What size propane burner

[jroc]

I have seen some great ideas and I got it in my head to build myself a big melting pot. I got a pretty good stash of lead taking up a lot of space in my shop. I figure if I at least cast it into ingots it will stack better and take up less space. Here's my thoughts.If a guy was going to build a bottom pour pot, I've got a 12" pipe about 9" long it's schedule 40 pipe. I was wondering how many btu's it would take to make a decent pot. Here's what I was thinking of using:
http://www.bayouclassicdepot.com/bg12_cast_iron_burner.htm
http://www.bayouclassicdepot.com/m5hpr_propane_regulator.htm

I'm thinking this would give a guy enough heat to get up to temp fairly quick and then throttle her back to maintain a desired temp. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks. Jim

[Matt_G]

I think you're right, that would probably be enough heat to do the job.
If my math is correct, a 12 inch diameter pot filled to a depth of 7 inches (Leaving two inches head room) would be 326 pounds of lead.
You are going to need a real sturdy mount for this pot you're proposing...

[alamogunr]

jroc: My pot is made of exactly the same size pipe. The bottom is .5" plate and total height is approx. 10". I have never posted a picture before but I have one on my computer. I may try tomorrow.

The pot has 3 angle iron legs welded to the outside to hold it above the burner. My biggest problem was getting enough air to the burner. Finally punched holes in the shield that I made to keep the heat in and the wind from blowing the flame.

My burner is a homemade job I put together with advice from the local propane dealer. It is a single orifice burner mounted in a 1/4' pipe nipple and that mounted inside a 3/4" nipple. I don't remember the size of the orifice but when cranked up, it sounds like a jet engine. Takes about 20-30 min. to melt down a full pot of WW. Actually longer since it takes about 3-4 shovels full to get the liquid level up to within about 3" of the top.

Your 9" length sounds about right. Any higher and you will have trouble getting a ladle to the bottom. Also it is scary to try to pour out the last bit of melt when finished. I just leave it in the bottom.
I'm not ambitious enough to try to convert it to a bottom pour.

[alamogunr]

Whoopee!

Here is a picture of my base for the big pot.

67827

This shows the pot on the base.
67828

The base plate is a piece of salvaged 1/2" thick steel. The legs are 1.5" steel tubing. The ID of the tubing was just right to tap for 1" bolts.

[shadowcaster]

I think you're right, that would probably be enough heat to do the job.
If my math is correct, a 12 inch diameter pot filled to a depth of 7 inches (Leaving two inches head room) would be 326 pounds of lead.
You are going to need a real sturdy mount for this pot you're proposing...

Your math is correct..

It takes some doing to get a pot that size and that much lead up to temp. My turkey fryer (high pressure) puts out 58,000 BTU's and my bottom pour pot holds almost 400 pounds. I had to do a custom reenforce job on the burner to get it to hold the weight.

Also.. Don't make your pot so deep that you have trouble scraping, stirring, and scooping. The ideas behind a better pot is to make the process easier/better.

Shad

[7Acres]

Shadowcaster, can you share some pics of your ~400 lb pot?


Your math is correct..

It takes some doing to get a pot that size and that much lead up to temp. My turkey fryer (high pressure) puts out 58,000 BTU's and my bottom pour pot holds almost 400 pounds. I had to do a custom reenforce job on the burner to get it to hold the weight.

Also.. Don't make your pot so deep that you have trouble scraping, stirring, and scooping. The ideas behind a better pot is to make the process easier/better.

Shad

[Marlin Junky]

For rendering about 90-100 pounds of alloy at a time (that would be in a pretty good sized cast iron sauce pan) and if you have a outdoor nat-gas bib, (or nipple, whatever it's called) consider a water heater burner. Natural gas will melt the alloy a lot cheaper than propane.

MJ

[LUCKYDAWG13]

this is what i use 67838

[felix]

Natural gas, if all methane, will put out 50% of gasoline's energy. Straight up propane puts out 90%. Figure your costs on that. Some places, like in some Louisiana areas, will supply natural gas with up to 20% propane as of 20 years or so ago. Maybe today all high order gasses are stripped from methane before distribution. Always compare to gasoline for ultimate costs of heating. ... felix

In every case, though, a shroud over the apparatus is required to save money, and most especially with the higher heat sources such as heating oil, which should be compared to gasoline in the area as well. It all depends on how big, how much, etc. ... felix

[shadowcaster]

Shadowcaster, can you share some pics of your ~400 lb pot?

Sure no problem.. :-)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55291&d=1354647763

Here is a link to my whole smelting/casting set up.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?146065-New-bottom-pour-smelting-pot!&highlight=bottom+pour+smelting+pot

Shad

[LUCKYDAWG13]

wow thats nice

[USMC87]

That baby can melt some serious amounts of wheel weights.

[alamogunr]

Lots of folks here recommend a cut-off 20lb propane tank. I think the rounded bottom would be an advantage if you are going to ladle the clean lead rather than bottom pour. I don't anticipate doing much more, if any, cleaning up of WW, so my setup will just sit in storage until someone else wants to use it.

If I had it to do over again, I would try to work out bottom pour. That is a nice clean setup, Shad.

[shadowcaster]

Thanks guys :-)

It's efficient and a pleasure to use!

Shad

[RoGrrr]

Your math is correct..
<SNIP>
I had to do a custom reenforce job on the burner to get it to hold the weight.

Also.. Don't make your pot so deep that you have trouble scraping, stirring, and scooping. The ideas behind a better pot is to make the process easier/better.

Shad


Shad
I built my pot and mounted it on a strong mount (no, not Dillon) which does everything I need. However, you're right about the depth. My pot is 7x9x9D.
I cast range scrap so I do LOTS of scooping of jackets and dross. From time to time I burn my finger when I touch the side. I don't wear gloves. I do wear safety glasses and cotton shirt/pants, tho. I'm giving serious thought to getting rid of this pot and building a wide short pot like you built. I guess they call it a learning curve. I enjoy working in my shop. It's just like working (WAIT, HEY, it's NOT work; it's a HOBBY) in my reloading room.
Looks like I'll have to make another dreaded trip (yeah, right. I could LIVE at a scrap yard) to the scrap yard and see what they have. If I can't find a larger size rectangular or round pipe, I'll weld up a pan out of flat stock. Maybe I'll build a pot that is wider at the top than the bottom, making it easier to scoop/clean. Besides, the shape will make it more efficient, heat-wise. Yes, I'll still enclose it in a chimney but I think I'd get more heat put into the pot than if it simply had straight-up walls.
To me, the most time consuming part is the valve - the bracket for the lever and the valve pin itself. But since I have the pipe tap and a number of reducers, I'm ahead of the game for the bottom seal.

[shadowcaster]

To me, the most time consuming part is the valve - the bracket for the lever and the valve pin itself. But since I have the pipe tap and a number of reducers, I'm ahead of the game for the bottom seal.

My spout is just welded on and and the 2nd street elbow just screws on and off as needed. Simple by design, but efficient.


Looks like I'll have to make another dreaded trip (yeah, right. I could LIVE at a scrap yard) to the scrap yard and see what they have. If I can't find a larger size rectangular or round pipe, I'll weld up a pan out of flat stock.

I used a rim from a fork lift. It measures 17 inches across and I had to burn the tire off of it (what a purdy orange, evil looking fire). Not as much smoke as I would have figured. Then split the rim to the right height.

Shad

[jroc]

Lots of great input. Thanks for the ideas.
Matt G I know it will be heavy and need lots of support which has also had me thinking of another idea. I also figured the weight to be about 300 lbs + - a few lbs. I have another idea that I have been toying with.
Alamogunr Nice set up I like that a lot. I had not thought to much about ladle length and depth of pot sometimes the obvious eludes us - maybe from to many lead fumes lol. Anyhow making a longer ladle would just be part of the process.
Shadowcaster I have been watching your build and have got a lot of ideas from your build That is one nice setup you have. I am going to use a screw valve like you made on your set-up. I also will keep in mind about letting the heat escape out around the pipe so I don't have trouble with freeze up in the spout.
Marlin Junky where I live I don't have access to natural gas. I heat with propane. I was going to tie into my propane supply into the pole barn though. I was thinking of a quick coupler to plug into so I don't need to keep it hooked up all the time.
LuckyDawg13 That's a neat looking unit. Is your stand made out of stainless?
felix I figured that I would make a lid for it. 1: To help heat faster and 2: to keep debris out of the pot when not being used. My shop gets used for a multitude of projects and its hard to say what would end up in or on it. I have a ring roller and figured using 1"x1/8" strap and making a 13" ring and cut out and weld some 1/8" plate to it for a lid. Also never thought about fuel oil as a fuel for a burner. That would probably be cheaper than propane.

I also have a 26" length of 12" pipe I've been thinking if I cut out a plate to fit inside it, drill it for my spout and weld it in at 9" into the pipe this would make my pot. Then cut out my hole for my spout to come through. Then I could mount my burner under this. After I have my burner mounted I could go below my burner and skeletonize the rest of the pipe so it woud be my stand and all in one unit. It would be heavy but stable. I don't plan on moving it a lot anyway.

[shadowcaster]

Marlin Junky where I live I don't have access to natural gas. I heat with propane. I was going to tie into my propane supply into the pole barn though. I was thinking of a quick coupler to plug into so I don't need to keep it hooked up all the time.

I thought about doing the same thing, but then I talked with the propane guys. They told me that propane lines into a building are ALL... "low pressure", which will not work with a high pressure burner. Unless... you have a way of tapping into the line prior to the regulators. Using a hundred pound bottle and longer hose was the answer to my setup.

Shad

[detox]

I have seen some great ideas and I got it in my head to build myself a big melting pot. I got a pretty good stash of lead taking up a lot of space in my shop. I figure if I at least cast it into ingots it will stack better and take up less space. Here's my thoughts.If a guy was going to build a bottom pour pot, I've got a 12" pipe about 9" long it's schedule 40 pipe. I was wondering how many btu's it would take to make a decent pot. Here's what I was thinking of using:
http://www.bayouclassicdepot.com/bg12_cast_iron_burner.htm
http://www.bayouclassicdepot.com/m5hpr_propane_regulator.htm

I'm thinking this would give a guy enough heat to get up to temp fairly quick and then throttle her back to maintain a desired temp. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks. Jim

That will work perfect. I used the smaller version burner to smelt 117 lbs in # 8 cast iron pot. The cheap Walmart muffin pans in picture DID NOT WORK. They fell apart after first pour. I had to use my smaller cast iron RCBS ingut moulds.

Here's my burner:http://www.bayouclassicdepot.com/sp10_propane_burner.htm

[detox]

I would also make a couple of 10 lb ingot moulds with long handles if rigging your pot for bottom pour. It gets really hot around pot.

Watch this video on Cast Master electric smelting pot.
http://www.magmaengineering.com/products/cast-master/

http://www.magmaengineering.com/products/ingot-mold/

[jroc]

I was kind of wondering about pressures also shad but I was thinking about my water heater and it really roars when its firing and then marlinjunky suggested using a water heater burner. I wonder how many btu's they put out.

detox I was thinking of making something along the lines of what RoGrrr had built for ingot molds I also like RoGrrr's heat shield on the operators side of his caster.

[shadowcaster]

I was kind of wondering about pressures also shad but I was thinking about my water heater and it really roars when its firing and then marlinjunky suggested using a water heater burner. I wonder how many btu's they put out.

I would talk to your local propane professionals. Mine told me that the burner would lite, but I would never get the BTU's out of it that my high pressure burner was designed for if I ran it off the low pressure line to the house.

Shad

[jroc]

Ya Shad I've been thinking probably the 100lb. tank and the burner I was looking at will be the right way to go. For one even though I say I probably won't move it much I would rather have the ability to move it because no matter how much I figure something will be out of the way in the shop before long it is right in the middle of where I need to be with something else. lol Hey Shad where abouts are you at in NW Montana? My son lives outside of Columbia Falls. He's going with me to Alaska in August to chase some Caribou hopefully next year I can get out and do some elk hunting out there with him.

[shadowcaster]

Hey Shad where abouts are you at in NW Montana

I'm about 8 miles south of Columbia Falls right in the middle of the valley. Caribou and elk hunting.. sounds like a blast! :-)

Shad

[jroc]

Ya Shad really looking forward to a little more hunting in the fairly near future. I'm figurin on being retired by this time next year. Didn't mean to be so long getting back on here but I went back to work last week so I can't spend so much time on the computer. Anyhow My boys got a welding shop in a little Industrial complex south of 40 about 1/2 mile on 2, I think it's called Sunrise Creek Loop. His place is called Oak and Iron Welding. He does some pretty good work if you ever need anything fabbed up. So getting back to work will slow my pot down but I'll get it done sooner or later. I did order my burner, regulator and orifice. I didn't get a hose yet because all they had was an 8 footer I'm thinkin I would like 12 or 15 foot. I've got a couple 100 lb. tanks and would like to be able to keep them back out of the way a little. I have to check around and find someplace I can get them this long. I'm going to keep my eyes open for some more 12" pipe. I'm a crane operator but usually work with pipefitters and got a couple of them that are pretty good friends that should be able to hook me up.