Shooting straight down w/powder away from primer, opinions?

[DougGuy]

I have read a lot of accounts of different types of powder liking being right up against the flash hole, read accounts of varying degrees of ignition from powder laying along the bottom side of the casing, and I'm thinking that maybe certain powders are more affected by that than others.

What would your thoughts be on shooting straight down where all the powder is against the back of the boolit and none up against the flash hole? Any dangers or cautions?

Reason I ask about this, I hunt from a climbing treestand often and actually surprised at the number of deer I have taken from leaning over the stand shooting straight down at a deer under the stand or very near the tree I am in.

Have always packed a pistol for mostly that reason and never had any issues using a SBH in .44 magnum but now I'm switching over to a Vaquero in .45 Colt, and developing loads for the type of hunting I am doing. I have some full house heavy boolit loads that probably wouldn't have any airspace at all or very little, but for a load that is less than full steam, say the lighter end of the load data for a given powder/boolit combination, is there any powder or situation I should avoid under these circumstances?

[MtGun44]

Depends on the powder, primer, case size and powder charge.

Some, like Unique and Bullseye (and many others) are nearly immune to the issue
know as "position sensitivity". Some other powders are more affected.

Well known, much tested, much discussed. Some use a fluff of Dacron fibers to keep
the powder back, some swear it will ruin your barrel.

Personally, I use small charges of Unique in the .45-70 (huge case) and such large milsurps
as .30-06, etc; and have never used any filler and have had really good results.

If you use Unique or faster type powders, even in small charges in the .45 Colt, you will
be fine. Might be able to find some powder that might exhibit significant variation, I think
most of the slower powders are more at risk, but they are likely going to fill the case with
a 3/4 throttle or better load. Lower power loads should use Unique, Bullseye, W231 or
similar powders which are very easy to ignite and are known to give good results. A favorite
in .45 Colt for moderate vel is about 8 gr of W231. A more powerful one is 9 or 10 gr of
Unique (around 1000 fps). About 7 gr of Unique is a more moderate load.

If you worry, test it. Make a group after raising the muzzle to vertical and then
slowly lower to level and fire, raise to vertical, etc. Then do a group where you lower the
muzzle to straight down, then lift carefully to level and fire. Compare the groups.

Bill

[dverna]

If you are hunting you will not be using a light load and firing "straight down" should not be an issue if you use a powder that takes up most of the case capacity. Use a slower and/or fluffier powder. Or like MG44 said used a filler. KISS.

[runfiverun]

i'd advise testing it to see.
sometimes you see quite a velocity gain and a resulting miss from the powder down situation.

[oldfart1956]

Glad to see Doug brought this up and I'll be watching this post for sure. I've got the same concerns using lighter loads in 45/70. Probably not so much of a problem with Unique (which I'll probably stay with) but reading about C.J. Sharps claymoring a T/C/ Contender fireforming 45/70 brass with light charges of 2400 convinced me not to use that.....any more. And yes...I do intend to hunt from a treestand with these light loads. I usually shoot under 20 feet away...sometimes much under. Like...spread your toes and lay the barrel between them close. I'm puddy sure I can drive a 405gr. slug through a deer at that range at 900/1000 fps. Audie..the Oldfart..

[geargnasher]

2400 and enough Dacron to keep the powder located works great. With something like 296, polyethylene shot buffer (beads or granulated) works well to keep the powder located when installed with slight compression when seating the boolit, just remember that slight compression often sends pressures up either a little or a lot depending on the situation, so back off to minimum powder charge weights and swap powder for filler until you get a safe load you like.

Gear

[DougGuy]

Wow this thread made me remember something I used to do. Years ago, they used to sell wax gas checks, and the idea was to charge a primed case with powder, then lay this sheet of red wax over the case and cookie cutter it with the case, then seat the boolit in the case. As best as I could tell, they worked and it took a lot of the effort out of cleaning the barrel too. Anybody ever use those? I bet that would work for holding the powder in place.

No these won't be light loads, but there is no reason to push a load to 1300f/s to take a deer that weighs 120lbs at less than 20yds, so yeah they will be pushed a lot slower than the full house loads I would use for hogs or bear. We have small deer here and that makes it easier on an old fart like me to tag 'em and drag 'em, but they're also tastier when they are young and smaller.

MtGun44, that just might be an interesting two groups, and a valid idea you got there too.


i'd advise testing it to see.
sometimes you see quite a velocity gain and a resulting miss from the powder down situation.

That would be the exact situation I would want to avoid, and the exact reason for this thread. Something just told me to run this one by and see what comes from it...

[Rocky Raab]

Banish any worry from your mind. Consider that any velocity you might lose is more than offset by the fact that your range to target will be about ten feet. It's a completely moot issue.

I have successfully taken a deer with a standard .38 Special 158 SWC load in the situation you describe. Five feet below my toes, DRT. (I had a rifle, but the deer walked right under me from behind, and getting the rifle around would have spooked it.)

[runfiverun]

it's not the velocity loss you worry about, quite often there is a gain.
sometimes a loss.
either way a miss is generally the outcome.