Hunting with .45 colt black powder loads

[Holeinhide]

My question about BP .45 colt is,is this enough for hunting deer? I hunt with a Blackhawk now and use hot loads that I add a bit of red paint to so I don't feed them to my colt repro's. It would be great to have one load that will work in both the BH and the colts. The load I am looking at using is a Lyman 452-664 lubed with Emmerits, cast from 20 to 1 in a Starline case primed with a federal 150. I dropped 40 grains of KIK 3F in a volume measure and got a average weight of 37.2 grs. This is giving me about 1/16 of an inch compression on my powder. At this point I am loading up 50 for range testing just to see how they shoot. I hunt in heavy cover and a 7 to 10 yard shot is about all I get here in the Pennsylvania thorn rose paradise I call SGL 91. Any advice from you experienced smokewagon hunters would be much appreciated. Thank you.

Holeinhide.

[runfiverun]

a 250 at @ 900 fps with a flat point and semi-soft alloy.
within 25 yds distance.
i'd say you have no problem.
the original 45 colt with a 250 [and approx. 40 grs black powder] at that same velocity was specced to take down a horse.
the 664 has a lot more meplat than the original 45 colt boolit.

[elk hunter]

I believe it was in "Sixguns" that Elmer Keith told of a cowboy shooting a grizzly through the head with a 45 Colt loaded with black powder that easily killed the bear . I would think it would take deer sized game as well.

[TXGunNut]

A BP load is hotter than my old hunting load. I'm working on a new SP hunting load for my Ruger but it's not much hotter than a BP load. I've toyed with the idea of a BP hunting load myself, have no doubt it will do the job.

[sharpsguy]

37 grains of KIK 3f under a 250 grain bullet is plenty for deer. A rancher friend of mine in Wyoming shot a rank Angus bull between the eyes with his 45LC using the same load and dropped the bull on the spot from a distance of six yards. The meat processor called and wanted to know what the bull had been shot with. He found the bullet in the neck just in front of the shoulders. That load has more horsepower than you might think.

[Holeinhide]

That's great information, I got so tired of the you need a hand cannon to hunt deer story that I began to wonder how we ever survived the old days. When I started to research BP loading I found that all the years of not using my SAA's (they just feel better and I shoot better with them) may have been a waste. As a long time smokeless loader filling the case and squashing the powder seemed counterintuitive. I cant wait to get to the range to test them out, I plan to start them in the BH and move through the SAA repro's and see what happens.

[Dale53]

I have taken a half dozen deer with a handgun (.44 Magnum with my cast bullets running from 1200-1300 fps).

I few years ago I was competing with BPCR Silhouette. They had side matches for fixed sight black powder revolvers. I ended up with a Ruger Bisley Vaquero. I loaded up using several different black powder loads. The velocity with Lyman's 452664 (30-1 lead/tin) ran from 750 fps with Elephant 2f to Swiss 3f with a velocity of 900+ fps (chronographed). That load won me a goodly number of major matches. It shot extremely well but I must admit that the recoil gets tiring when you shoot fifty in a row. I seriously wondered about hunting with that load, but never quite got around to it.

At any rate, I used a good black powder lube (started with SPG which worked fine but ended up using Emmert's home mix which worked equally well but was much less expensive). I sized my bullets to .452" (which proved correct in my revolver). I filled the case to the point that it compressed 1/16" when seating the bullet. Any more compression and you can deform the soft bullet. I got excellent accuracy (slightly above 2" at 25 yards). As far as power goes, I don't think it'll be a problem. I would practice shooting it from field positions to determine YOUR maximum range (I felt confident to 100 yards but I ALWAYS endeavor to get as close as possible). I suggest putting a paper pie plate up at various distances and let 100% hits guide you in determining your maximum distance on game.

I predict that you'll have total penetration from any angle at reasonable ranges. Hit them right and you'll take them home...

Here's my Bisley Vaquero:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/RugerVaquero-2.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/RugerVaquero-2.jpg.html)

Dale53

[StrawHat]

My question about BP .45 colt is,is this enough for hunting deer? I hunt with a Blackhawk now and use hot loads that I add a bit of red paint to so I don't feed them to my colt repro's. It would be great to have one load that will work in both the BH and the colts. The load I am looking at using is a Lyman 452-664 lubed with Emmerits, cast from 20 to 1 in a Starline case primed with a federal 150. I dropped 40 grains of KIK 3F in a volume measure and got a average weight of 37.2 grs. This is giving me about 1/16 of an inch compression on my powder. At this point I am loading up 50 for range testing just to see how they shoot. I hunt in heavy cover and a 7 to 10 yard shot is about all I get here in the Pennsylvania thorn rose paradise I call SGL 91. Any advice from you experienced smokewagon hunters would be much appreciated. Thank you.

Holeinhide.

I have used blackpowder and the Lyman 454424 or Lyman 454190 on Ohio whitetails. Complete penetration is the rule, from any angle. At the ranges you mention, bring something to extinguish the smolering hide!

[Thumbcocker]

How far do you have to disassemble the revolver for cleaning with BP?

[44man]

OH yes! I have killed many deer with my Ruger Old Army and round balls. My friend did well with a Remington cap and ball.
You see that it is the ball or boolit that does the work, not the velocity or ME.
Anyone that tells me a BP .45 load is junk, means I will have little respect for his opinion.

[Dale53]

Thumbcocker;
I have always cleaned my revolver at the range when using black powder. However, if I were hunting, I would wait until I got back to camp:-P. I use a home mixed black powder solvent we call "Friendship Speed Juice" and yes, I learned about it from shooting competition at the National Black Powder Matches at Friendship, IN. At any rate, you mix equal amounts of Murphy's Oil Soap, Rubbing Alcohol, and Hydrogen Pyroxide. It positively EATS blackpowder fouling. It is only necessary to remove the cylinder from the revolver and swab the barrel and cylinder. Pay particular attention to the frame opening and all of the crevices thereon. Dry carefully, then IMMEDIATELY apply Ed's Red liberally in and out of the barrel and cylinder and the rest of the revolver (again paying particular attention to the crevices).

As you can see by the picture my revolver looks like new (inside and out) after several seasons of competition. Once a year, it might be a good idea to detail strip the revolver and clean and lubricate.

NOTE: After cleaning with Friendship Speed Juice, your revolver is chemically clean and is subject to rust if you do not apply good protection. I prefer Ed's Red (home mix) but Dexron II or III transmission fluid is a superior protectant and readily available (far superior to most "gun oils").

FWIW
Dale53

[Thumbcocker]

Thanks.

[Mk42gunner]

My question about BP .45 colt is,is this enough for hunting deer? I hunt with a Blackhawk now and use hot loads that I add a bit of red paint to so I don't feed them to my colt repro's. It would be great to have one load that will work in both the BH and the colts. The load I am looking at using is a Lyman 452-664 lubed with Emmerits, cast from 20 to 1 in a Starline case primed with a federal 150. I dropped 40 grains of KIK 3F in a volume measure and got a average weight of 37.2 grs. This is giving me about 1/16 of an inch compression on my powder. At this point I am loading up 50 for range testing just to see how they shoot. I hunt in heavy cover and a 7 to 10 yard shot is about all I get here in the Pennsylvania thorn rose paradise I call SGL 91. Any advice from you experienced smokewagon hunters would be much appreciated. Thank you.

Holeinhide.

At 7 to 10 yards, a blackpowder .22 Long Rifle would work; if legal. I see no problem with your BP .45 Colt load.

Robert

[x101airborne]

Didn't a load similar to that kill Teddy Roosevelt's horse?
Well, while he was riding it of course.

[TXGunNut]

Loaded up a big handful of BP 45 Colt rounds yesterday. Stated purpose was to feed my growing string of Colts and Colt clones but can't rule out a BP hunt some year soon. SAA or even a BP stoked RBH would make a cool backup for a 45-90 1874 Sharps...new mainspring for the Sharps is in the mail!

[Holeinhide]

DALE53 thanks for the cleaning tips, That would have been my next question. Do you need to clean away the Ed's red before shooting? I looked up the home mix for it and it is chock full of petro products. For a gun I am actively shooting I normally wipe it dry after cleaning. When it is safe bound I leave a light film of oil on it. Is wiping it dry enough to prevent problems with fouling?
As stated I have never worked with black before. I do have a cap and ball that I shoot pyrodex in, I clean it with hot soapy water and lube with canola oil. I was planning to do the same but your method sound more practical.

[Dale53]

I always run a dry patch through any firearm that I have oiled for storage before shooting. You might want to read the full story about Ed's Red from the man, himself. Using it without lanolin, it is good for about a year of rust free storage. If you add lanolin, as per directions, it is good for long term storage.

I regularly use Ed's Red for all of my firearms, smokeless as well as Black Powder. Here's the complete story:

http://home.comcast.net/~dsmjd/tux/dsmjd/tech/eds_red.htm

NOTE: When dealing with black powder fouling or corrosive smokeless powder fouling, it is a good idea to clean again (with just Ed's Red the second time) to insure you covered everything with a good protective film. That was recommended to me in the military (about 100 years ago:veryconfu) and is still good advice. Ed Harris comments on the very same thing in his article on Ed's Red. I merely run a wet patch through the bore and chambers just in case you might have missed a spot, a couple of days later. Then it's good for about a year of storage. If you have long time storage in mind, then add lanolin.

Dale53

[44man]

Now to clean a revolver after BP is just easy. Remove the grips and cylinder. Toss the metal into the laundry tub, hose it all, use some soap and brushes, patches and when clean, hose with HOT water.
Spray with Sheath or Barricade, inside and out. Lube the cylinder pin and ratchet with STP and put the grips back on.
Water will NOT hurt your gun.

[retread]

I tired some BP loads in my Ruger Vaquero yesterday. What a hoot! Nice group, plenty of zing and a nice cloud of smoke. Who could ask for more. I do have one question for you folks that have experience with BP cartridges. I know you need to thoroughly clean your weapon after firing BP because of its corrosive nature. Also I was reading about the need to deprime, wash and rinse in hot water and tumble clean all brass ASAP after use. Now my question. How much concern is there for loaded, unfired cartridges corroding when stored. Do I need to wait until I know I will be going to the range before loading cases or can I load up a batch ahead of time. And if so, how much time can safely pass before they are fired and not experience any ill affects from corrosion. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Jay

[Dale53]

When shooting at the range, I carry a decapper in my kit. I decap the cases after range use, drop them in a gallon milk jug filled 3/4 with tap water and a couple of squirts of Dawn Dish washing liquid. By the time I get home, the cases are ready to rinse with hot water. I then dump the jug full of brass in a collander (dedicated to the task), shake off the excess water and dump them in a tumbler and tumble for an hour or so. They come out looking like new. If you don't tumble them, they turn dark. They look grungy but it really doesn't seem to hurt them (at least the people who don't tumble tell me so...).

Regarding ammo loaded with black powder. They are good for nearly forever. Black powder is not corrosive, really. That only happens when they are fired - it is the fouling that attracts moisture that causes the problem. Cartridges that have been loaded for decades is often still viable.

FWIW
Dale53

[retread]

Dale,
Thanks for the info. I like the jug with water and dawn taken to the range suggestion. I got back from the range and washed the brass in hot water and Joy, then rinsed. Let dry till today and tossed them in the tumbler for about an hour. They still had darkened a lot. Glad to hear I can load a bunch up ahead of time. Most of the time things are busy and when I get a break and want to head to the range I like to have everything packed and ready to go. Thanks again for the help.
Jay

[44man]

Yes, Dale is right on.
BP is a hoot and very affective. The only difference is the need to clean to prevent rust. Wash the brass. Water is your friend.

[plinky56]

You're gonna be fine with that load. With a .45, you need a meplat of .320 or larger, and 1000 fps and you wil put a 3/4 inch hole in and out, and will probably penetrate at least 24" to boot, without all the pressure and recoil. Colt knew what he was doing 'back in the day.' My deer load is with a .45, kieth swc and 9gr of unique which equates to around 900 fps out of a 4" blackhawk. They go about 40 yards, if that. Not much recoil; not much muzzle blast.

[rexherring]

One day at the range I was shooting some steel plates with my .45 BH and BP loads. Case was stuffed with Wano 2F, mag primer, and some Lee 300 gr RNFP. One of the guys asked If I was shooting a .44 mag due to the loud smack and how fast the plates fell down. I had to laugh because he didn't notice all the smoke and smell. Needless to say, he was impressed that a BP load had so much power. I wouldn't be a bit afraid to hunt deer with that load.

[Dale53]

Considering that we have well over 100 years of collective experience with the Black Powder .45 Colt, I really didn't appreciate what a powerhouse that load is until I started shooting Black Powder matches with it. I have a serious background in muzzle loading firearms in general (only live about 45 minutes from Friendship, In and the black powder Nationals, but until I got serious about BPCR Silhoutte and the side black powder cartridge revolver matches, I really didn't realize quite what this load amounted to. I could have quoted the ballistics as I was quite familiar with them but until you actually experience it, it is just words on paper[smilie=1:. After I had some experience with it, THEN I really began to understand what a great load our Army Cavalry had in this load and the single action Colt revolver. A good man and a good black powder cartridge rifle and sided with the .45 Colt revolver, made a formidable man out of THAT combination.

I had pretty much stopped deer hunting (got too old to drag a deer out of the woods) by the time I learned this or I will GUARANTEE you that I would have taken a deer or two with this load.:drinks:

FWIW
Dale53