375 H&H and cast

[sharpsguy]

I'm looking to get my 375 H&H up and running with cast bullets. I have a Lyman 375248 mold which throws a 255 grain bullet. I am currently shooting 32 grains of IMR 3031 which feels good, and gives recoil about like a 30-06. I don't want to shoot a gas check and am not looking for 2000+ fps. I am trying to avoid leading and mostly want a decent load around 1500-1600 fps. I would appreciate any help and insight into this.

I have loaded and shot tens of thousands of cast bullets and black powder in my Sharps, but this is the first bottleneck I have ever loaded for. The rifle shoots 3/4 of an inch at 100 with the 270 grain TSX and H4895, so I know it will shoot. I would rather ask for help than re invent the wheel.

Thanks, sharpsguy.

[leftiye]

I'm using a lyman 375674 330 grain which I have hollow pointed the mold (comes out about 315 grains). I cut down the base band and gas check it. I've been using about 35 grains of 4759 and dacron, a mild load which gives good accuracy. I plan to go to a better lube this summer, and probly 3031 powder. I don't think you need full house loads for this to be enough gun for almost anything.

[725]

Can't remember which boolit it was but as memory serves (not reliable, of course) I loaded my friends .375 H&H with a 250 gr projectile with 13.5 gr of Unique - no filler. Very accurate and enough for whitetail. Hope many others chime in here, as I wouldn't mind delving into this one a little deeper.

[Nobade]

That plain base boolit may require granular filler to get it going to the speed you want without leading the barrel, but it is easily doable.

Paper patching works very nicely with the 375 as well, and allows you to load it all the way to the pressure limits of the cartridge if you feel the need, and of course anything below that. This, coupled with the ability to use dead soft lead for boolits, is what makes this option the most attractive to me.

-Nobade

[sharpsguy]

I have paper patched a lot of 40, 45, and 50 caliber rounds with black powder, so that is not something I am afraid of. However, I don't have a clue as to where I need to be as far as bullet diameter before and after patching for the .375, or if I need wads and/or a grease cookie with smokeless. Advice?

[x101airborne]

I am excited for you working on this. I love the 375 H&H although I don't own one yet. I will one day. If you need some patching paper, let me know.

[TXGunNut]

I'm going to join my friend from Victoria in cheering you on. 375 is a caliber that interests me but haven't gotten as far as deciding on a cartridge yet but the H&H is a strong possibility. Haven't gotten interested in paper patching yet but if you don't want to GC Nobade has the solution for you.

[Adam10mm]

Had an Encore pistol in 375 H&H mag for shooting cast bullets. I had a 378674 and a 375449 mould. Nice accurate bullets. Think I used IMR4198 using the Lyman data. The 378674 is a PB and I don't recall any leading issues using it. I cast my bullets around 12 BHN, sized them to .376, and didn't have any issues. Put a couple hundred rounds through it and then sold it.

I did pick up a barrel and stock from a CZ 550 magnum in 375 H&H. Guy wanted the action for a custom rifle. I chopped it down to about 20 inches and my intent is to get an action from Brownells and make it a cast bullet carbine.

[NVScouter]

Ken Waters load 270g over 34g R7 @1750fps. 3 shots at 100y.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f10/NVScouter/6C954FAB-70D1-40C8-8B38-EC4FBC3D9EB2-2434-0000038A7E019E96.jpg

I've been working on my new 375 H&H for the last couple weeks. The shot to the right is not from this group but site in on a target to the right. I also tried 17.5g of Unique but the wind was blowing the bench around so grouping was like 4" at 100y, I think they were around 1450fps since I didnt bring my chrono.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

78[/url]!

[Nobade]

I have paper patched a lot of 40, 45, and 50 caliber rounds with black powder, so that is not something I am afraid of. However, I don't have a clue as to where I need to be as far as bullet diameter before and after patching for the .375, or if I need wads and/or a grease cookie with smokeless. Advice?

Probably the best thing to do is go over to the smokeless paper patching room on this forum and read the stickies. In a nutshell you'll size to .001 over bore or .367", patch with 15# paper to fit the throat or a fired case, so likely about .377" and load so the patch engages the rifling when the bolt is closed. A case full of slow ball powder (much slower than you would expect) is usually the best for accuracy. Hint - I use WW760 and 780 in my 375 with good effect.

So do some studying and see if that tickles your fancy.

-Nobade

[Chill Wills]

68020
Sharpsguy,
Here are pictures of a 2 cavity LBT mould I had made years ago. I made an impact impression of the chamber and let V. Smith cut the diameters based on the chamber-throat. I have a GC cavity and a PP cavity in this one mould block. I did not bargain for the small boat tail on the base of the PP bullet but it turns out to be great. The boat tail is more than a bevel and less than a real BT. You may want to play with the neck expander to get the neck pull light enough not to tear the paper but just right to hold firm the pp bullet. Once set up correctly I could load the rifle magazine full and cycle the action as you would any bullet.

Both GC and PP bullets weigh close to 285gr and for hunting the Spitzer points work fine when matched to alloy and velocity. The PP cast in 20-1 lead tin can be driven hard and works well in the few cow elk I haven taken with it. With the hard body 2-part or 2-alloy bullet the soft nose would act like the old Nosler partition bullet. That is the nose would expand and then sheer off and the body would go all the way through.

I shot many loads with it in both GG designs and the one PP design plus the cast the RCBS flat point and an NEI 275gr flat point as well. Loaded slow or fast all were fun and cut the cost of shooting that rifle way down.

For hunting elk I used the PP bullet with IMR-3031. I worked up to a load of 60 grains which gave 2450 fps in my Interarms Mark X rifle. At this power lever the rifle was not hard recoiling. Not for a somewhat flat shooting CB elk rifle.
6802168022
-Michael Rix

[leftiye]

I have paper patched a lot of 40, 45, and 50 caliber rounds with black powder, so that is not something I am afraid of. However, I don't have a clue as to where I need to be as far as bullet diameter before and after patching for the .375, or if I need wads and/or a grease cookie with smokeless. Advice?

Size the boolit to bore (not groove) diamter plus .001" prior to wrapping. Two wraps of .002" paper will add about .008" to the diameter, size to groove diameter plus .001 or .001", and lube with JPW. Just smear it on by hand. Cow or bran filling will protect your base. Might not be necessary. So will a gas check.

[Nobade]

68020
Sharpsguy,
Here are pictures of a 2 cavity LBT mould I had made years ago. I made an impact impression of the chamber and let V. Smith cut the diameters based on the chamber-throat. I have a GC cavity and a PP cavity in this one mould block. I did not bargain for the small boat tail on the base of the PP bullet but it turns out to be great. The boat tail is more than a bevel and less than a real BT. You may want to play with the neck expander to get the neck pull light enough not to tear the paper but just right to hold firm the pp bullet. Once set up correctly I could load the rifle magazine full and cycle the action as you would any bullet.

Both GC and PP bullets weigh close to 285gr and for hunting the Spitzer points work fine when matched to alloy and velocity. The PP cast in 20-1 lead tin can be driven hard and works well in the few cow elk I haven taken with it. With the hard body 2-part or 2-alloy bullet the soft nose would act like the old Nosler partition bullet. That is the nose would expand and then sheer off and the body would go all the way through.

I shot many loads with it in both GG designs and the one PP design plus the cast the RCBS flat point and an NEI 275gr flat point as well. Loaded slow or fast all were fun and cut the cost of shooting that rifle way down.

For hunting elk I used the PP bullet with IMR-3031. I worked up to a load of 60 grains which gave 2450 fps in my Interarms Mark X rifle. At this power lever the rifle was not hard recoiling. Not for a somewhat flat shooting CB elk rifle.
6802168022
-Michael Rix

Hi Michael,
I am surprised you got such good results from that slick boolit. So far every attempt I have made using slicks and smokeless powder has been a complete failure. Roughing them up with a file sometimes helps, but I still get wild fliers. Making the boolits with small "tumble lube" type grooves keeps the patch on during the trip down the bore and results in exceptionally good performance. Slicks have worked very well for me using black powder though, that's all I would use there. Are you using some secret technique to get those to work for you? Something we can learn about?

Thanks!

-Nobade

[MattOrgan]

You are right in the ballpark with your 3031 load and that bullet. I use the 375449 sized at .376 without a gas check in my .375 cast from wheel weights and 30 grains of 3031. My average velocity is 1450 fps. Accuracy is reliably 1.5 inches at a 100 yards and there is a light wash of lead in the bore that patches out easily. Have you chronographed your load? My experience has been
that between 1500 and 1600 fps accuracy begins to fall off with my un checked bullet. You might be approaching that barrier. The .375 is a great cartridge all around and has been the easiest cast bullet cartridge to work with for me.

[leftiye]

You are right in the ballpark with your 3031 load and that bullet. I use the 375449 sized at .376 without a gas check in my .375 cast from wheel weights and 30 grains of 3031. My average velocity is 1450 fps. Accuracy is reliably 1.5 inches at a 100 yards and there is a light wash of lead in the bore that patches out easily. Have you chronographed your load? My experience has been
that between 1500 and 1600 fps accuracy begins to fall off with my un checked bullet. You might be approaching that barrier. The .375 is a great cartridge all around and has been the easiest cast bullet cartridge to work with for me.

Good results. What lube are you using? What alloy are you using please? I'm tempted to think that you shouldn't be getting antimonial wash at that speed, nor losing accuracy so soon with increased velocity. Gas check, slower powder(?), cow filler(?), harder alloy maybe.

[Char-Gar]

The 375 Holland and Holland is a great rifle cartridge and rifles chambered for it are very cast bullet friendly. It is not great trick to get 250 to 320 grain gas check bullets to shoot well with medium powders, but that was not your question.

At 1.5 to 1.6 K fps, you are pushing the outer limits of plain base cast bullet performance. You might make it, but my suggestion would be to start at about 1.3 to 1.4 K fps and sneak up on the higher speeds and find out where your bullets start to roll snake eyes and then back off a hair.

You will be better off with powders in the 2400,4227 and 4759 range with the latter having the most bulk. With the ash can size case, you should look at the use of Dacron filler to hold the powder against the primer flash.

I am slightly skeptical about 1.6 K fps, but otherwise your project is quite doable. Have fun and let us know how things work out.

[David2011]

Sharpsguy,

Take a look at this. http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/ByCaliber/Cast%20in%20the%20375%20H_H.pdf Lots of reduced load data. Your boolit at 1500-1600 fps from a rifle should be very pleasant. I'm shooting a 255 grain boolit at 1600 fps from a 14" Contender. It's stout but manageable. I have a .375 H&H project underway myself and am looking to shoot the RCBS 250 grainboolit at 1700-2000 fps depending on what gives the best accuracy. Should be an incredible hog rifle.

David

[Pilgrim]

Not an H&H, but the RCBS boolit is fairly easily pushed to the velocities you want in a .375 BB94. I've got one and am using surplus 680 to reach those velocities (around 2000 fps).

[x101airborne]

From an armchair quarterback standpoint, if you want to try your loads out on some Texas hogs, all you need to do is call........

[lup]

The 375 Holland and Holland is a great rifle cartridge and rifles chambered for it are very cast bullet friendly. It is not great trick to get 250 to 320 grain gas check bullets to shoot well with medium powders, but that was not your question.

At 1.5 to 1.6 K fps, you are pushing the outer limits of plain base cast bullet performance. You might make it, but my suggestion would be to start at about 1.3 to 1.4 K fps and sneak up on the higher speeds and find out where your bullets start to roll snake eyes and then back off a hair.

You will be better off with powders in the 2400,4227 and 4759 range with the latter having the most bulk. With the ash can size case, you should look at the use of Dacron filler to hold the powder against the primer flash.

I am slightly skeptical about 1.6 K fps, but otherwise your project is quite doable. Have fun and let us know how things work out.

Can you explain where to get or make Dacron filler? I've seen it mentioned in the Lyman book but no mention of what it is.

Thank you

[Muskyhunter1]

I think my Wife buys it for quilting. Check out the quilt store. I recall seeing some at Wally Mart too. The gals make pillows with that stuff.

[Char-Gar]

Yep, hobby and fabric stores. Run a search on this site and you will be overwhelmed with information about the use of Dacron as a filler.

[Larry Gibson]

Can you explain where to get or make Dacron filler? I've seen it mentioned in the Lyman book but no mention of what it is.

Thank you

Repost from the sticky "The Proper Use of Fillers";

I have for many, many years found dacron (polyester fill) to be the best "filler". I use a filler only when appropriate. Many think I always use a filler with every powder....I DO NOT!!!! The use of the filler can cause problems if not used correctly and when appropriate. If the powder is not correct for the bullet/cartridge combination then the filler is not going to make it "right". Many want to use a specific powder for a cartridge because the powder is "cheap" or because "they have a lot of it". There are lots of powders that are not only poor choices to use but that can be dangerous if used in an inappropriate bullet/cartridge combination. Do yourself a favor if you are wanting to use an inappropriate powder (usually "no data" available is an indication the powder might be inappropriate) and get an appropriate powder. You will save yourself a lot of frustration. The use of the dacron filler only makes an appropriate powder perform better. The dacron filler will not make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

I don't use the dacron filler or a wad with the fast to medium burning "fast" pistol /shotgun type powders. I find one of these fast burning powders that is fast enough to ignite and burn efficiently at the velocity I want and avoid using a filler with them.

I almost always use the dacron filler in rifle cases with the slower “fast” burning powders (4227, 4759, 5744, 4198, etc. with lighter medium weight bullets for the cartridge; i.e. 140 - 165 gr bullets in .30/.31 cals of 30-30 through '06 case capacity), the medium burning powders (RL7, 3031, 4895, etc.) up through the slow burning powders (RL19, AA4350, H4831SC, RL22, 3100, etc.) that give around 80% or less loading density under medium to heavy weight bullets for the cartridge; i.e. 170 - 220+ gr bullets in .30/.31 cals. Those examples are for the .30/.31 cals but the same guidance applies to other calibers. The dacron filler is used only between the powder and base of the bullet.

The “dacron” is polyester fill as commonly found in pillows and toys. It also comes in sheets called “batting”. It can be obtained very reasonably at most any fabric store.

The dacron batting comes in various thicknesses. I prefer that which is about 5/8" thick. My wife recently bought me 10 yards which will give many, many thousands of cast bullet loads. With this current batch of batting I cut it initially across the width into strips about 3/4" wide. I then "eyeball" cut 1/2" wide chunks which is close to 3/4 gr.

A smaller chunk is cut for 1/2 gr and larger for a larger amount. I've cut some chunks that weight 1/2, 3/4, 1, 1 1/4 and 1 1/2 grs and have them in a "snack" baggie stuck on a poster board above my loading bench for quick reference when I need to cut new chunks. The batting will run thin and thick throughout the sheet so I again just "eyeball it" based on the thickness of the batting when cutting the chunks.

Pretty extensive tests have demonstrated that the weight of the filler does not have to be exact, only close. What is important is that there is enough so that it “fills" the space between powder and bullet. A little too much hurts nothing but too little poses problems. That's why I have the different size "chunks" so I can use the right size for the case capacity I am filling. For example; with most medium burning powders (3031, 4895, 4064) in and '06 to function an M1 a 3/4 gr dacron filler is about right. With slower powders that give a higher loading density like 4831 a 1/2 gr filler is about right.

I use a section of .22 cal cleaning rod in cartridges of .30 - .375 cal to push the Dacron chunk inside the case just so it is all in. The 6 to 10" section gives plenty to hold onto and sufficient "feel". Merely hold the chunk of dacron over the case mouth and shove it in with the rod. Sometimes it takes a couple three pokes to ensure all is inside the case mouth. I poke the chunks in until all the dacron is at the bottom of the neck or at least all in the case. It doesn’t matter exactly where just so long as you don’t tamp it down on the powder as a wad and leaved a space between the base of the bullet and the dacron.

What you want to do is push it in to let the base of the bullet finish pushing it down and adding any compression against the powder. Thus I do not push it down on the powder but let the bullet do that when the bullet is seated. Using the right size chunk of dacron this method then provides a "filler" in the air space between the powder and base of the bullet.

A small length of coat hanger works for the .22-7mm cartridges and an unsharpened pencil works well for .45 cals. With the charged cases in a loading block I simply hold the chunk of dacron over the case mouth and push it in with the rod. It is quite easy and a lot of “precision is not required, just get the dacron into the case and let the bullet finish pushing it down.

Larry Gibson

[Chill Wills]

Hey Nobade, No, no secret that I know of...... or can share.
I have not really spent much brain time on the smokeless/PP bullet aspect and have really had great loads in every attempt. Sorry, that is not helpful. My memory is not so great so maybe that is not true and I just think so. It has been a while since I have even played the smokeless/PP combo. I have PP moulds for a bunch of rifles, and much of my current shooting with them is with BP only. In smokeless I have patched (successfully) for the .338 cases, 348 win using a jacketed 338 patched up for 348. 35 Whelen and then the most experience by far as measured by shots fired has been with the 375H&H and 38-55 class rifles and patched/smokeless 45-70 rifles.
The smaller bores worked and would give them a summer in development and then I hunted with them and moved on.

The one area I can see that I depart with that is often stated as a truism is in the as cast size of the PP bullet for smokeless shooting. I cast large (much larger) as cast bullets than has been recommended. Stated wisdom of .001 over bore diameter may not fill the chamber-neck and throat and if problems arise that might be the place to think about. In the case of this topic, the 375 H&H, my rifle has a huge case neck and throat diameter. The bullet in the picture for the 375 H&H measures .372" I know, wow! That is big. If your rifles are blessed with this large throat condition too, that might be something to consider. Here is my thinking on addressing the problem. When choosing a paper patch bullet diameter I do not worry about barrel bore/groove size on a production rifle as much as chamber neck/throat diameter. On a custom rifle or target rifle it is the first thing to consider when ordering a reamer but on a rifle that comes to you built, we are stuck with what it is.... so I like a bullet that is large enough and fills the chamber neck for all cast bullet shooting be it GG bullets or the PP bullet. The advantages, as you know, are better alinement and then the real biggie with PP bullets- better gas seal. This is especially true with PP, filling up the chamber and throat to seal the case off has to be a good thing.
Gota go - dang work gets in the way...... did not proof read so might not make sense -Michael Rix

[Nobade]

Thanks Michael, your experiences pretty well mirror mine. Normally I can come up with a patched diameter that slips into a fired case and fits the throat without sizing the cases. That is the best situation, happens sometimes and sometimes not. I also use .372" boolits in my 375, patched with 9# onionskin to .377". That fits the cases and throat just right. I just wish I could get smokeless and slicks to play together - homemade moulds are easy to make to produce slicks, much harder with grease grooves!
Thanks again,

-Nobade

[TXGunNut]

Not an H&H, but the RCBS boolit is fairly easily pushed to the velocities you want in a .375 BB94. I've got one and am using surplus 680 to reach those velocities (around 2000 fps). -Pilgrim


Ya'll are going to force me to abduct my 375 BB 94 safe queen and do a smackdown on some piggies. In some ways the BB makes more sense than the H&H for cast boolit velocities. For some reason the H&H sounds like more fun.

[x101airborne]

It is just seeing that big ole honkin cartridge sliding into the chamber. Just looks like something getting ready to get the smackdown.

[NVScouter]

I did some longer range shooting yesterday. Shot everything from the bench on 6 power.

200 yards
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f10/NVScouter/27803A7A-4867-428C-AA4B-B719F5F8FBED-6506-00000B9DC6D6E80F.jpg
300 yards
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f10/NVScouter/E6A4846E-91E8-457A-A721-5D282B64863D-6506-00000B9DF0EBC67A.jpg
400 yards. Bottom left 5 shots I was aiming at a rock on the berm above it to stay somewhat consistant.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f10/NVScouter/E50C891A-0AF3-4413-85FB-DE2F7C11437A-6506-00000B9E1A7CAA27.jpg

No turrets so all hold over was estimated using the 12" tall paper as a range guide. Calculated drop using a .250 BC, I didn't want to mess with wind age but the crosswind was picking up after sight in.

This thing shoots so well I may get turrets for it.

[NVScouter]

So this is a good 400y cast hunting rifle that's better than many folks can claim. I'm working on a mold design to bring the weight and BC up a bit with a MV around 2,000fps.

[Nobade]

Glad to see you got it working! Those 375s are mighty useful rifles.

-Nobade

[x101airborne]

That is some fantastic results. Way to go.
Want to come help me with my 338-06 project?
With accuracy like yours, I would NEVER need a J-boolit again. Way to go.

[NVScouter]

That is some fantastic results. Way to go.
Want to come help me with my 338-06 project?
With accuracy like yours, I would NEVER need a J-boolit again. Way to go.

Only if have some pigs around!

But to be honest this is a listed Ken Water's pet load so the development goes to him. I just set the forward band to engage the rifling and put boolit to paper. The CZ's set trigger really helps too. I'm thinking that this Leupold VXIII needs some turrets to I dont have to do the Hillbilly Holdover in the field.

[mstarling]

I love the .375 H&H M70 SS Classic. Is a GREAT rifle with 300 gr TSXs at 2600 fps.

Have worked some with the Lyman 375449 cast in WW and lubed with Carnuba Red propelled with AA5744. I chose AA5744 because I didn't want to get into using a filler in a bottle neck cartridge.

Results are promising but not as accurate as the .416 Aagaard w 400 gr cast projectiles. Great for practice.

[Nobade]

Only if have some pigs around!

But to be honest this is a listed Ken Water's pet load so the development goes to him. I just set the forward band to engage the rifling and put boolit to paper. The CZ's set trigger really helps too. I'm thinking that this Leupold VXIII needs some turrets to I dont have to do the Hillbilly Holdover in the field.

Check out the Vortex 1-4 Razor. 220MOA internal adjustment plus lines in the reticle. Too bad it's only 4X, but it really lets you shoot way out there with boolits!

After my eyes completely **** out on me so the irons aren't useful any more I am thinking about putting one of those on my Ruger #1 45-70 with a 90-100 MOA canted base. Probably be looking at the middle of the barrel but I ought to be able to hit things past 1000 yards with it.

-Nobade

[35Whelen]

Ken Waters load 270g over 34g R7 @1750fps. 3 shots at 100y.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f10/NVScouter/6C954FAB-70D1-40C8-8B38-EC4FBC3D9EB2-2434-0000038A7E019E96.jpg

I've been working on my new 375 H&H for the last couple weeks. The shot to the right is not from this group but site in on a target to the right. I also tried 17.5g of Unique but the wind was blowing the bench around so grouping was like 4" at 100y, I think they were around 1450fps since I didnt bring my chrono.

NV Scout.....mind telling me what bullet that was please....just got a beautiful CZ 500 in 375 H&H and want to fire up the furnace? Thank you