Sight help with 1885 winchester

[Loki610]

So I have this original 1885 winchester thats on loan to me from the father-in-law. Its got a new 27" custom barrel on it with 0 taper and some kind of horrible homemade tube sight! I took it out on the weekend and the first 3 shots were quite high at 100 yards with the sight all the way down. Flinched on the 4th shot (pizza box) and sight came off the rear dovetail from the recoil.
I was aiming low center of chest.
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I'm no expert when it comes to this kind of sight, but it's uncomfortably close to my eye and I'd love to replace it. I was planning on taking this out for my spring bear hunt, and for some plinking around the farm with cast bullets. Planning on shooting to a max of 200 yards so I dont think I need a reciever sight. I was hoping the sights from an old '94 would fit but the dovetails on the sights are too small, and the rear dovetail is too close to the receiver.
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Where's a decent place a canadian can get replacement sights of the proper measurement?

[GOPHER SLAYER]

That tube site is much too long. I would not shoot the rifle with that thing on the gun again. You did't mention the caliber of the rifle, not that it is relevant to your question but I would like to know and I would also like to see some close up pictures of the action.

[Loki610]

That tube site is much too long. I would not shoot the rifle with that thing on the gun again. You did't mention the caliber of the rifle, not that it is relevant to your question but I would like to know and I would also like to see some close up pictures of the action.

Sorry its in 45-70!
Best picture I have right now, I can take more tonight after work.
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[.22-10-45]

I think I would be more concerned with that dovetail cut in top of reciever.

[EDG]

Looks like you need to consider installing a Marble tang sight with something you like in the front dove tail that you feel will be suitable for hunting.
That rifle looks like it once had an old Sharps type sight installed in the worst way possible.

[badgeredd]

Planning on shooting to a max of 200 yards so I dont think I need a reciever sight. I was hoping the sights from an old '94 would fit but the dovetails on the sights are too small, and the rear dovetail is too close to the receiver.


Where's a decent place a canadian can get replacement sights of the proper measurement?

I just purchased a Marble's Bullseye sight, barrel mounted sight with an elevator. I put it on a 1885 Low Wall. Kinda odd looking, but my thought was/is that it gives one kinda a peep sight/ghost ring that affords a pretty unobstructed view. So far, I like it, but a few friends think I have odd taste so be fore warned. I haven't a clue who is available in Canada to get the sight, but you might want to give it a look. Here's a link for you.

http://www.marblearms.com/bullseyeSights.html

Edd

[Loki610]

I just purchased a Marble's Bullseye sight, barrel mounted sight with an elevator. I put it on a 1885 Low Wall. Kinda odd looking, but my thought was/is that it gives one kinda a peep sight/ghost ring that affords a pretty unobstructed view. So far, I like it, but a few friends think I have odd taste so be fore warned. I haven't a clue who is available in Canada to get the sight, but you might want to give it a look. Here's a link for you.

http://www.marblearms.com/bullseyeSights.html

Edd

Doesn't look like it would work, my rear dovetail is so close to the receiver that the elevator hangs over the action!

[Loki610]

I have measurements and more pictures for you guys. Full barrel length is 27" with 23 3/4" center to center between the barrel dovetails. Muzzle dovetail is .39 inches and back end is .5 inch (measured at widest points). Rear dovetail is only just more than 2 inches from the action. Also appears to be missing a screw from the tang.

This is engraved on the current sight mount.
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A better picture of the action
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[Loki610]

So if I go with one of the marbles sights from Brownells, is there some sort of formula for calculating front sight height?

579-009-808WB
Win. 1894, 55, 64, 1853, 1885, 1892 (original)
Mfr Part: 009808

Thats the tang sight I'm looking at, a lot more than I wanted to spend but 1/2" dovetail rear sights are impossible to find it seems!

[montana_charlie]

1/2" dovetail rear sights are impossible to find it seems!
Is that a 1/2" dovetail cut in the top of the barrel just in front of the receiver?
It certainly looks bigger than a half-inch.

Measure the full width of the cut's bottom from corner to corner ... not just the top opening.

While you are measuring, what is the distance from that lonely hole in the barrel to the center of the dovetail cut?
And ... is that hole threaded?

CM

[Loki610]

The half inch is the base measurement not the opening, never did measure to the other hole, and yes its threaded.

[montana_charlie]

The half inch is the base measurement not the opening, never did measure to the other hole, and yes its threaded.
Well, if the thread in the hole is right, and if that dovetail is actually .450", you might be set up to use a Sharps-type rear barrel sight ... a ladder sight which looks like this ...


http://www.dixiegunworks.com/images/EP0334.JPG
(pictured without the 'base'')

The (traditional) ladder sight for Winchesters is dovetailed into the barrel.
The Sharps-type has a 'base' that goes in the dovetail, but the sight itself is anchored with a screw. The base is just tapped side to side to set the windage position.

[Loki610]

Well so far I'm screwed, I cant get nothing. At least not in the next couple of months!

There is no marbles sights in stock at any of the canadian distributors and they figure it'll be months before they can get some. I'm currently trying to line up a lyman #2 tang sight but I'm having a hard time getting the measurements.

I did find a blank 3/8 oversize front sight at brownells, but its not registered for export so I cant get it. Might have to go to the local machine shop for the front.

[Loki610]

I've got on order what must be the last lyman #2 in canada from wholesale sports, they're no longer going to be a distributor.

If anyone has one of these could I get you to measure the distance center to center on the holes for me?

[montana_charlie]

If that Lyman #2 sight is made for a Winchester rifle, it should have a hole spacing of ~2.250"
But, Lyman also made a #2 for use on Marlin rifles, and it has a very short base. I don't know that hole spacing, but it looks (in pictures) to be about 1.5".

Regarding your questions concerning front sight height ...

I have a similar tang sight on a 30-30 Winchester 94 (not a Lyman, but same idea) and I use the factory front blade sight ... which is .7" above center of the (thirty caliber) bore.

You'll have to translate that into height above bottom of the dovetail cut by looking at your own barrel.

CM

[Loki610]

If that Lyman #2 sight is made for a Winchester rifle, it should have a hole spacing of ~2.250"
But, Lyman also made a #2 for use on Marlin rifles, and it has a very short base. I don't know that hole spacing, but it looks (in pictures) to be about 1.5".

Regarding your questions concerning front sight height ...

I have a similar tang sight on a 30-30 Winchester 94 (not a Lyman, but same idea) and I use the factory front blade sight ... which is .7" above center of the (thirty caliber) bore.

You'll have to translate that into height above bottom of the dovetail cut by looking at your own barrel.

CM

Should have specified that it's the sight for the 1894 I ordered. I need 2.17" hole spacing so I may have to adjust the holes in the sight base a little if it's 2.25"

[john hayslip]

There's an outfit called Jeff's outftters in Mississippi I think that sells mainly duck hunting and dog handling stuff but also has reproductions of Winchester and Stevens tang sights at a reasonable price.

[john hayslip]

I went over to the internet and they are in Missouri (got the M correct anyway) and it's jeffsoutfitters.com

[Loki610]

I'll have to call them and find out if they will ship to Canada without me having several weeks of paperwork.

[Loki610]

OK I got the lyman #2 '94 tang in the mail! Got it mounted last night and finished making a front sight. I filed down a piece of bar stock to make a dovetail, drilled a hole and threaded in a screw and cut off the head. Took it out today and shot a few rounds of cast through it at 50 yards to figure out front sight height. Now that I have height figured out I can make something a little more refined!

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[montana_charlie]

Well, that beats a poke in the eye with a homemade scope.

How much trouble did you have mounting the Lyman tang sight?

CM

[Loki610]

None at all actually! the holes were so close to what I needed it only took a few strokes with a small file to get it lined up properly. The short screw it came with fit perfectly but the tang screw was the wrong thread, so far the original tang screw seems to work fine.

[montana_charlie]

How much trouble did you have mounting the Lyman tang sight?
None at all actually! the holes were so close to what I needed it only took a few strokes with a small file to get it lined up properly.
Good!
That means you will also have no trouble mountring a tall, vernier-type, tang sight when the day comes that you REALLY want to explore the capabilities of that rifle.

Till then, press on ...

CM