Ruger Flattop Blackhawks .44 Magnum--50th Anniversary Edition

[Southern Shooter]

My two sons have these Flattop Blackhawks in 6 1/2" barrels. They are asking about handloading some heavy bullets for backcounty protection in upper Montana and Idaho areas. I have been thinking about using the Lee C430-310-RF to cast some bullets.
67680

My question is this:

How hot can/should I take these bullets with these guns? I don't want to damage these flattops with loads that are too rough. But, I don't want to under load this cast boolit, either. What loads would ya'll charge these bullets up with these guns?

Thanks

[jasent]

My advice would be to work up a load in there guns and see what the guns like. My superbh likes 250gn frn with 11gn of longshot. Not sure what a start load would be for that size boolit

[Trey45]

As long as you stay within normal loading perimeters you're not going to have problems with the strength of those guns. Those guns are built plenty tough for 44 mag, full charge 44 mag. 21gr H110 with a mag primer and you're golden. That's a full charge 44 mag load. Maybe 1250-1300fps.

[runfiverun]

any load data from a book will be fine.
they sell nice Hogue grips for the blackhawks they seem to make recoil a little easier to tolerate from those miniature handles.

[Kull]

With the Flattop's I wouldn't go full Ruger only loads.

Edit: Forget what I said. At first I thought the 44 Flattops were like the 45's where they're built on a smaller frame. I guess that's not the case.

[MtGun44]

I think these are built on the regular BH frame, not the SuperBH, so I think that the
"Ruger only" .44 mag loads might be a bit much for these guns.

Bill

[dmize]

They are not SBH's. They are built on the new Flattop frames.
Load normal 44 mag book loads but do not play with "Ruger Only" loads.
And as others have said,I am not sure about that heavy of a boolit.

[Tatume]

I have all of the major reloading manuals, and not one of them as any "Ruger only" 44 Rem Mag loads. What are you guys talking about?

[Rodfac]

I'm not a fan of the super heavy .44 caliber bullets, cast or otherwise. My Flat Top 50th likes Keith's old 245 gr LSWC just fine, will shoot it into nice tight 1-1/4" clusters at 25 yds, and at 1250 fps, it's no slouch for most critters in the lower 48.

But if it's big bears your son's are worried about, any handgun is underpowered in my opinion, and especially so a single action. But for packing out elk quarters at dusk in the timber line, you've got few choices. I've had the willies up there myself and I was wearing a 6" S&W .44 magnum. I'd much have preferred my .35 Whelen, but the weight too much and the handiness with a big packboard on was unmanageable. A double action Smith, might give them a 2nd shot that a single action would deny.....that said, here are some numbers from Hodgen's loading data site.

A quick check gave the following for a "325 gr BtB LFN GC, seated to 1.730 COAL:

Winchester 296: 20.0 gr gave 1264 fps for 30,800 Cup
Winchester 296: 22.0 gr gave 1368 fps for 38,100 Cup

Pretty good velocity for a heavy wt. slug...though recoil in any gun is going to be heroic to say the least and especially so if your boys are still using the "cheese grater" grips standard on the .44 50th Flat top.

Good luck in your quest. Rod

[Von Dingo]

The 50 Anniversary flattop .44 mags have the same size frame and cylinder as the Super Blackhawk. The difference is the fact that the rear sight "ears" aren't there, and the size of the gripframe (XR-3, not the XR-3RED).

Other than the Super Redhawk, never heard of any Ruger Only .44 Mag loads, and these weren't from any component companies.

[MtGun44]

Lots of data out there that is marked "Ruger only" for .44 mag and .45 LC especially. The new
Vaqueros and .44 flat top anniv. specials are not for these loads, they use "normal loads"

Bill

[45 2.1]

Lots of data out there that is marked "Ruger only" for .44 mag and .45 LC especially. The new
Vaqueros and .44 flat top anniv. specials are not for these loads, they use "normal loads"

Bill

Bill, whats the deal on the 44 flat top anniversary specials? They look to be built on the standard blackhawk frame. Both Mag and Special.

[Tatume]

Lots of data out there that is marked "Ruger only" for .44 mag and .45 LC especially. The new
Vaqueros and .44 flat top anniv. specials are not for these loads, they use "normal loads"

Bill

Bill,

Would you cite some please?

Thanks, Tom

[jonp]

I"ve got a couple of manuals that have a section for "Ruger and T/C Contender Data Only" in them. Not sure why this is a mystery. The flattop is not as strong as a regular Blackhawk and I would not push it that hard. Saying that, full 44Mag loads are fairly stout in these and a set of Hogue grips if you are going to shoot them on a regular basis would be something you will appreciate

[44 mag nut]

I have the Lee 310 mold, my SRH like it better then my Black hawks and SBH. I find for me, that in the shorter cylinder I have to seat it in the upper crimp groove. It shoots okay, I have had better luck with the the Ranch Dog 432-265 in the Black hawks and SBH. I have seen one of the custom mold makers have them in TL and regular lube. I have had friends take deer with it out to 100 yards. I have taken deer within 50 to 75 yards in Northern Idaho.

[Jared]

As is said by a few members above, there is NO difference in strength between a 50th anniversary flattop .44 Magnum and a New Model Super Blackhawk. The Frame and Cylinder are the same size between the two models. The only difference is the 50th anniversary has the top strap is cut for the Micro sight used in the original Flattops, and a steel XR3 gripframe.

ALL factory Ruger .44 Magnums are built on the large frame both Old and New model. Any load listed in a manual is suitable for your revolver, assuming you work up to it as you should always do.

[Dennis Eugene]

I have yet to see any manual citeing "Ruger Only" loads for the .44 magnum, can any body out there show me one? Dennis

[David LaPell]

I had one of these a couple years back or so and it really liked the old standby, Lyman's #429421 and a decent dose of Unique but nothing super hot. It shot very well and accurately. I remember the first thing I did though was take off the checkered plastic grips as those things were like sandpaper in my hand. I eventually put on a nice set of spalted maple grips and recoil was not an issue.

[MtGun44]

Far from home and loading manuals now, cannot point to specifics but the
books with "Ruger only" loads ARE there. PM me in a week when I will be home
and I will do some searching if you really want this info.

I have not measured the frames but here is what I BELIVE to be the case. I can
get out a SBH and the .44 flat top and measure next week when I get home. Here is
what I think is correct. I always allow for the possibility of being wrong, esp when
going on memory and cannot directly check - like now.

The 50th Anniversary .44 has the basic BH frame size, but no ears on rear sight and the
older (smaller) grip frame, which is close to the Colt SAA. Keith called the SBH the "Dragoon grip", and
I suspect that this is probably correct or nearly correct that the grip was more like the Dragoon
or the 1860 Army grip frame. Personally, I like the 1860 Army grip MUCH more than the
SAA grip, which is almost too small for my hands. I bought a .44 flat top 50th Ann model
and have shot it a bit, but not much and don't really think the small grip is an improvement.

I have a .45 conv BH and can compare. It is possible that the BH and SBH frames are the
same and only the grip frame makes it seem larger. Have never sat down and actually
measured them.

Definitely the New Vaquero is NOT the same size as the BH, smaller gun to make it match
up with the SAA for SASS matches is the way I understand it.

Bill

[RayinNH]

I just checked through seven manuals and found only two instances with different .44 mag. loading data. None of them where listed as Ruger only data. The Lyman 48th has a section for "TC Contender and Encore" only. The Hodgdon 26th has a .44 Mag. data section for "rifle only loads".

The .45 Colt on the other hand, most manuals had a regular load section and then data listed as for "Ruger and TC only.

I hope this clears things up a bit...Ray

[Tatume]

Hi Ray,

If you dig a little deeper, I think you will find the loads differ in regards to overall length or optimal powder choice. They will be within SAAMI spec for pressure, and will be safe to shoot in any 44 Magnum revolver that will chamber them. As you stated, there are no "Ruger only" 44 Magnum loads.

Most manuals will have a section on Ruger-only 45 Colt loads, and I think this is the source of the confusion. These loads exceed SAAMI spec for pressure, and are not safe to shoot in revolvers of lesser strength (although there are plenty of other revolvers that are strong enough to handle them, such as Freedom Arms and BFR).

Take care, Tom

[Larry Gibson]

My 50th Aniversary .44 Magnum Ruger digests standard 44 Magnum loads up to the SAAMI MAP (no real sense in going above that). As stated the frame size is the same as the BH with only difference being no ears for the rear sight. I regularly shoot the classic Keith load of 22 gr 2400 under the RCBS 44-250-K cast bullet and the 270 gr 429244 or 429640HP over the max H110 load. The FTBH handles them with ease and accuracy.

Larry Gibson

[Dale53]

When Frank Siefer and I designed the Lee C430-310-RF I worked up loads (loaded long using the crimp groove closest to the base) for my Model 29 and my Ruger Red Hawk. I settled on a max load of 21.5 grs of H110 or 296. Keep in mind that these loads were not pressure tested but were safe in my revolvers (as well as a further number of revolvers that tried these loads).

I had a Ruger .44 Mag 50th Anniversary just long enough to test fire it with the Mihec version of the H&G #503 (250 gr Keith). Then I presented it to my son-in-law. He is a serious hunter (lives in SLC., UT) and will give it a proper workout. I frankly didn't shoot the Lee bullet in it so cannot speak of the cylinder length.

At any rate, the 310 gr bullet is a dandy. I killed the first deer that was taken with that bullet (the moulds were not yet in circulation) and it just happened to be a nice, ten point Ohio Whitetail. And yes, it tasted WONDERFUL!

Dale53

[MtGun44]

Larry,

Is the SBH and BH (and .44 FT) the same cyl diam and main frame size? I am sure that
the grip frames are not the same, but not totally sure about the main frame
and cyl.

Very far from the gun safe now, cannot check my own examples.

Bill

[Larry Gibson]

I believe the NM SBH and the NM BH frames and cylinders for the .44 are the same size with the main difference being the grip frame and barrel lengths(?). Since I've not handled a SBH in some years I will have to defer to someone who knows the answer for sure.

Larry Gibson

[Lloyd Smale]

thats the correct answer. the aniversary 44mags are on the large frame not the small and with a large frame it doesnt matter if its a super, a flatop or a vaquero as there all equal in strenght. I think the misunderstanding is comming from guys who are getting the small frame (357/44spec/45 colt) guns with the large frame 44 mag guns.
The 50 Anniversary flattop .44 mags have the same size frame and cylinder as the Super Blackhawk. The difference is the fact that the rear sight "ears" aren't there, and the size of the gripframe (XR-3, not the XR-3RED).

Other than the Super Redhawk, never heard of any Ruger Only .44 Mag loads, and these weren't from any component companies.

[Kull]

Bill is your 45 convertible BH a Flattop?

I'm curious to know how a 44 Flattop compares to a 45 Flattop. I'm assuming at the moment that the 44 is on the large frame and the 45 is on the mid frame.

[MtGun44]

Flat tops were the very first design built by Bill Ruger as a centerfire single action in .44 Mag.
AFAIK there were no others without the ears on the frame that protect the adjustable rear
sight - this lack of ears is what makes it a flat top. At this point, the only question for me is
whether the actual frame is smaller on the .44 FT compared to the .44 Super BlackHawk (SBH).
I am 99% sure the grip frame is larger on the SBH and I THINK the frame is bigger, too, but
I will measure and compare.

Home now, can check tomorrow.

Bill

[Lloyd Smale]

frame on the flattop 44mags is the same as the supers. Only differnce is no ears and the micro sight

[ironhead7544]

I have seen some loads marked for Ruger Redhawk Only. These are generally too long to fit in the SBH cylinder. They are also loaded too hot for the SBH.

Your bullets will work fine in the SBHs with the right load. I would use WW296/H110 for about 1200 fps. The only real problem is that the heavy bullets will shoot high. Real close up it wont make much difference. The recoil will be a bit brisk with the small grips. My 5 and 1/2 inch SBH has the Houge grips and they help control the recoil.

Make sure they can handle the recoil for quick follow up shots. I had a 4 and 5/8 inch old model Vaquero in 44 Mag and that load was brutal in it.

[kweidner]

I have all of the major reloading manuals, and not one of them as any "Ruger only" 44 Rem Mag loads. What are you guys talking about?


Sierra shows single action and ruger only IIRC

[Tatume]

Sierra shows single action and ruger only IIRC

Sierra does not show Ruger only 44 Magnum loads. The Sierra manual has single action and Ruger only 45 Colt loads.

Take care, Tom