Handicap parking

[abunaitoo]

I'm not sure how it is outside of the Nationalist Socialist state of hawaii, but here if the Handicapped person is not in the car, you cannot be in the stall.
I took my Mother to Costco. She has the handicap permit.
We were early, so she got out of the car to sit in the shade.
I stayed in to read the paper.
cop told me I cannot park there because the handicap permit didn't belong to me.
I told him it was my Mothers and pointed to where she was sitting.
He said it wasn't my permit, so I couldn't park there.
I told him I was the driver because my Mother no longer driver.
He said "Then she shouldn't have a permit"
He then said move it or get a ticket.
I moved.
Called the ADA office and they told me the cop was wrong.

Those of you hoping to visit hawaii, watch out for the cops.
I wonder if this is how the Jews in Germany were treated in 1939????

[PB234]

No, in 1939 Nazi Germany (and before) they would have either beaten the Jew to a pulp or sent him/her off to a camp to be either worked to death or killed quick or some other heinous torture. Not exactly the same as being threatened with a $50 or $100 ticket and being given a chance to avoid it. Many Catholics and Quakers and others got about the same. We are all lucky to live here now. This is the best place the world has ever seen. The police officer goofed. You ever make a mistake?

[Duckiller]

If it is the policeman's job to enforce the law he should have a clue to what the law says. Perhaps the good officer was on a power trip. Was this brought to the attentionof his supervisors? Or is he out there still improperly enforcing the law?

[Phoenix]

If you don't know the law beyond a doubt you have no business enforcing it. If the law isn't clear then you have no business enforcing it. If you are not 100% sure then you don't act pompous. None of these things are hard to understand and they all make perfect sense. If I don't know about a subject I don't go around telling people they are wrong about that subject. Hmm I think this scenario fits society in general not just authoritarians.

[Gar]

On several occasions I have run into LEO's who's opinion of the laws differed from what was written. As Duckiller stated, bring to the attention of his supervisors. A polite letter to Chief LEO describing the incident hopefully will bring a better understanding of the law/regulation to the officer involved.

[texassako]

In my state I believe you just would not be able to get 2 tags if she did not drive. One only for a person to drive her around, but all states are different. We just renewed ours and I had to have a DL for each one. Handicap spots and permits are a sore issue with us since my wife is paralyzed. We get dirty looks from old people who don't think a young person could be handicap, fight for spots with people using someone else's tag(or no tag), and the one spot made for the ramp van is usually taken by a subcompact.

[koehn,jim]

Another way to look at it is you could have dropped her off, and parked in another spot, so any other person who is handicapped could use the spot. I know that is more of a hassell but it is the right thing to do . Of course it depends on how many handicapped spaces there are.

[nekshot]

I more than qualify for handicap plates, stickers and any thing else they would give me but I just can not allow myself to identify with the handicap crowd. Some folk call me proud but going on disability was humiliating enough (even though I paid in for 40 years) I just cannot stand the thought of those plates on my vehicle. This is my atitude towards me and not towards other folk.

[TXGunNut]

Cop was wrong, of course. Many handicapped folks are not able to drive, he just hasn't figured that out or forgot it. Traffic law is a mind-numbingly boring section of the academy. I know folks that have handicapped placards for family members and use them even when the disabled person isn't along. It's legal but it ticks some folks off.

[Beagle333]

I disagree with the cop since she was present, even if not in the car. As long as the owner of the handicap tag was transported in the vehicle to the spot the vehicle is parked..... I got no problem with it. Too many young healthy drivers here have handicap tags because they carry Grandma to the Dr once a month and they use/abuse the tag the rest of the time. (as TXGunNut said) Also, if you carry a handicapped person to the store, let them out at the door, and wait to go pick them back up at the door, you should have to park in a regular space until they come back out. The handicap spaces are there so that a handicapped person doesn't have to travel as far as everyone else....period.

[walltube]

".... and the one spot made for the ramp van is usually taken by a subcompact." GRRRRR

I despise the jerkzoids who park their sub-compacts, or any other vehicle not so ramp equipped in a zone marked expressly for "VAN PARKING". Too many times have I witnessed some SOB race to a 'Van Only' zone just save a few walking steps and deny a vehicle such as texassako's rightful parking area. My heart felt sympathies to all you folks who must endure those selfish mis-creants.

Just so you readers will know, I have a MS handicap parking permit and am not (thank G-D) in need of a device as does texassako's dearly beloved. My vehicle of choice is a long wheel base van with which I have blocked traffic to allow a truly disabled driver secure their parking area. No heroics involved. It is my pleasure and entertainment to pi$$ off the affore mentioned mis-creants. Fun is where you find it.



Truly Yours,
A cheerful, yet cantankerous, van driving, 'old person'. :mrgreen:

[country gent]

The ones that really upset me are the do gooders. I have a permit and drive a 2 seat Thunderbird in the summer. I ge around with the use of a cane barley. I came out from the local Krogers one saturday morning to find a "lady" sitting on the hood of my car. She informed in a very stern tone I didnt have a permit and she had called the law and wasnt leaving till they arrived. I looked at her and said the permit is on the drivers side dash. ( I stopped putting it on the rearview mirror because over time it had cut the wires running along it) She looked and said shed be leaving then. I told her no she was staying since there were other issues that needed to be delt with by the law. About 15 mins later a deputy showed up informed her the permit only had to be visible and was she needing a space she said no. I then ask since she was in shorts sitting on the hood of my car who was going to pay to clean the hood of any things left behind. She was a royal pain in the A** to deal with and truly believed she had the right to risk damaging my property under the circumstances.

[338RemUltraMag]

If I knew I was in the right, I would have taken the ticket and went to court, some times it is fun to see a toung lashing given to a cop by a judge.

[dakotashooter2]

Hopefully the ADA passed the correct information on to the officer. I once got a ticket from an officer on a different matter. I knew I was right but diddn't argue with him and saved that for court. I got a phone call 2 days later by whoever processed the ticket and was told it was void and the officer was corrected.....

In my state the permit goes to the handicap person NOT the vehicle. If they are not a driver technically the permit is supposed to be removed from the vehicle if they are not using it.

I often get questioned (as a code enforcement official) because handicap spots are not the closest spot to the building. Most people, even the handicaped ones, don't know that a handicap spot only has to be within 200 feet of an entrance or access point. Often the closest spots are not designated for handicap parking due to traffic hazards present or the hazard they may present.

[MUSTANG]

Having a son who is a Police Officer, I often get into some heated discussions concerning the over stepping of Police Authority that occurs periodically, as well as the encroaching loss of personal freedom represented by expanding police power/authority.

My observation is that the more vocal a citizen becomes, or unwavering in their demand that their rights be respected in an interaction with Law Enforcement, the more entrenched and unwavering the Officer becomes in his/her stated position. In other words, the Officer takes a "Face Saving/Authoritarian Position because they are the "Authority" on scene and can not/will not waiver. Makes no difference if it is a Handicap Parking issue, or more heightened issues. The person involved should consider the following three options, each having it's own environmental conditions.

a. Bite your tongue and comply with the Police Officials direction, rarely does discussion/negotiation work with the initial Police Officer contact once there is even minor disagreement.

b. Ask the Police Officer to call their Sergeant Supervisor and have a discussion with the next level up where supervisory action starts.

c. Lastly, the option of standing your ground on the position/issue; but be prepared for the consequences which range from a very long engagement at the bottom end of the spectrum, to arrest/incarceration at the top end. Years ago I learned in the military that if you have a problem with an MP or Gate Guard, call for the "Corporal of the Guard" (Next supervisory level up.

It is important to choose your ground, a parking spot and a Handicap Sticker would not be worth the interaction for me . I would have followed up with the Law Enforcement Chain of Command so they know of the incident, it could be a series of events going on indicating problems with a specific Law Enforcement Officer that the public is unaware of.

An example of where I will "Stand My Ground" in the future? A few years ago there was a Large Range Fire in our area. As the fire spread Law Enforcement approached the neighbors to ensure they were aware of the fire and advising that residents should consider leaving. Limited fire support was available for the first 5-6 hours and it was the neighborhood that created and worked fire breaks, evacuation of livestock and personal property, and some fighting of the fire where it threatened property. When expanded Fire Fighting support arrived later in the day, the Police shifted from advising people leave, to a demand they leave. I was initially able to stay on my property (had a 1.5 inch fire hose from the well, plenty of water & plenty of pressure) and keep flying embers put out that were starting small fire spots periodically (30 to 45 mph winds that day). After several "Directions" from a Police Officer to leave over a 1 hour period, to which I said thank you, but I'll be staying (non confrontational); the direction escalated. The Police Officer then demanded I leave immediately or he would arrest me (keep in mind I am on my own property fighting hot spots as they occur).

When threatened with arrest, I politely escalated by telling the Police Officer to have his Sergeant come to the scene. He got on the radio and the Sgt said he was tied up elsewhere, if I did not leave to arrest me. I asked for contact with the Lieutenant, and was told that he was busy too, leave or be arrested.

On that day, I chose to disengage and depart my property. I subsequently contacted the Police Department and after a polite discussion where they initially backed the Officer and his exercise of Authority, they changed their position and agreed they did not have the authority to drive me from my private property without a warrant/court order.

In any similar case in the future; I will go all the way to being Arrested before I will allow the Police/Government to evict me from my property without my consent. (Think in the context of Boston/Water Town and Police Actions there this week). By the way, the cost of my leaving as the Police Officer demaded:

(1) Barn burned down
(1) Tractor and implements burned
(150) Bales of Hay destroyed
Lots of tolls and equipment
Financial loss: ~$150,000.00

Had I been able to stay and put out Hot spots the fire would never have spread across my property. Same situation occurred with several other neighbors during that event. Several lost much more than I did.

Moral:

When dealing with Law Enforcement evaluate the situation, remain calm and polite, try to resolve the situation by requesting to speak with a supervisor and escalating up the chain of command, determine if being arrested is worth it, and conduct yourself in a manner that will allow you to be successful in a trial or settlement with the Police Department if required.


Mustang

[cajun shooter]

I have a Louisiana hadicapped parking permit and I'm also a former cop. My lower back has L2,3,4,and 5 vertabra that are bone to bone with no protective tissue between them. My pain is so intense that I was home bound for over a year before the doctors implanted this infusion pump in my body. It has feed both Dilaudid and Morphine to my spinal fluid for the past 5 years. I'm unable to walk a long distance before sitting down.
If I'm out and see an area with HP then I will use it but only if they have other spaces open. If they have just one HP space then I leave it and park elsewhere. It kills me to see some young adult using a family members vehicle with a tag and taking the spot. They then jump from the vehicle and almost run into the store.
I also understand why the cop approached the OP in the parking spot. He like me has seen several people using these spots and not being Handicapped. If the OP would of went with his wife then nothing would of been said. If I take my wife to the store and decide to stay in the vehicle then I move to a regular spot. That way if a wheel chair bound person needs a spot they have one.
The cop was wrong as far as the legal issue but he was correct with the moral one. Later David

[smokemjoe]

Half the people I see that park in the hadiecap place can jump out of the car and walk right to the store. The doc. ask me if I wanted one and I said no, the walk will make me better. Joe

[10 ga]

You shoulda taken the "ticket" then sued the cops A55 off for a false arrest. As a former LEO that took a torpedo from a fellow officer I have NO sympathy for dishonest or ignorant cops. I carry my lawyer business card in my billfold and whenever approached by LEO, before answering ANY questions, I ask "am I under arrest or investigation", Doesn't mater what they say after that the only thing they get from me is that card and a request that I be able to contact my lawyer. It is stunning how many are taken aback by that request, Then if thy continue to question I simply repeat my request, they are usually flabbergasted. You have the right to not answer ANY questions. If they request ID showing that is necessary, I never give them my, "operators permit" but my "frequent flyer ID or a tribal document", but you do not have to talk at all. Mostly if you talk to "explain" anything you are voluntarily giving them information they can use against you. Also using your cell as a recording device is good, especially if in plain sight like in your hand etc... Too many of the good LEO have to put up with the AH guys they are forced to work with.

10

[mold maker]

The handicap laws are a pain in the butt for those of us who need to use them. I am perminately handicapped, and I provide transportation for 4 other persons who are either perminately or temperately disabled. It seem the provided spaces are always occupied. I've witnessed carloads of teenagers joking and picking, both from and to, the cars in handicap spaces, while I circle the lot.
My only vehicle is a Dodge crew cab, and regular parking spaces are sized for compacts. I have a perminate handicap tag, and have been berated for parking in the provided space. It usually by someone who got beat to the spot.
I guess rudeness is a privilege.

[walltube]

Quoting cajun shooter:

"It kills me to see some young adult using a family members vehicle with a tag and taking the spot. They then jump from the vehicle and almost run into the store."

That's what I'm talking about. And I must say you are quite the man, sir.

Y.T.,
Wt.

[montana_charlie]

I took my Mother to Costco. She has the handicap permit.
We were early, so she got out of the car to sit in the shade.
I stayed in to read the paper.
cop told me I cannot park there because the handicap permit didn't belong to me.
So, get out of the car and go sit with your Mom.

It's still her car ... still has her permit ... and still parked in a handicapped slot.
What can the cop do?

CM

[deep creek]

my grand daughter is wheelchair bound. my daughter uses a van set up for loading,unloading her it seems alot offolks think its a free parking spot. one punk never parks anywhere else and he is not disabled. spoke to him things went like i thought.I figured if he wasnt dis abled it must be his car seems the last two times he parked there his car became disabled:D

[shdwlkr]

I have a handicap tag in my truck, The state was nice enough to give it to me for life.
I get funny looks all the time I can still walk sort of, have arthritis in all my joints, a broken back, a broken ankle and two shattered patellas. Want my body especially when it is cold and damp makes moving real fun, in the summer when it is like 90 or higher and humidity is in the low single numbers I feel good and get around pretty good one of reasons I live in the desert.
I park in handicap on bad days and in any spot when it is a good day for me. I need the exercise besides I like to walk when it doesn't hurt so bad just moving feels like someone is torturing me.

[Bad Water Bill]

What I hated to do was drive my 90+ mom to a store in the summer. Drop her off at the door then she was not in the car so her HANDICAP did not apply any more, and I had to leave her supported on a shopping cart in 90+degree in the sun alone and having to wait till I found a spot in the back of the lot and walked back to help her in her shopping.

NO, going with HER list was out of the question as long as she was even breathing.

Once we were finished shopping it was the same thing all over again.

[historicfirearms]

My mom was legally blind and she had a handicap permit.

[jaystuw]

I'm a little surprised. the honolulu cops always seem pretty cool to me . I routinely ride my bicycle on the sidewalk like you are not suppost to do and do't get bothered. And on a lighter note, honolulu is way out in the middle of no where and yet you can still go to the costco and get a hotdog and coke (with re-fills) for a dollar fifty! Jay

[Kevin Rohrer]

You shoulda taken the "ticket" then sued the cops A55 off for a false arrest.

Sorry, but getting a ticket is not an (custodial) arrest.

[Kevin Rohrer]

The patrolman may or may not have erred. It depends on how the local jurisdiction has worded their 'no handicapped' parking statute.

[Down South]

I know folks that have handicapped placards for family members and use them even when the disabled person isn't along. It's legal but it ticks some folks off.

Yeah, I watch a lot of folks get in and out of cars parked in handicapped parking spots then walk to and from the store better than I can. It's a shame but it's the same as any type of entitlement plan, abuse.

[jcwit]

Yeah, I watch a lot of folks get in and out of cars parked in handicapped parking spots then walk to and from the store better than I can. It's a shame but it's the same as any type of entitlement plan, abuse.

And their handicap may not be obvious. I used not to limp/walk as I now do, but my breathing is so bad I can no longer walk 100 yds without stopping and getting my breath. Plus my heart is not in the greatest of shape.

[Bad Water Bill]

How about a CHARTER BOAT owner(captain) +working master carpenter flying and using a HANDICAP license. :evil:

[Down South]

And their handicap may not be obvious. I used not to limp/walk as I now do, but my breathing is so bad I can no longer walk 100 yds without stopping and getting my breath. Plus my heart is not in the greatest of shape.
A lot of the ones I talk about, it's ovious they are not handicapped. I have no problem with someone who needs the handicapped space if they need it. But some kid that borrowed mom's car to run to the store is a different story.

[blackthorn]

Being a MORON is a handicap too!!!!

[jcwit]

How about a CHARTER BOAT owner(captain) +working master carpenter flying and using a HANDICAP license. :evil:

As I tell those that question my use of a Handicap Placard.

I did not realize you were a Medical Professional, and just when did you examine me?

[Bad Water Bill]

Tell me what kind of handicap someone has if he can work 10-12 hours straight in 110+ in the summer as a carpenter moving crates full of equipment by hand. Climbs to the TOP of a 16' STEP LADDER and balance there working on frames OVER his head.

To get to his work location he must transport his personal tools 1/2 to over 1 mile from the handicap parking. They weigh from 30-70#.

[jcwit]

Tell me what kind of handicap someone has if he can work 10-12 hours straight in 110+ in the summer as a carpenter moving crates full of equipment by hand. Climbs to the TOP of a 16' STEP LADDER and balance there working on frames OVER his head.

To get to his work location he must transport his personal tools 1/2 to over 1 mile from the handicap parking. They weigh from 30-70#.

Being as I have no medical training nor am I a Dr. or medical professional, I can tell you little. I shall let the decision of that up to the people who are schooled in that.

Are saying you are the one who is capable of deciding who gets a Placard and who doesn't?

This is actually what is the matter with people deciding who is and who is not mentally incompetent and should not be allowed to acquire/own firearms.

Different circumstances, same potential outcome.

[shdwlkr]

Bill

where the real issue comes into play is should he be doing it. In the heat of the summer sometimes I could do that myself, but if the humidity is up and it is cool and damp then I have issues just getting around forget picking up anything really heavy.

So should I not have a handicap tag? well lets see I have a broken back, broken ankle, two shattered patellas and arthritis in all my joints. Want my body, it is slightly used, damaged some from military service and oh yes it is a joy to walk long distances on rough ground. I was told that 20 years ago I would be in a wheel chair, not there yet but the reality is some day I just might be.

When we see someone with a handicap tag there is only two people who really know the truth about it the doctor that wrote the reason for the tag and the person who just got out of the vehicle with the handicap tag. Yes some do abuse the privilege but most don't and many like myself who is entitled by Veterans Administration, my ortho surgeon and my state DMV park where we can find a place and make our way into the store we need to go into.

I look at those who abuse the handicap tag this way some day it will catch up to them and also if they are faking it sooner or later it will be found out and dealt with by those who issue the handicap tags and what if at some point later in life they do need the tag will it be given to them easily or will they have to do some extra leg work so to speak to get it?






Tell me what kind of handicap someone has if he can work 10-12 hours straight in 110+ in the summer as a carpenter moving crates full of equipment by hand. Climbs to the TOP of a 16' STEP LADDER and balance there working on frames OVER his head.

To get to his work location he must transport his personal tools 1/2 to over 1 mile from the handicap parking. They weigh from 30-70#.

[Arkansas Paul]

I wonder if this is how the Jews in Germany were treated in 1939????

While the police officer was obviously not correct, I think this comparison is rather absurd and ridiculous. The next time my boss gives me a project to do, I think I'll tell him I wonder if this is how slaves were treated in the 1850s. :rolleyes:

[scarry scarney]

My two cents. I have both a placard and a set of Disabled Veteran's Plates. I carry the placard when we are in the Wife's car. I have good days, and I have bad days. On good days, I get in and out of the car and do everything I want. On the good days, I try not to park in the "reserved" parking places, leaving it for others. I admit, sometimes I get lazy and use the "reserved" parking spots, especially when I cant find an open slot.

[Bad Water Bill]

Well the work place of the carpenter was McCormack Place CHICAGO. The carpenter lived in Mayor R J Daley AND Mayor R M Daley's ward. With those credentials and a phone call anything in CHICAGO was available. :evil:

Every HANDICAP space was full every day when we were setting up a show. Carpenters,teamsters and electricians were well represented.

Yes there are many folks with problems I can not see but believe me, If you could work in those buildings at that time with the 99% humidity and temperature such as it was you were either healthy or mother nature WEEDED you out.

At one National Hardware Show 9 carpenters were taken to the hospital then directly to the county Morgue. I have no idea how many were taken to the hospital,were released and said never again to another show. Most of the HANDICAP folks are still working there.

Can I tell of more abuses of the system? I live in CROOK COUNTY ILLINOIS so what do you think.:evil:

[shdwlkr]

Bill
this says it all, "carpenter lived in Mayor R J Daley AND Mayor R M Daley's ward" Other than Al Capone I don't know of better representatives of Chicago than those two individuals

[Bad Water Bill]

Bill
this says it all, "carpenter lived in Mayor R J Daley AND Mayor R M Daley's ward" Other than Al Capone I don't know of better representatives of Chicago than those two individuals

Lets not forget that dad and son had one of the most expensive gun collections in the midwest stashed at their RETREAT across the state line in Michigan. Yet most folks living in Chicago can not afford to OWN even a cheap handgun.

IIRC Chicago has been ruled from the BRIDGEPORT neighborhood for over 1/2 century. Probably longer but my memory is foggy before I graduated from highschool in 1954[smilie=s:

[NewbieDave007]

While the police officer was obviously not correct, I think this comparison is rather absurd and ridiculous. The next time my boss gives me a project to do, I think I'll tell him I wonder if this is how slaves were treated in the 1850s. :rolleyes:

I could not agree more.

Having been in law enforcement in a past life and reading through all of these posts bring me back to those times. Without knowing what Hawaii law states, I have no clue if the police officer was in the wrong, but with the comparison in the OP leads me to believe that you had no part in defusing the situation.

How about everyone calm down and take a breath. Are there plenty of people that abuse the system? Yes. Are there good and bad police? Yes (just like ANY profession). Do they put their life on the line every time they go to work? Yes.

Now for the OP, do you feel that the police officer was intentionally “messing” with you, or do you feel that he was intending to do his job (misguided or not) (you do not need to respond)? Police are people too and can actually make a mistake no matter how well intentioned they are. They put their pants on the same as the rest of us and deal with the slime that most have never had the displeasure of having to deal with, yet they are the first ones we call when we are in trouble. Something is a little off here. If you feel that he was targeting you and was acting in a malicious manner, then by all means, follow up with his supervisors and file a complaint. If after all this you sit back and say that it could have just been a mistake that you had a part in escalating, then I would say to use it as a life lesson and move on.

Something else to think about is how would YOU deal with people that don’t like you for the uniform you wear, or start an interaction on a negative note? We (here in the US) generally support our troops (as I do), but we get defensive with the people who have sworn to protect us from each other and even ourselves.

These are just my opinions and experiences, so I am not looking to get into a back-and-forth discussion, so save your typing time. This is just some food for thought. Good luck and please treat others as you would like to be treated.