What would be a good cast bullet for a Smith & Wesson K38 Pistol

[cruisor]

Hello,

I just laid away a S&W K38 pistol and on the hunt for a good bullet to start making for it. I'm new to casting bullets for a wheel gun so any advise on sizing and determining what size a bullet should be sized would be appreciated as well. Would like to get this right from the beginning.

Thanks,

Lee

[Olevern]

what do you want to do with this load? Punch paper, shoot small/med game (squirrel, rabbit, fox, raccoon, etc)

Can't beat a wadcutter such as the Lyman 358495 for target work but probably not the best for game at possible longer range.

[rintinglen]

There are three classic designs to consider. Each has its own benefits and drawbacks.
The first is a wadcutter design. Lymans 358-495, the RCBS 38-148 WC, the Hensley& Gibbs no. 50 or the Lee Traditional 38-148 WC are all good choices. Advantages are excellent accuracy, plenty of load data, and easy scoring on targets. They work well on squirrels and other small game at medium ranges. I have a H&G 50 4 cavity that is a joy to cast with that will shoot to limit of my ability (and beyond, sigh). Drawbacks are difficulty in loading from speed loaders, slightly more difficult to cast well and poor long range accuracy and energy retention.
The second choice would be a round-nosed design. Lymans 358-311 and its clones are the top choices here. Easy loading, outstanding accuracy, ease of casting and plentiful data are its benefits. It does not score as easily on targets, and is the least effective design on game. I have a 4 cavity 358-311 that is a total joy to cast with.
The final choice would be a semi-wadcutter design. Many prefer the 358-429 by lyman or one of its clones, but I personally prefer the 358-477 type boolits, such as the RCBS 38-150 SWC (or KT, on older molds). These boolits are the best choice for hunting and long range shooting. They are also popular for self-defense loads. They tend to be less accurate at shorter ranges than the Wadcutters or Roundnose designs, albeit only marginally so.
In the 1990's I bought a Model 14-6, and tested examples of each at 25 yards from a Lee Rest. The Cramer 16H, a wadcutter design shot groups consistently under 2 inches using 3.1 grains of WW-231. The 358-311 shot very nearly the same size groups using 3.6 grains of Bullseye, while the RCBS 38-150 ran 2 1/2+ inches using the same load as the 358-311. YMMV, but extensive shooting over the years has lead me to affirm those results.

[MtGun44]

Lyman 358477 is superb in this gun. The RCBS 38-150-SWC (old version was 38-150-K) is a near clone
of the Lyman, both are really great designs. Keith 358429 is excellent and H&G 50 full wadcutter is a great
one for target work.

Bill

[wvmanchu]

I was given a Lyman 358156 when I first started casting. The SWC with the gas check it shoots great out of my old S&W .38.

[LAH]

Every boolit mentioned above is a good bullet. I shoot the Lyman 358429 & H&G #50. But your sixgun will tell you which works best. If you're going to punch paper go with the H&G #50.

[kir_kenix]

I don't think you can go wrong with any of the suggestions given above. If you are punching paper, and occasional small critters at reasonable pistol ranges, you can't go wrong with a full WC. Really any of the 148ish button-nose or DEWC are good choices.

I have been shooting a lot of really light DEWC's lately. I have 2 designs...a 70 (great for double stacking in .38 and triple stacking in .357), and one that drops 87gr. I like the fact that they are accurate, have little recoil (especially nice in J-frames), and makes your lead supply last alot longer.

[runfiverun]

358477,and 358091.

[cruisor]

What great suggestions. The full wad cutter seems best for punching paper which is something I really enjoy. Okay so it would seem that a couple of molds would keep me shooting paper and something to shoot at critters or pests like the skunks, coon and so forth. Need to look all this information try make some decisions as for a first mold and then a second.

Would anyone know the source of lyman or actually for all of the more popular molds, charts would help me to get familiar with the various molds. The suggestions here today had me in the Midway catalog looking at the recommended molds. Would be nice to have a reference chart or list to keep track of those that interest me.

Would I need to slug this pistol to decide what sizing die I'll need or is there a standard already set. I see that the 38 is sized at .358. Is this the sizing die I'll need for my Lyman sizer/lube machine?

Just one more question for kir kenix. I not familiar with the terms double stack or triple stack. Just what is this technique?

Thanks to all who responded to my questions. There's so much information to be had in this forum, pretty mind boggling for fairly new guy to casting.

Regards,

Lee

[WaywardSon]

I have tried several different designs in the 148-158 gr. range in my K-38...It will shoot most anything pretty well, but really likes a 148 gr. full wadcutter over 3.4 gr. Bullseye. Just need to experiment with different combinations in your gun. It will tell you what it likes.

[catboat]

I shoot two K38's. The best (most accurate bullet) for me is a swaged hollow base wadcutter (hbwc). I like them sized at least to .358" (.357" diameter will lead my bore). Remington makes an excellent hbwc, lubed, and is sized to about .360" It is VERY accurate (2.5 - 2.7 grains Bullseye).

For non-hbwc, I strongly recommend the Lee 358-148grain tumble lube wadcutter mold. Get the 6 cavity mold if you can find one (~$40). Cast it (they drop at about .358++" from the mold). Tumble lube it. Shoot it. No sizing needed. My Lee 358148 tumble lube bullet is almost as accurate as the hbwc, and no leading. Load it with a bit more powder, about 3.25 - 3.5 grains of Bullseye. Simple, effectived, accurate, and low cost. Doesn't get any better than that. I use this bullet in our clubs indoor pistol league, and do well with it.

I get ragged one-hole groups at 50 feet, and quarter-sized groups at 25 yards with the Lee 358148 TL wadcutter bullet, straight wheel weights.

There is a sponsor on this website which sells tumble lubed cast Lee 358148 TL wadcutter bullets for a very fair price, and with excellent quality. You can buy some and give the design a try before you get the mold.

Found the link:
http://www.carolinacastbullets.com/

No reason why you couldn't hunt small game with a wadcutter out to about 50 yards. You really don't need two bullet designs, but if you want a second, look at the Lee 158 grain semi-wadcutter (SWC) tumble lube mold, 6 cavity. Again, don't need a resizer. If you DO want to size, you can buy an inexpensive sizing die from Lee that screws into a regular loading press for something like $15. Maybe a .359" diameter (if that make it), certainly no smaller than .358" sizing-but try them unsized (right from the mold). It may work fine for you, and save some $.

[tomf52]

The Lee 105gr SWC has been the best shooting bulleet for me in my model 14. This would be for target shooting. Low charge of Bullseye combined with minimal quantity of lead (105gr) makes for economical ,accurate shooting.

[kir_kenix]

Double and triple stacked was a reference to using multiple boolits in the same case. We have some "stake shoots" here (where a 2x4 or 4x4 is placed vertically in the dirt, and its a race to cut them in half), and 3 70gr projectiles out of a .357 makes pretty short work out of a 2x4's. 4x4's generally reaquire a heavier boolit, or bigger bore.

[runfiverun]

right here at cast pics or the old buffalo mold chart.
the 358091 is a clone of the H&G @50 and has dual crimp grooves.
it also has some pretty stout loads listed in the lyman book.
the lyman book also has a lot of pictures of lyman boolits too.

[MtGun44]

Using a GC boolit in a mag loads is a waste of time, IMO, but in a .38 Spl,
it seems really to be massive overkill.

.38 Spl with plain base works just fine all the time, can't imagine going to the
trouble and cost to use GCs.

Not that they won't work, but a bit like putting high test racing fuel in
a 1938 Ford. It'll work, but not really necessary and kinda expensive.

Bill

[waco]

I have an old(1967) K-38
I recently bought a brass four cavity NOE 360477
Haven't loaded any yet but have high hopes with the classic 5 grains of unique

[awaveritt]

Not to highjack, but I have the "traditional" Lee WC (3 lube rings/crimp groove/slightly extended nose). Is this a direct copy of the H&G #50 or is there a difference in profile/dimensions?

[runfiverun]

I don't think it is an exact copy but it is 'pretty close'.
like lee's 200 swc is 'pretty close' to the H&G 68.
they look similar but the lee looks distorted.

[H.Callahan]

I agree with the WC plus SWC recommendations. For me, it is a 35863 DEWC that was originally designed for the S&W Model 52. I've found that it works well in all my 38/357s. I suspect any ~148gr WC would be similar. For the SWC, I have NOE's 360477 (clone of the 358477) that drops at about 150gr. My mold is HP'ed so I can cast solids or HP. I use the HP version to simulate the FBI load. Either solid or HP shoots real well at speeds from mild to wild -- so much so that I have not been casting a lot of the WCs lately, finding that the SWCs can pretty much handle anything from target to plinking to hunting well enough for me. Of course, I can't hit the broadside of a barn any more (age is a bitch!), so take that with a grain of salt. In my (much) younger years I used the WC exclusively for target shooting and won many matches with it and around 2.8-3.0grs of Bullseye.

If you can only swing one mold and your main, #1 focus is target shooting, I would l probably recommend some WC first. You can still hunt with it successfully if need be.

[Dale53]

I'll jump on board here and state, with more than a little competition and small game work, that a good wadcutter bullet is a GREAT choice for the .38 Special. As long as you keep your shots at fifty yards or under you'll be well served. I use solid base cast wadcutters, mostly the H&G #50 these days but also have the H&G #251 (a dbl ended wadcutter). A good wadcutter ahead of a healthy charge of Bullseye or equivalent will also serve better than most for self defense issues as well as dandy feral dog protection (again, as long as you limit your shots to fifty yards and under).

E.H. Harris (Ed Harris) has done extensive testing with ballistic media on the full charge wadcutter as a self defense load. It is stellar with that large, nearly full bore meplat with excellent penetration as well as a large, permanent wound track. It's only shortcoming as a self defense load is that it doesn't work particularly well for fast reloads. However, it's not much worse than a SWC in that regard. I can live with that...

You'll find that for target work, 3.2-3.5 grs of Bullseye (or equivalent) work better than the traditional 2.7 grs with hollow base wadcutters. If you want better measuring and somewhat cleaner burning, Hodgdon's Titegroup works very well for me and is my current "standard" for the .38 Special and .45 ACP/.45 Auto Rim.

I have a Star lubricator/sizer so I prefer conventionally lubed bulets. However, if you don't have a lube/sizer then you'll find that Recluse's 45/45/10 tumble lube formula and method works pretty dern well.

Just a thought or two...

Dale53

[Green Frog]

If I could only have one bullet mould for my 38 Spl (or 357 Mag, for that matter) it would have to be the old Lyman 537156. With gas checks it could be loaded hot, otherwise I'd shoot it without them. BTW, Skeeter cooked up a load for it to use in 357s by taking 38 Spl brass and loading them hot, then seating the bullet out in the first grease groove. This bullet shoots equally well mild or hot. Yep, if I only had 1 bullet mould... :roll:

Froggie

[cruisor]

What a bunch of information to digest.

I'd still like to hear about sizing the bullet and if I should plug the barrel to determine if something other than .358 would be required to make accurate bullet for a wheel gun.

Thanks again,

Lee

[MT Gianni]

If there is an innaccurate lead load with a K-38 I would suspect something is wrong with the gun or shooter.

[LAH]

What a bunch of information to digest.

I'd still like to hear about sizing the bullet and if I should plug the barrel to determine if something other than .358 would be required to make accurate bullet for a wheel gun.

Thanks again,

Lee

You can lube a "barrel sinker" & drive it down the barrel. This is a good way to slug a barrel. Then measure the groove diameter. I would also check the cylinder throat diameter. There are different thoughts on this. Myself I size the bullet to slip fit the cylinder throat.

[fritzy1911]

I have a 14-4 w/8.375" bl. I've owned It for about 28 years. I just got back into reloading, And cast my first boolits today in more than 25 years. It went alot better than I expected. The throats on my revolver avg. .3573" and the groove dim. is .357" I use a RCBS .357" sizing/lube die in my Lyman 4500. the boolit comes out at. 3577" So I've got .0003" over bore We'll see how It go's tomorrow. I'm useing Lyman #2 alloy. An RCBS 150gr. swc mould & HS-6 powder. It sure feels good to be back casting & reloading.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i225/fritzy1911/DSCN0541_zps1138224c.jpg (http://s73.photobucket.com/user/fritzy1911/media/DSCN0541_zps1138224c.jpg.html)
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i225/fritzy1911/DSCN0515_zps9a1d989e.jpg (http://s73.photobucket.com/user/fritzy1911/media/DSCN0515_zps9a1d989e.jpg.html)

[cruisor]

I can't wait to get your report!!

Thanks,

Lee

[Dale53]

Fritzy1911;
Welcome back to the fold. Those bullets look like you know what you are doing!

The K-38 is one of the old time greats. I have one and treasure it:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/DalesPistolsRevolvers5Selects-0189.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/DalesPistolsRevolvers5Selects-0189.jpg.html)

Here is my current favorite bullet for the .38 (H&G #50 wadcutter):

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/HG50BB-1402_900x1200.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/HG50BB-1402_900x1200.jpg.html)

I size them at .358" and lube them with Lars White Label Carnauba Red.

Dale53

[LAH]

I have a 14-4 w/8.375" bl. I've owned It for about 28 years. I just got back into reloading, And cast my first boolits today in more than 25 years. It went alot better than I expected. The throats on my revolver avg. .3573" and the groove dim. is .357" I use a RCBS .357" sizing/lube die in my Lyman 4500. the boolit comes out at. 3577" So I've got .0003" over bore We'll see how It go's tomorrow. I'm useing Lyman #2 alloy. An RCBS 150gr. swc mould & HS-6 powder. It sure feels good to be back casting & reloading.

You did good.

[dualsport]

The most accurate boolit in my K38 is the Lee 358-125 RF tumble lubed as cast, ww/pb 50/50. Never measured my grooves in a Smith.

[LAH]

Dale I love your boolit pictures.

[Dale53]

LAH;
Thanks for the kind words, LAH.

Photography is my second passion...[smilie=w:

Dale53

[LAH]

Dale was it you who stated the H&G #50 shot better with only the rear groove lubed?

[kir_kenix]

Dale was it you who stated the H&G #50 shot better with only the rear groove lubed?

I think alot of people have experienced this. I lube just the bottom lube groove in alot of DEWC, WC, and SWC's. You really don't need all of that lube at most of the target velocities we shoot our .38's at. If are you really going to push the .38's, or load them in .357's to those velocities, its probably better that you start with all of the lube grooves filled, then work your way down one groove at a time. I've found that 2 grooves filled in the 148gr Saeco is plenty for .357 velocities, and shoots better then filling all of them.

[Dale53]

Most of these bullets were designed when the lube quality, to be charitable, was "lame". When E.H. Harrison, of the NRA developed NRA 50/50 (Alox/Beeswax) it was a quantum leap forward in lube quality. It was discovered, further, by E.H. that one lube groove was not only sufficient, but superior. These were extensive machine rest tests.

I don't hold myself in the same class with E.H. but my independent Ransom Rest tests showed the same results. It turns out, that there can be such a thing as "too much of a good thing" when you use high quality lubes.

FWIW
Dale53

[Lloyd Smale]

im going to give a couple more off the wall suggestions. Ive owned at least a half a dozen k frames through the years and theres two bullets that have really stood out for accuracy for me and they are the lee 105swc and the lee 150rf. Im not usually a big fan of lee molds but those two bullet designs just plain shoot. As a matter of fact a couple of those k frames wouldnt shot much of anything less then 2 inchs at 2 yards and shot the 105 into an inch. Try either of them with about 3-4 grains of bullseye. Ive shot the 105 sized to 358 and unsized and tumble lubed and it shot just as well both ways.

[LAH]

Thanks Dale.

[fecmech]

From a pure accuracy standpoint I've found the 9MM truncated cone designs of Lee(121 TC),Lyman(356402) and RCBS(124CN) to be the most accurate bullets in my K-38 and Ruger GP. The Lee and RCBS versions will average less than 2"@50 yds. I'm not talking a "wallet" group but an average of at least 5 six shot groups.
The Lee will drop from my molds at .358 the RCBS needs to be "Beagled" to get .358 but it still shoots very well. I use them in Hunters Pistol silhouette for everything but the Ram due to their light weight.

[ddixie884]

My first .38 mold was an older 358477. I used it for everything in .38s and .357s. Cast of WWs and loaded over 5gr Unique in a .38spl it is hard to beat. I never shot bullseye competition, those that did swear by wadcutters and Bullseye powder.........

[azrednek]

"What would be a good cast bullet for a Smith & Wesson K38 Pistol"

Don't get me wrong as I'm being polite. Your question is like asking Ford or Chevy, Coke or Pepsi!! There are simply many to choose from. If I'm not mistaken I believe there are more bullet molds for 38/357 offered than any other caliber. I can assure you that if you're new to casting you wont be satisfied until you have tried several different types.

Speaking economically to stretch your lead supply something in the 105 gr range is great. For shot to shot accuracy, my best results are in the 148-158gr range. For a good all-around plinker I like the Lee 125RNF.

Once you're hooked on casting. Don't pass up a bargain on any 357/38 mold. Try as many as you can. Without knowing your specific need or use it is nearly impossible to say which one is best. I say the best advice, try as many as you can. Easy to swap or sell a mold if you want to try another. If the budget allows it simply hoard as many as you can allowing you to select the best for what ever need may arise. Be it plinking, paper punching, tin can killing, self defense, critters or pests.

[cruisor]

Thanks for the advise. I can see I'm going to have alot of fun shooting this pistol and loading for it. I think I like the tinkering is great fun and the casting just adds another element to it!!