Four 50lb smelters

[blikseme300]

Some time ago I posted a request for somebody to be a partner in making 4 smelters with the donor receiving one unit, one going as a fund raiser for Ken, one unit to a newbie caster and the last one for myself. What I requested was the supply of 4 tubes of 6"OD by 6"long. Member Liberty'sSon sent me these tubes and the process starts and I will document it here. The heater bands are 1600W units and the pots should handle 50lbs of alloy with ease. Today I cut the discs that will form the floor of the pots. See the pics and ask away if you want.

[Liberty'sSon]

Hey! I recognize that tubing. :popcorn:

[Vindicated]

Any intention of making more to sell? Those look really nice.

[jeepyj]

Wow nice start... Lots of crafty folks around here! Castboolits site is THE place to hang out.
Jeepyj

[Love Life]

Now that is cool!! An electric smelter might actually get me to smelt!!

[lup]

Can you document some if the parts you used? Are you just welding a bottom to the tubing or is there more to it?

[Southern Son]

Can you document some if the parts you used? Are you just welding a bottom to the tubing or is there more to it?

+1
Where did you get the stuff, how much did it cost. Your fans hunger for more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[blikseme300]

Can you document some if the parts you used? Are you just welding a bottom to the tubing or is there more to it?

I will document the parts and construction this weekend. As weird as this may sound to some people we have had 3-digit temperatures here already. A front blew through yesterday and tomorrow will be cool enough for construction to start.

[Bren R.]

I will document the parts and construction this weekend. As weird as this may sound to some people we have had 3-digit temperatures here already. A front blew through yesterday and tomorrow will be cool enough for construction to start.

I can't tell if you're complaining or bragging! :razz:

Right around 32F here right now.

Bren R.

[blikseme300]

I can't tell if you're complaining or bragging! :razz:

Right around 32F here right now.

Bren R.

Complaining, the summers are brutal here so any cooler weather is welcome. I must say that the few times I have been in the frozen northern parts of this country were not pleasant either so understand where you are coming from. The weather here forces you to plan your activities. Welding is done out doors so cool weather helps as the safety gear gets awfully uncomfortable in the heat.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Tagged for updates. This is awesome. I would love to build a 100# casting furnace. That would keep me casting all day :rolleyes::rolleyes::-|

[blikseme300]

It's alive! The first of the 4 units cast some boolits this evening. I'll do a proper complete post detailing the build tomorrow. The first unit is still naked and the 1600W really heats you up when close and personal. Tomorrow evening I will dress it with Kaowool and sheet metal.
68121
Took about an hour from many ingots to stable temperature of 720*.
68122
68123
68124
68125

[Liberty'sSon]

Just a wild guess, but are those top boolits the 311 247 Lee for 300 BLK subsonic?
My mould for that is still on BO but that's on that I definitely plan on casting with that sweet pot you are building. [smilie=w:

[Darkh2odiver]

Subscribing. Great project!!

[alrighty]

It is amazing what can be made , that looks great!

[jmsj]

WOW!!
I have been wanting to build a 40# pot for myself but was not sure about all the details.
I'm looking forward to your build posts
jmsj

[blikseme300]

Just a wild guess, but are those top boolits the 311 247 Lee for 300 BLK subsonic?
My mould for that is still on BO but that's on that I definitely plan on casting with that sweet pot you are building. [smilie=w:

It is actually the TL309-230-5R but also have the 247gn mold on BO. I don't yet have a Blackout with a can but it is in the pipe line. Currently have 2 16" AR-15's in 300blk and the C312-155-2R boolits as well as the 230gn work well. The 155gn boolit is my favorite and I have used more than 2k in the past year alone plinking. Work is sure interfering with getting this project done. The first pot is complete and works as expected and I will get your unit completed by this coming weekend and get it out next week.

[blikseme300]

WOW!! That would be sweet for my H&G 8 and 10 cavity moulds :)

I have not yet tested it with my H&G 8 cavity 230gn .45 but during my testing I did use a 265gn .44 6-banger mold. The mold actually overheated somewhat and I needed to slow my casting cadence to suit. All of the boolits in the pics above are from the smelter function testing. From the time the unit was turned on till casting complete was just more than 2 hours and 2x 6-banger and 2x dual cavity molds used for testing. The only pauses were to pre-heat molds when switching. Until you have used a large volume PID controlled smelter you have been merely crawling along, IMHO.

[skeettx]

Can not tell from the photos, how are you getting
the lead out of the pot?
Mike
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/MVC-027S19.JPG

[L1A1Rocker]

looking forward to a full write up. Looks really good!

[Liberty'sSon]

No worries, I know how work can get in the way of things. I still have to get my electrician by to install 220 in my garage.

[imashooter2]

Can not tell from the photos, how are you getting
the lead out of the pot?
Mike


That sure looks like a bottom pour valve on the front edge of the pot to me...

[blikseme300]

68505

Material used for the pouring valve. Stainless steel from scraps bin.

68506
68507

Views of the valve. No special machining needed as the seat is simply the angle left by the drill bit. The spout end was smoothed using a file while rotating slowly in the lathe.

68508

Needle and seat pieces. No precision work either and the needle end smoothed with a file while rotating in mini lathe.

68509

Bottom plates and pour valve components prior to welding

68510

This is what lurks under the sheet metal of the heater bands. Rough guess is that the heater element is about 36" long.

68511

68512

68513

68514

Multiple views of the assembled metal parts of the smelter. Continued in the next post...

[blikseme300]

68516

Another view.

68517

Heater band fitted.

68518

Kaowool fitted and getting ready for another casting session. The bottom and sides are insulated and this adds to the efficiency of the unit and helps to keep you from the high heat being radiated. This is especially helpful if you live in a warm part of the country such as here in deep South Texas. If anybody here needs some kaowool PM me as I have a ready source of free off-cuts.

68519

My setup including the PID controller. The PID is a big part of the magic.

68520

The mold platform is oak and the height is adjusted by moving the pinch pair of nuts up or down the all-thread screwed into the bottom of the oak. I'll do more pics when I make the next ones.

68521

View of the cooled off smelter contents. I use wood shavings only for all fluxing. I leave the ash & crud in the pot and only clean it out when it becomes about 1/2" thick. Keeping the air away from the melt prevent oxidation as well as retaining some heat.

I'll keep adding pics and information here and at some point will do another write up on my personal website on how this project was done. Please keep the comments and/or questions coming.

[TheCelt]

Outstanding project!!!!! if you EVER make some for sale, please put me on the list!!!!

[Southern Son]

Who did you get the heating element from and do you have the model number? I would love to make one of these and even though I am Down Under, this information could be very helpful. It is a cracking good setup you have there. I have the old Lee drip-o-matic. Since I got a Frozone PID, my only complaint about the set up is how quickly the lead goes away. 50lb would be about right.

[blikseme300]

Who did you get the heating element from and do you have the model number? I would love to make one of these and even though I am Down Under, this information could be very helpful. It is a cracking good setup you have there. I have the old Lee drip-o-matic. Since I got a Frozone PID, my only complaint about the set up is how quickly the lead goes away. 50lb would be about right.

I got the 4 heaters of evilbay here in the US. New prices are exorbitant and typically 10 times more than the surplus units. The gotcha as I found out is to make sure that you can get a tube around which the heater band will fit. There are other options as well such as bendable elements or ceramic bands. The pot diameter is less critical than with rigid bands. What voltages do you have in home down under and do you pay import duties on items from the US? I have received a number of requests for parts and elements and may consider getting some more heater bands and offering them here.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Pretty neat project. This is somethng that most people wouldn't even attempt. It looks like you pulled it off quite nicely!

Randy

[quasi]

1600 Watts would take a while to melt 50 lb's of lead, I think 3000 watts would work better for my uses. If I build it , I will start a thread.

[Southern Son]

I got the 4 heaters of evilbay here in the US. New prices are exorbitant and typically 10 times more than the surplus units. The gotcha as I found out is to make sure that you can get a tube around which the heater band will fit. There are other options as well such as bendable elements or ceramic bands. The pot diameter is less critical than with rigid bands. What voltages do you have in home down under and do you pay import duties on items from the US? I have received a number of requests for parts and elements and may consider getting some more heater bands and offering them here.

Mate, Import Duties ain't really a problem for one person bringing in something small like this. A motorbike or a car, high dollar stuff, yes, but an element, boolit mould, and such, no worries. On the voltage side, we run 240 volts. 10amp power points are normal, but you can get a Sparky to put a 15amp power point in if you need it (I got 2 in my shed for my welder). Let me know if you are going to start selling these things and they can be wired for 240 volts. Getting some 6 inch pipe should be easier than getting the elements here in Oz.

[blikseme300]

1600 Watts would take a while to melt 50 lb's of lead, I think 3000 watts would work better for my uses. If I build it , I will start a thread.

These units take about 45 minutes to stabilize at 700*. Higher wattage could help but they are very scarce on the auction sites and as cost is a consideration a little longer wait is of little concern. My 70lb units are 2400W and they save about 10 minutes over the 50's at 1600W. If I was very pressed for time I would not be casting and reloading so it is of no consequence to me.

[blikseme300]

Mate, Import Duties ain't really a problem for one person bringing in something small like this. A motorbike or a car, high dollar stuff, yes, but an element, boolit mould, and such, no worries. On the voltage side, we run 240 volts. 10amp power points are normal, but you can get a Sparky to put a 15amp power point in if you need it (I got 2 in my shed for my welder). Let me know if you are going to start selling these things and they can be wired for 240 volts. Getting some 6 inch pipe should be easier than getting the elements here in Oz.

I have started looking for more heater bands and will let you know what I find. I will offer any units at my landed cost to members here.

[blikseme300]

Pretty neat project. This is somethng that most people wouldn't even attempt. It looks like you pulled it off quite nicely!

Randy

Thanks Randy. The good thing is that those of us that cast and reload are already a select group and in this group there are individuals who can help make things for others. The little we charge for items we make will never make us wealthy as it is typically a token and often does not cover our cost. We do this because we like doing things and like to share.

[jmsj]

blikseme300,
I have been following this thread with great interest. I even started cruising evilbay for elements and realised I wasn't sure what exactly I needed. I have access to 220V and was thinking I would like to build one in 220V.
I really like your design and I have been thinking about building a larger bottom pour smelter for casting. I have built a larger bottom pour smelter for smelting my raw lead but it is more for smelting and is propane fired. Here is a link to it:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?84710-foot-pedal-operated-smelter-second-try&highlight=foot+operated+smelter
I think I can handle the mechanical part of the build but am unsure about which heater bands I need. Any advice you could give me would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, jmsj

[TenTea]

Nice Design!

Having the pour valve *needle & seat* confined to an outside edge is very helpful. If only the little pots would have that design feature it would offer more ingot flexibility, etc.

Keep up the good work!

[blikseme300]

blikseme300,
I have been following this thread with great interest. I even started cruising evilbay for elements and realised I wasn't sure what exactly I needed. I have access to 220V and was thinking I would like to build one in 220V.
I really like your design and I have been thinking about building a larger bottom pour smelter for casting. I have built a larger bottom pour smelter for smelting my raw lead but it is more for smelting and is propane fired. Here is a link to it:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?84710-foot-pedal-operated-smelter-second-try&highlight=foot+operated+smelter
I think I can handle the mechanical part of the build but am unsure about which heater bands I need. Any advice you could give me would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, jmsj

jmsj, the things I look out for:

1. Voltage 120-240V - there are bands out there that are for voltages higher than 240V and are typically not suitable as homes don't have the higher voltages available - 480V are quite common and unsuited.
2. Diameter - 6-8" are the range I look out for as stated in the reason below.
3. Height - 4-6" high as the volume/weight target needs to be 50-70lbs to be worthwhile.
4. Type - rigid or flexible. The metal chassis bands and mica bands are rigid so tube of the correct diameter is required. I have not used the ceramic insulated bands but they will probably work.
5. Wattage - I have found through a number of builds that 30-35W/Lb heating work well. (Lead is about 2.44 cubic inch/lb so do the math) Higher wattage/lb bands are scare and cost much more.
6. Cost - do your research as some sellers on the auction sites are nuts while others are cheap-to-reasonable. I typically pay between $10-30 per band which is about 10% of new pricing. Watch out for being gouged by high shipping costs.

[jmsj]

blikseme300,
Thanks for the info it is really helpful.
I looked last night for one like you have described but couldn't find one quite right on evilbay. I would appreciate it if you could drop me a line if you find more of these bands.
Thanks, jmsj

[Salmon-boy]

Ok, I've been a fan since I saw the original MOAM post.. This is awesome!

Thanks for the build details! I almost got a 480V band and I'll have to keep an eye out for a 240v band.

Thanks again!
Chuck.

[gandydancer]

super build. I want one. but all I can make is a little ear wax. you talk about no talent. that would be me. GD :veryconfu :shock: [smilie=s:

[quasi]

heater bands are not the only type of heater that can work on an electric furnace. A bent or bendable element is used on most commercial pots.

[Liberty'sSon]

How's the project coming along?

[blikseme300]

How's the project coming along?

My noob caster buddy and I will be assembling the other 3 this afternoon. Pics to follow this evening.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Great build and thread, looking forward to the Ken benefit auction.

[blikseme300]

We got rained out this weekend as I weld outside only. We did do the prep work we could and will be getting this done soon. Here is an example of what it is capable of in little more than 1 hour of casting. Mold is a Lee 6-banger .401-175-TC. Approx 25lbs.
70547

[alrighty]

Great build and thread, looking forward to the Ken benefit auction.
I agree and the auction should do very well.

[plinky56]

Neat setup!

[jroc]

blikseme300
Do you have any more pics of putting the kaowool on the pot. Did you just bring the kaowool up to the junction box. Also did you but up to the junction box with your outer cover or did you go right over it and all the way around. Just curious

[jroc]

blikseme300
Also how heavy of a wire are you using to supply juice. What kind of plug? Do you use something like an electric dryer receptacle to plug into.

[armedmoose]

looks fantastic.... i've been saving for a promelt or the new lyman pot, would love a purchase option.

[Liberty'sSon]

Just checking in to see how it's going .

[bsgp8ntball]

very nice! interested to see more!

[Springfield]

quasi: My Magma 40 pound pot is 1500 watts and it will melt a full pot in about half an hour. 3000 watts would need some special house wiring, not worth the trouble in my opinion.

[quasi]

quasi: My Magma 40 pound pot is 1500 watts and it will melt a full pot in about half an hour. 3000 watts would need some special house wiring, not worth the trouble in my opinion.

such as a Dryer plug-receptacle or a Welding receptacle? That is not special house wiring, at least not in my house.

I guess it is all how important time is to you, if you have 1/2 an hour to spare while your pot heats up, go for it.

[blikseme300]

While my pot get up to temp I am doing some other casting or reloading task so there is no actual waiting. Proper activity planning saves lots of time. Casting and reloading is a pleasurable time that I use to escape from the daily grind. You could call it therapy and it is not done to simply save money or shoot more for the same money.

[Liberty'sSon]

Just following up since our last pm about 2 weeks ago when you said the smelter would be mailed out over the weekend? Any luck getting it shipped? I have everything set up and need to get casting on my end.

[dragon813gt]

Man do I want one of these :)
But unfortunately I can't weld :(

[khmer6]

Those things look awesome.

[Springfield]

So when is the auction on the 4th pot?