9mm Win Mag to .920" for the long chamber. No need to waste money on brass you may not be able to use.

[M99SavNut]

Starline makes a rimless 38 Super (called a 38 Super Comp), so that may help at some point. Don't know much else about the firearm in question than what I've read here, but did recall reading about the Starline rimless 38 Super while looking thru their site for other stuff. Just looked further - they make a 9x23 Comp, as well. The 38 Super Comp is at this time Backordered, but the 9x23 is available.

[khmer6]

The 38 super comp brass is fantastic with super hot loads! Use it in my unsupported 1911

[MOcaster]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321127567678?redirect=mobile

Found some dies form you. Maybe.

[kywoodwrkr]

Here you go: http://9mmlargo.com/ . Hopefully yours is not like my 2 and will like Starline's 9mm Largo brass, which is .020" shorter than the surplus ammo out of Spain and does not headspace very well.
Interesting.
I was ready to jerk the barrel out of mine and either rebarrel or ???.
Mine split Starline brass something fierce.
Largo surplus worked like a charm.
Appreciate the information as I was too lazy to research.
Starline work in the pistols okay?
Thanks.

[schutzen]

Sarco currently has Destroyer magazines in stock. You may want to pick up a couple of spares. I suspect they will get nothing but rarer. Nice find.

[JHeath]

Starline makes a rimless 38 Super (called a 38 Super Comp), so that may help at some point. Don't know much else about the firearm in question than what I've read here, but did recall reading about the Starline rimless 38 Super while looking thru their site for other stuff. Just looked further - they make a 9x23 Comp, as well. The 38 Super Comp is at this time Backordered, but the 9x23 is available.

Would cut-down 5.56/.223 brass work? It's been used for 9x23 Win although it's a teensy bit smaller at the case head.

[bob208]

.223 brass will work you mite have to ream the necks some. I do when I made .30 mauser out of .223.

[Stephen Cohen]

That is a nice example I have never seen one in such nice shape. A lot of those were used in our prison service I believe, friends that have them use 9x23 shells to reload as it is near imposable to get Largo or Bergmann shells. I would love one as nice as yours.

[TCLouis]

Something that I have always wanted and yet had no real use for.

Just one of the "I want one of those guns."

[enfield]

O.K what loads are you guys using in you 9mm largo detroyers. ???