Lee 30-150-TL-PB in my .30-06

[Maven]

All, SWMBO asked me to straighten up my desk prior to the arrival of dinner guests this PM. In so doing, I came across a few of the targets I fired using the group-buy CB. They were good enough (Maybe "instructive" is a better term.) The rifle is a Win. Mod. 70 "Westerner" (blind mag.), which is glass-bedded, has had the trigger adjusted and wears a 16x Tasco Mag IV 'scope. The latter, I might add, has performed flawlessly for the last 15yrs.. The cases (LC '67, match) were neck-sized in a Lee collet die, expanded with a Lyman M-die, but seated with a 24yr. old Ly. seater die since the seater that came with the collet die has lately been producing a lot of run-out. The 30-150-TL-PB's were'nt weighed, but segregated by cavity: Cavs. 1 & 2 drop almost identical CB's, as do #'s 3 - 6, but the latter four are different enough in weight (than the first two) to merit separating them. I also tried sizing some to .311" and lubing in a normal fashion v. leaving some unsized (.313" - .3135") and TL'ing them in Liquid Alox.

Alloy: Essentially WW's (a thing of the past?) + 1% Sn.

Primers: WLR, as I've had great luck with them and they were (notice the past tense) easy to obtain.

Powders: I've tried both WC 820 and Blue Dot, but prefer the latter for this CB because it burns much more efficiently than 820. I.e., WC 820 does better with heavier CB's and charge weights, which are incompatible with a 140gr. plain-base CB and 14gr. - 15gr. charges.

Results I: The WC 820 loads were dirty, producing OK accuracy, but also high extreme velocity spreads and a leaded bore. I got ~100fps./grain with it, but it won't be near and dear to my heart in the future with the Lee CB.

Results II: Re-examining the newly-found targets (fired @ 50 yds.), I had 9 shots in 1" x 1.25", with 1 flyer to screw things up when using 13.5gr. Blue Dot (~1,530fps, +-23fps) and unsized CB's. A second group of 10 did the same thing except 9 went into 1" x 1" + a flyer.* Those sized to .311" grouped 2X larger than the unsized ones. Another test using ~12.5gr. B. Dot was equally accurate (1,503fps, +-17fps), but with little bore leading.

Conclusion: Since the unsized TL'ed bullets outperformed the sized ones, I'll take the path of less resistance next time and leave them in their natural state. Casting hotter and water-dropping them won't hurt either since they should virtually eliminate bore leading with the plain-based CB's.


*By comparison, my best gas-checked CB's, a RG-4 @ .311" and a tapered (Hanned die) Ly. #311291 @ .3095", body and .302", nose will group (10 shots)into 3/4", sometimes with a flyer, at the same distance.

[Bret4207]

Thanks for the report Maven. I have yet to try this boolit, although the design sure made sense at the time. I was hoping for a "plinker" type load at 12-1400 fps for woods/field walking use. Sort of a 32-40 duplicate. Be nice if I could find and acceptable load. Be nicer if I could find a big jug of time to do all this fun stuff!

[Maven]

Bret4207, 1,200fps - 1,400fps shouldn't be a problem with the proper propellant. Unique & B. Dot seem to be worth trying, but stay away from WC 820 for this application. (I'm getting ~100fps/grain of WC 820 in both the '06 and .30-30Win.) I'll say this, at ~1,500fps that CB really smacks into our berm!

[Bret4207]

Thanks for the tips. No need to worry about surplus powders with me. Never get time enough to order, much less the $$$.

[JSH]

I have some loaded for the Krag, 10.0 of Unique. I had very good results with the Harris 155 GB with 9.0 of Unique.
I will post a bit more when I give them a go, Monday I hope. I have plans for them in the 30-20 and the 30-30.
Jeff

[Maven]

"... seated with a 24yr. old Ly. seater die since the seater that came with the collet die has lately been producing a lot of run-out."

I think I've discovered a minor problem and solution to seating this CB. The problem is that when seating the bullet "long," e.g., 3.15" OAL in my .30-06, there isn't much purchase on the CB itself. Then too, the case necks rest on the tumble lube grooves on the CB (smaller diameter) allowing it either to be seated out of square or to wobble with mere finger pressure. One solution was to use the standard Lyman seater die as mentioned above. The other is to seat the CB's so that all lube grooves are covered by the case neck, since this provides more support/alignment. I tried this yesterday with some .30-30 rounds, which were seated to 2.44" rather than the more typical 2.52" for my Marlin #336. I'll attempt this in the '06 case as well, but with the Lee [collet die set] seater to see whether it is contributing to the problem. (I don't yet know what the OAL will be for the .30-06.) Btw, this should work especially well with shorter necked .30cal. cartridges too.

[PatMarlin]

We talkin' bout' this boolit?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=7786

[Maven]

Yes we are.

[PatMarlin]

I've yet to try mine. Boy that is one GB that took some time wasn't it?.. :Fire:

[Bret4207]

Looking at the pic makes me think I have a different design. I bought into the very first 30 PB TL GB. I'm talking 3-4 years ago. Does that sound like this one? I thought it was more of a Loverin looking design.

[PatMarlin]

This one was just finished a few months ago Bret.

[Bret4207]

This is the one I was thinking of.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4875&stc=1&d=1190072111
30 Plinker.jpg

[PatMarlin]

That one looks pretty good. Just about like the 311407 I was shooting today, but without the gascheck.

[Maven]

All, although the 30-150-TL-PB performed poorly in the Marlin #336 yesterday, it performed beautifully in the '06 today. The data is the same as in my first post with these exceptions. First, I didn't segregate or weigh the CB's by cavity. Second, I TL'd them with Lee LA (slightly thinned with mineral spirits), but did not size them. Third, as per your suggestions, I tried 9.3gr. of Unique instead of 15 & 16gr. of WC 820, but I wiped the bore with a dry patch after each 5 shot string.

In case the pic of the target is too large to attach (If so, I'll re-edit and post it separately.), let me describe the results @ 50 yds.: In essence, the 15 shot and 10 shot groups were wonderful, but my failure to hold the rifle the same way resulted in 2 flyers (to the left) on the 15-shot target and one (same place) on the 10-shot target. Oddly enough, the first shot, as well as the remaining ones, save the flyers already mentioned, impacted the target in the same location.

Although, I'm tickled by the outcome, I'm not so pleased with Lee LA in this application (no pun intended) since I got leading with as few as 5 shots. By contrast, I fired a CBE blunt-nosed, gas checked version of Saeco's RG-4 with only 1 lube groove filled (with Felix Lube) at a much faster velocity and got only a hint of leading. (I used 29.3gr. of whatever powder Hansen used in their 7.62 x 54R, 180gr. FMJ loads in the late 1980's - 1990's. It is a good performer.)

[PatMarlin]

Looks good Maven.. :drinks:

What if you give her a shot with the largest sizing die and conventional lube without sizing the diameter?

What diameter are they averaging? oK I found it .3135. I wonder how well these will work in my '06? it's got a .312 bore. I've got a K31 swiss coming that it may work well for too.

[Maven]

Pat, I've taken the remaining unsized, liq. alox-coated CB's, which are ~.3135" as you mentioned, and lubed them with a .314" die in my Ly. 450: As no shiny spots appeared, I guess it's the better way. However, I think I'll water quench the next batch that I cast so that I won't have to run a dry patch through the bbl. every 5 shots to remove the lead. Btw, 9.3gr. of Unique (that's the closest my Ly. pistol powder measure will come to 9gr.) is an excellent load. As for the K-31, I normally size my gas checked CB's to .309". but the TL bullet may perform well "as cast" or sizing to .311". In either case, fill all of the lube grooves and seat it so that all are within the case neck for the K-31.

[Maven]

I just returned from a rather chilly day at the range with the Lee 30-150-PB-TL and my .30-06. As I had ~50 of them (unsorted; some sized to .311") on my reloading bench that I was about to toss into my furnace, I got the bright idea of tapering them in a Hanned die made specifically for that purpose. I.e., it will expand CB noses to .302" and bases to .3095" and has turned two molds with undersized noses (Lee C309-180-1R & Lyman #311291) into m.o.a. shooters in my particular '06. If it worked with other bullets, and since I was just going to remelt the Lees anyway, I figured I'd have nothing to lose by tapering them. Instead of using 9.3gr. of Unique, which I'm running short of, I substituted 10gr. of Blue Dot, which I'm trying to use up. OAL was 3.20" v. 3.035" for untapered ones. Btw, the Lee 30-150-TL-PB's were already lubed and then relubed after tapering in an oversized H & I die. The target below shows 12 shots @ 50 yds. with the tapered CB's. For reference, the orange dot is 3/4" in diameter. The black dots are bullet lube. There was no leading with these, but I did get slight amounts of it near the muzzle with the untapered ones, which I retested. Accuracy with the untapered ones wasn't nearly as good.

[PatMarlin]

I think you found a winner there Maven. Now where can you buy the Hanned Line die? Probably out of business.. :mrgreen:

[Maven]

Pat, The die was made by Ed Wosika before he sold The Hanned Line to Dennis Smith. However, I don't think either is still in business. What to do? You can do a Google search for Ed, ask someone at the CBA for his e-mail address, or ask Buckshot if he'd be willing to fabricate such a die for you. As for the die itself, it works better for undersized bore riders than Loverins and is caliber & rifle specific. Sorry I can't be more helpful, Paul

[Leftoverdj]

I'm getting groups close to Maven's without the hassle. Ten grains of H 2400, CCI Large Rifle, mixed milsurp .308 cases, air cooled WW+2% tin, sized .309 with Felix lube in four bands. Rifle is a CZ 550 wearing a Swift AO 4-12. Ten shot 50 yard groups are running inch or less with sometimes one flier, sometimes not.

I can live with that for anything I'm going to do with this bullet.

[yeahbub]

Bret4207, what is that boolit you have pictured there??? It looks like a juicy candidate for 7.63x39, sort of a Loverin with tumble lube grooves? What's the weight/dia and does anyone have an extra they'd want to let go of? I'm looking for a 311407 GB 6-cav as well. . . . .

[Leftoverdj]

That bullet was called the .30 Plinker during its development. Think Lar45 did the drawing. That was several years back and one of the early group buys, maybe the last one on Accurate Reloading before we migrated here. May have been rerun since. Mine casts .312 and 155 grains. I did not get anywhere with it in my try with a CZ 527 with a .311 groove diameter, but I have not put much effort into it, either. I'm pretty sure I can make it work in the CZ at .22 lr velocities, but have not gotten around to it.

You are not going to get it to function a semi-auto 7.62x39 and have any accuracy. It's a special purpose plinker intended for cheap shooting at very limited velocity. As I posted earlier, I have it doing that in a couple of .308s. Most of the folks in on that project were high volume Marlin .30-30 shooters, but I have not heard much out of them.

[Bret4207]

I believe Emmett is right on the time period it was designed. I have yet to really wring it out. As I said, I was hoping for a mild 32-40 type load that could be developed for everything from the 303 Savage/30WCF- 30-06 so the kids and I could play with it. Perhaps it will still come to pass.

The 30 Shortski Rooski with that boolit!? Thanks a bunch pal! Now I gotta think on that one too!