Winchester low wall original rechamber to 25-35

[pjogrinc]

First, what was the original low wall chamberings?
Have a barrel coming that looks like a sewer pipe, price was right, and was thinking of chambering it to 25-35. Already have a 25-20 SS original gun, option would be to put in a barrel liner with a 1 in 10 twist for heavier bullets in the 25-20 SS.

Let me know.

[bob208]

25-20 wcf. 32-20 wcf. .38-40 .44-40. .25 rf .32 rf .38 extra long.

[Nobade]

Don't do a 25-35 on a low wall. You'll kill it in short order. Stick to 25-20 repeater or single shot, the case head is a more appropriate size.

-Nobade

[uscra112]

If a .25 caliber liner is going in, I'd look at a .25 caliber based on the .222R case, so long as it were only for boolits. But my first choice would be a .32 S&W Long, followed by the .32-20. Then there's a modern version of the .32 Extra Long, using a cut-off and slimmed-down .222R case. . . . Or just chamber .32 H&R magnum and control your urge to load it up to factory pressures.

Truth is, I thought long and hard about .25-35 on a Low Wall, because I have a modern .25-35 barrel already threaded to fit. But I decided not to, in deference to the weak support of the breech block. So that action sits waiting for me to do something more reasonable with it. The .32s I mentioned still rattle around in my brain on cold winter nights.

[390ish]

A reboring in 38-40 would be tempting.

[Frank46]

The low wall breechblock does not have the support that a high wall block does. So what usually happens is you get cracks on the backside of the breechblock mortise on the action itself. When that happens usually its the end of any further use of the action. Frank

[pietro]

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FWIW, if the .25-20 original barrel "looks like a sewer pipe", rechambering to anything won't change that one bit - it needs a either a new barrel, the existing barrel bored out & relined to .257", or the barrel just bored out to a larger size to clean the sewer - say .32 or .35 cal.

Although the newer Miroku/Browning Low Walls were chambered in .22 Hornet & .243 Winchester, the modern steels they're made of are a far cry from the 90 to 100+ year-old steel.

I'm wondering if a handloaded .256 Winchester (a necked-down .357 magnum) would work.


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[badgeredd]

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FWIW, if the .25-20 original barrel "looks like a sewer pipe", rechambering to anything won't change that one bit - it needs a either a new barrel, the existing barrel bored out & relined to .257", or the barrel just bored out to a larger size to clean the sewer - say .32 or .35 cal.

Although the newer Miroku/Browning Low Walls were chambered in .22 Hornet & .243 Winchester, the modern steels they're made of are a far cry from the 90 to 100+ year-old steel.

I'm wondering if a handloaded .256 Winchester (a necked-down .357 magnum) would work.

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Sleeving and re-chambering to 256 Win Mag has one draw-back in that ammo is available at full pressure loads which could potentially be dangerous. I had considered the same option but decided against it for that reason. I have no control over what could potentially happen when others got the gun. SO I opted for a 38 Special chambering. I've not regretted the choice once since I finished the gun. Advantages are easily re-loadable to very quiet fun loads, safe ammo is readilly available, and it is just plain fun. More info here is you're the least bit interested.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?164207-38-Special-OLD-low-wall-project

Edd

[uscra112]

. Although the newer Miroku/Browning Low Walls were chambered in .22 Hornet & .243 Winchester, the modern steels they're made of are a far cry from the 90 to 100+ year-old steel

The Miroku "Low Walls" actually are halfway between a true Low Wall and a High Wall. The breech block gets much better support. That's why they got away with chambering for high pressure cartridges.

[BCRider]

25-20 wcf. 32-20 wcf. .38-40 .44-40. .25 rf .32 rf .38 extra long.

So what do you folks think about chambering such a rifle in .38Spl? Other than perhaps that it's sacreligious :D

[Nobade]

I wouldn't do it. It would be fine if only used with black powder or VERY light smokeless loads, but if some +P loads got in there it could start to tear up the action. They were made in 38 extra long, so if there was some way you could ensure it was only used with black it would be great.

32-20 would be probably a better choice since as far as I know there's no factory hot rod ammo available for it.

-Nobade

[badgeredd]

So what do you folks think about chambering such a rifle in .38Spl? Other than perhaps that it's sacreligious :D

Like I said earlier, the 38 Special works very well on the vintage Low Wall action. It was originally chambered in 32-20 which was loaded with smokeless in the early 20th century with increased pressure which is roughly the same as the 38 Special loads. While the possibility is there for +P loads, I seriously doubt the added pressure would be a detriment. I wouldn't feed it a steady diet of +P loads and would likely stamp it with "38 Special Standard Pressure" when building it. There are revolvers out there that shouldn't be fed +P 38 Specials so if you stamp it as I mentioned, it shouldn't be a problem. Fact is the owner has to take some responsibility and with it being correctly marked, I see no problem. I think one can get too cautious trying to protect idiots from themselves.

Edd

P.S. 38 Special (piezo CIP) 21,756 psi (SAMMI) 17,000 PSI, 32-20 Win (piezo CIP) 30,458 psi , 38 Special +P (SAMMI) 18,500 PSI.

Pretty much tells the story if you load to factory pressure levels.

[badgeredd]

I wouldn't do it. It would be fine if only used with black powder or VERY light smokeless loads, but if some +P loads got in there it could start to tear up the action. They were made in 38 extra long, so if there was some way you could ensure it was only used with black it would be great.

32-20 would be probably a better choice since as far as I know there's no factory hot rod ammo available for it.

-Nobade

Winchester DID load 32-20 in rifle only loadings in the early 20th century.

Edd

[Nobade]

Winchester DID load 32-20 in rifle only loadings in the early 20th century.

Edd

Yep, they did. Not many on dealer's shelves these days though.

But you are right - I tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to old guns. I feel they have been around a long time, and it is our place to preserve them for future generations whenever we can. I certainly don't disagree with you and maybe go too far, but that's just me. I do see a lot of blown up or worn out rifles in my business though, damage that could have been prevented if the owner had been more cautious.

-Nobade

[BCRider]

If by some miracle I did come across a low wall that needed a new barrel I like the idea of marking it similarly to what badgeredd suggested. If that wasn't clear enough then what else can a guy do?

[pietro]

.

I think it's OK if marked: ** .38 SPECIAL ONLY - NO +P * *



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[chaphill]

This is my first post here so I realize my QF is going to be in the dirt. I do own an original Winchester Low Wall that is chambered in 25-35. I have not owned it long. I plan on shooting it as soon as I load up some loads for it. It does appear to have been shot in the past and has not blown up yet...

[helice]

Chaphill,
I would encourage you to get in touch with someone with a QuickLoad program and determine what loads will develop what pressures. the 25-35 can generate about twice the pressures that are mentioned above. The people on this forum are amazingly wise and helpful. Make your requests and I'm certain that they will prove me right. You will be glad that you did.
Hey and P.S. Welcome aboard.

[JeffinNZ]

What about the new .17 Hornet? Not a cast cartridge but could be handy.

[chaphill]

Chaphill,
I would encourage you to get in touch with someone with a QuickLoad program and determine what loads will develop what pressures. the 25-35 can generate about twice the pressures that are mentioned above. The people on this forum are amazingly wise and helpful. Make your requests and I'm certain that they will prove me right. You will be glad that you did.
Hey and P.S. Welcome aboard.

Thanks Helice, I appreciate that feedback. I looked the program up and it really looks like I really need to buy that one myself. Despite how my post sounded I am pretty careful with my reloading. I have experienced a blow-up first hand (03-A3 with "reduced loads") and have no desire to repeat the performance. I also have the rifle in my kitchen about 1/3 disassembled and am making measurements with my calipers. I am curious where the weakness in this action exist. With the fit of the falling block, the size of the falling block and the locking taper in the face of the block I am curious...

[badgeredd]

Thanks Helice, I appreciate that feedback. I looked the program up and it really looks like I really need to buy that one myself. Despite how my post sounded I am pretty careful with my reloading. I have experienced a blow-up first hand (03-A3 with "reduced loads") and have no desire to repeat the performance. I also have the rifle in my kitchen about 1/3 disassembled and am making measurements with my calipers. I am curious where the weakness in this action exist. With the fit of the falling block, the size of the falling block and the locking taper in the face of the block I am curious...

chaphill,

Have you checked the year of manufacture on your Low Wall?

Yes some late Winchester manufacture rifles were chambered in some rather warm cartridges but many were converted later. A 25-35 cartridge with black powder has a very different pressure profile than a factory loaded smokeless powder round.

The weak spot in the Low Wall is the support of the breach block and size of same, likely that is why one finds higher pressure cartridges chambered in the high wall by Winchester. A later vintage center-fire rifle will have superior metals in its receiver. There are several intricacies when looking into the dates of manufacture and in-production changes made over the years. Things like "thin vs. thick side receivers" for one. Metallurgy changes significantly during the production history. I dearly love the action but I believe it is prudent to have all of the information one can find before making any choices in re-building/re-chambering one.

Edd

[chaphill]

chaphill,

Have you checked the year of manufacture on your Low Wall?

Edd

Well it looks like I am going to have to have a serving of crow. Thanks to everyone for raising my curiosity enough to figure out my rifle BEFORE I loaded up some ammo and fired it. What I do have is an original Winchester low wall made in 1896 so there is probably not much of a chance it is made with superior steel. The barrel and action have a very nice patina to them and the patina matches. There is clearly a stamped 25-35 on the top of the barrel at the receiver. However as I disassembled it I started noticing some things that were not exactly right. The insert in the dovetail under the barrel for the screw thread that holds the stock on is heavily modified with silver solder to move the thread out. Then I noticed the chamber looked brand new like it had just been reamed. After some searching with magnifiers and a flashlight I discovered some faint writing under the heavily stamped 25-35. It says 22 SHORT. It looks like I have some decisions to make. I can't leave it like this in the event my grandsons end up with it and want to shoot it. Just shooting reduced loads is not going to fly, I will have to change it so it will be safe again. Right now I am leaning toward test firing it with reduced loads in the 25-35 to simulate the ballistics of the 25-20 to check out the barrel to see if it is going to be accurate. Assuming it is accurate enough I will probably rechamber for 25-20. This is going to require re-locating that mounting location for that hoss of a flat spring attached to the barrel as well as a new location for the stock mount. I still really like the rifle, but it is going to take some work to fix the butcher job.

Just to make sure everyone sees the message

I do NOT have a low wall that was originally chambered in 25-35!!!![/U]