Tell me what y'all think...

[Bug]

Reading a few threads on Indiana's (?) first upcoming rifle season, and their ctg restrictions got me to thinking - Dangerous for me, in itself. I hit on the idea of necking up the 7.62X39 to 35 cal.
A week or so later, a bud shows up with a Guns & Ammo article from September, 1993. The author had made up a "Mini 35" on a rebored mini 30. He claimed 35 Remington ballistics with 180 & 200gr bullets (2200 fps with 180s & Herc. 2400). I guess there isn't anything really new! I'm still real curious as to what it will do with the recent 358-210gr Group Buy.
The idea still appealed to me. I used a set of 357 Mag dies to make up a dummy round. It looks kinda neat - almost a rimless 357 Max, with a slight bottleneck.
I'v decided to go ahead with the project. I have a 93 Mauser that should fit well, or maybe a Rem SA. Both seem to hold the smaller rim well enough. Instead of expensive custom reamers and dies, I'm going to use a .35 Remington reamer run part-way in. It will slightly "improve" the case. That way I can cut-off a set of 35 Rem dies to load for it. If this thing falls on its face, I can still ream to 35 Rem, and only loose a $15 set of dies. I think it should make for a dandy deer and hog gun for under 200yds. Prolly with 180s in that venue, but who knows?
Has anyone done one of these, or something similar? Maybe a 35 PPC? 35 BR? Any thoughts or suggestions? Lastly, just how short do you think I can go on the barrel? Thanks,,, Bug.

[shooter93]

I've played around quite a bit with the 35's in different cases. Nothing wrong with what you're doing. I've switched to 338 on the 357 case and I may change this depending on how I want to seat fixed ammunition but thaat is strictly a sub sonic target round. I like the bigger bullets and one of my favorite 35's is a 35 Krag. More case capicity than a 358 Win. and lots of neck. When we built the first one several years ago there was NO information on it anywhere but it seems to be picking up. The one I have now is a Custom Sporter on a Krag action with the left side action plate coverd by the stock making it a much storonger one piece type insteand of the standard type that needs a barrel band. This rifle has a 22 inch pipe which is plenty. It's not quite finished because I'm going to hook it up to my ballistic lab soon to run a bunch of chamber and muzzle pressure tests with cast bullets then I'll finish it up. It shot 1/2 inch groups all day with J-bullets and I just rebarreled it with a custom reamer cut for a 250 grain cast bullet.

[nicholst55]

I've played around quite a bit with the 35's in different cases. Nothing wrong with what you're doing. I've switched to 338 on the 357 case and I may change this depending on how I want to seat fixed ammunition but that is strictly a sub sonic target round. I like the bigger bullets and one of my favorite 35's is a 35 Krag. More case capacity than a 358 Win. and lots of neck. When we built the first one several years ago there was NO information on it anywhere but it seems to be picking up. The one I have now is a Custom Sporter on a Krag action with the left side action plate covered by the stock making it a much stronger one piece type instead of the standard type that needs a barrel band. This rifle has a 22 inch pipe which is plenty. It's not quite finished because I'm going to hook it up to my ballistic lab soon to run a bunch of chamber and muzzle pressure tests with cast bullets then I'll finish it up. It shot 1/2 inch groups all day with J-bullets and I just rebarreled it with a custom reamer cut for a 250 grain cast bullet.

I hope you've read P.O. Ackley's work, and are aware of the serious strength limitations with a Krag action. That single locking lug can shear off with absolutely no warning - or seeming reason. It sounds like a very interesting project, but I think I'd look for a different action - perhaps a P14 Enfield.

[Buckshot]

..............Sounds like a very fun project! Take pictures! I have a 35 Rem built on a M1894 Brazilian SR action and another of these actions barreled to the 7.62x39. See below:

http://www.fototime.com/AEC40C4BAA66E93/standard.jpg

The 35 Remington

http://www.fototime.com/952D1AE654018DF/standard.jpg

The 7.62x39.

If you're going to use the 7.62x39 case, as is shown above you need to add a filler block to move the cartridge up closer to the feed ramp. Welding an extension on the nose of the ejector will also be a good idea. Otherwise the bolt will pull the casehead under the bridge and the case (when it hits the ejector) can hit the opposite side and lay there in the action.

Both actions extract the smaller caseheads okay without any extractor mods. The one on the 7.62x39 really should be extended to reach across the boltface further merely so it could be radiused to actually grip a larger portion of the rim.

...............Buckshot

[shooter93]

I used the Krag for several reasons. All my rifles are built for me and I have them on any number of actions and the Krag is just neat. It's also more than strong enough for the pressures i'm running at. I'm very familiar with Mr. Ackley but the Krag is a good action. Having it magnafluxed is alway a good idea but I do that even with 98's. It is a brittle ction but it was regularly tested with pressure rounds 40% highers than it's standard operating pressure. And I agree with Buckshot on the extractor modification for the 7.62x39 case....it makes complete sense and is certain to offer better reliability.

[Johnch]

I know a guy at the club that converted a 7.62 x 39 Ranch rifle to .35 x 39
He had to worry about the extra bolt thrust , something I dought you will have to deal with unless you load it hot

Also He had to deal with AOL , to fit the rnd in the mag
Also probely not a problem in a bolt gun

He sold the rifle after a while due to lack of interest on his part

If I was to play around making a 35 cal bolt gun
I would use one of the short 98 actions and stick to a easy ( read cheap ) round to get brass
Also a min of work on converting the action
Say probely 358 Win

John

[Scrounger]

Bolt thrust is a function of chamber pressure and area of the cartridge base; So if he loaded it to the same pressure and used the 7.62X39 case, bolt thrust was the same. I should imagine there was increased recoil though.

[Junior1942]

What's wrong with necking up the 8x57 to 35x57? All you'd need to do is rebore the barrel and clean up the chamber. Right? Wrong?

[shooter93]

I would imagine his intent is a case with the nearly perfect capicity for 100% load density at the velocity level he wants to shoot at as opposed to a bigger case and fillers. Or...maybe he just wants to fool around with an idea....Lord knows I've spent the gross national product of Ecuador on such things in my life....and enjoyed everyone

[357maximum]

Barrel length for you 35X39

I routinely get 35 rem lever action velocities out of a 357maximum in a 15 inch tubed encore with 180 to 200 grain cast.....your barrel can be as short as the feds allow, but i personally would go 18+ or so according to intended balance point. The less time the boolit is in the barrel the more accuracy potential it will posess, and it is rather evident you do not intend to hotrod things, and a long barrel is by no means neccessary on this critter........go for it.

Using powders like Vhit N-120/H- LILGUN, H-4227 under 180 to 220 grainers should prove rather fruitful in your quest I would think.

I have made similar dummy rounds up, just never ran it to fruition...keep us informed please.

[Buckshot]

I would imagine his intent is a case with the nearly perfect capicity for 100% load density at the velocity level he wants to shoot at as opposed to a bigger case and fillers. Or...maybe he just wants to fool around with an idea....Lord knows I've spent the gross national product of Ecuador on such things in my life....and enjoyed everyone

.............There was a guy at one of the Nevada Cast Lead Boolit Shoots who did exactly that. He built it on a Ruger M77 action. I forget the exact details but he wanted a 500gr lead slug at (say) 1300 fps from a repeater. He used a 45-70 case shortened to hold an exact amount of some (I forgot) powder with the slug sitting on it for 100% density.

He got exactly what he wanted. A deadly accurate rifle built around ONE LOAD, and it was used for hunting.

..............Buckshot

[shooter93]

I'm a real advocate of the "perfect" case size....it may take a few tries and I may need a number of different rifles....but...you can't have too many of those.

[Old Ironsights]

I agree with 357Max - The .357 Max is a Boss cartridge and fully fills the state requirements.

A word of caution: This is a NEW rule, and there was (and is) a small but very vocal opposition. Not too many within the ranks of the COs, but I wouldn't be caught dead with a dodgy headstamp or a mis-marked barrel - no matter what your calipers say... at least not this year.

If you are going to do somthing interesting, make sure you use a sterile barrel blank.

[nelsonted1]

A word of caution: This is a NEW rule, and there was (and is) a small but very vocal opposition. Not too many within the ranks of the COs, but I wouldn't be caught dead with a dodgy headstamp or a mis-marked barrel - no matter what your calipers say... at least not this year.

If you are going to do somthing interesting, make sure you use a sterile barrel blank.


Can you explain what the above means? I don't even know how to ask the question. WHat rule?

TED

[exblaster]

I've played around quite a bit with the 35's in different cases. Nothing wrong with what you're doing. I've switched to 338 on the 357 case and I may change this depending on how I want to seat fixed ammunition but thaat is strictly a sub sonic target round. I like the bigger bullets and one of my favorite 35's is a 35 Krag. More case capicity than a 358 Win. and lots of neck. When we built the first one several years ago there was NO information on it anywhere but it seems to be picking up. The one I have now is a Custom Sporter on a Krag action with the left side action plate coverd by the stock making it a much storonger one piece type insteand of the standard type that needs a barrel band. This rifle has a 22 inch pipe which is plenty. It's not quite finished because I'm going to hook it up to my ballistic lab soon to run a bunch of chamber and muzzle pressure tests with cast bullets then I'll finish it up. It shot 1/2 inch groups all day with J-bullets and I just rebarreled it with a custom reamer cut for a 250 grain cast bullet.

Shooter 93 if you would like some more loads for your 35 Krag you might look under the 35 WCF heading.

Exblaster

[Story]

Actually, the Russians have a 9x39mm round for special applications, like their GROZNA submachine gun.

Read all about it:
There are two 9 x 39 rounds.

(Sniper round) SP-5 (7N8); Over all Length: 55-56mm;
(varies with bullet seating depth). Bullet Weight: 16
grammes; Muzzle Velocity: 285-295mps; (No powder details
are given except Max Mean powder gas pressure which is
given as 285MPa;)

(Armour Piercing round) SP-6 (7N9); Over all Length:
55-56mm; (varies with bullet seating depth). Bullet Weight:
16 grammes; Muzzle Velocity: 285-295mps; (No powder details
are given except Max Mean powder gas pressure which is
given as 285MPa;)

Four years ago, a DPMS engineer was looking to get some dies made. Might want to drop him a line -
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:EMUjlWzNNWMJ:www.gunsnet.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-120670.html+9x39mm&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us