Questions about 9mm and leading

[Arkansas Paul]

I know the 9mm can be a b*** to cast for without leading, and I'm experiencing it now. I loaded up about 50 rounds and went to the range today. Well, after 20 of them the leading was so thick you couldn't make out the riflings. The thing is, it only leaded at the end of the barrel. Maybe the last inch and a half or two inches. The first half of the barrel didn't have hardly any. Does the location of the leading tell me anything as to why.

These are cast with a Lee 124 grain TC mold and are not sized. They dropped at .3575. Lubed with 45-45-10.
Alloy is half stick on WWs and half clip on WWs. Load is 4 grains of Bullseye and a Winchester SP primer.

I know I can go with straight clip on WW alloy and water drop to harden it up a bit and apply the lube a little heavier and see if that works. I also have some stick solder with a BHN of about 22 I can add to harden it up a bit if needed.

What I don't know is, can the powder choice make it lead? Should I maybe try a slower powder like Unique or Universal?

Any help would be appreciated.

[Bigslug]

Check out the chapter on leading in the link offered in the "From Ingot to Target" sticky. According to the author, your lube is giving out on you, and you need to either fill more grooves, switch lubes, or go to a bullet that carries more of it.

[Buzz64]

Yes it does - looks like time to try a different lube as you boolit size appears to be OK.

This is from the EXCELLENT book by Fryxell and Applegate titled From Ingot to Target:
Splotches near the muzzle - If the first half of the revolver barrel is shiny and clean and the lead deposits are only found near the muzzle, then that's a clear indication that the lubrication capacity of the lube/bullet system is being overwhelmed. The shooter has several options to fix this: if the bullet has multiple lube grooves and not all of them were filled, then fill more lube grooves (I know shooters who refuse to fill more than one lube groove on bullets with multiple grease grooves, "Don't wanna waste lube!", I guess they prefer cleaning guns to shooting...). If the bullet has no other lube grooves to fill, then a shooter can move to a more efficient lube, or one with better viscous flow properties. If all else fails, the shooter can go to another bullet design capable of carrying more lube.

[Arkansas Paul]

Thanks guys. I'm tumble lubing with the 45-45-10 mixture, but I'm using a very light coat. I'll either put a coat on heavier, or apply two coats and see if that helps.

[Buzz64]

FWIW, I'm running the same boolit sized to .356 in a 450 L/S using White Label Carnuba Red in both a Shield and CZ 75 on top of 4.0 grains of Green dot with no leading.

[Bullet Caster]

Have you slugged your barrel? You need to do this to determine if the boolit is leading or if it is, in fact, lube failure. A lot of new 9mm reloaders seat the boolit too deeply and squash the front driving band. Also if you use a Lee Factory Crimp die this could be your problem. Load a dummy round, then pull it and measure the diameter. If it is squashing the boolit, it will lead like crazy. BC

[runfiverun]

2 coats is the prescribed way to do it anyway.
you could also add some b-wax to the 45 lube.
yeah I know it's a tumble lube. [I better]
add a chunk about 1/4 the size of the lube you add it to.

[Arkansas Paul]

That's something to think about. I'm not using a FCD, but I do have the seating die screwed down where it is applying a slight taper crimp. Maybe I should back it off. I'll pull a bullet like you said and see what it's measuring and see if it's swaging it down.
Thanks for the replies. I knew 9mm could be difficult, but figuring it out is half the fun.

[Buzz64]

Seems like if it was bullet sizing problem leading wouldn't be limited to the 'last inch and a half to two inches of the barrel'.

[BBQJOE]

I too started using the 124 tc. using alox, with a single coat for 9mm. I leaded up my barrel pretty good in exactly the same way you describe.
JMO here, the 124tc seems more suitable for .38. I decided to acquire the 356 124 2R. it seems to be a more appropriate (at least visually) bullet to me.
I made up a batch, double lubed with alox, loaded in front of 4.2 unique, with a hardness of about 11, and will be trying them out shortly. I'll post my results here somewhere.
I'll be running them through a new M&P 9mm.

[Char-Gar]

Here is your recipe for happiness.

1. Stop the water drop stuff and shoot them air cooled.
2. Drop back to 3.5 grains of Bullseye.

Don't try and figure out why, just do it. I am betting your problems will go away and then you can figure out why.

[MtGun44]

Use a real lube like LBT soft blue or NRA 50-50. Frequently the 9mm will not work with these
tumble lubes. Harder is likely not required. Diam at .3575 may be marginal, may need
larger in addition to a better lube. What are you measuring with? If a caliper, you could be
off a good bit and this may be the issue. You need a .0001" micrometer to be sure of
your dimensions.

Bill

[Mlcompound]

I found a similar problem I was having with my 9. It cleared up with a larger size. I now use 0.358 with relatively soft range lead. The lube was being blown off before it would seal and then it would run out of lube. I use 1 part parrafin 1 part vaseline and a tad oil treatment as a pan lube. Shot 300 yesterday at tactical class and my barrel is squeaky clean (barreta px4). This is a lee 125 round flat nose with 4g bullseye.

[Arkansas Paul]

Here is your recipe for happiness.

1. Stop the water drop stuff and shoot them air cooled.
2. Drop back to 3.5 grains of Bullseye.

Don't try and figure out why, just do it. I am betting your problems will go away and then you can figure out why.

1. So far, I have been shooting air cooled boolits. I was thinking of trying the water dropped method.
2. I will certainly give 3.5 grains a try.

I am well aware that I am a rookie and I will take your advice, and then find out why. :)

[Arkansas Paul]

I also have Red Dot, 700-X and Unique.
Would one of those be a better option?

[Arkansas Paul]

Here is your recipe for happiness.

1. Stop the water drop stuff and shoot them air cooled.
2. Drop back to 3.5 grains of Bullseye.

Don't try and figure out why, just do it. I am betting your problems will go away and then you can figure out why.

Well, thanks for the idea, but it didn't turn out too happy.
3.5 grains stuck a bullet in the barrel.
Back to the drawing board.
I did learn something though. When I drove the bullet out of the barrel, I measured it and it was 0.355" so I think my 0.3575" boolits are plenty big enough.
I'm going to pan lube some and see if that helps.

[captaint]

Paul - I have no idea how you stuck a boolit in a pistol barrel using 3.5 of Bullseye. We are talking about a pistol, yes ?? So, with the most recent, boolit sticking load, what happened with the leading ?? Mike

[justing]

i use lee alox and have no problem with leading in my 9

[BBQJOE]

I too started using the 124 tc. using alox, with a single coat for 9mm. I leaded up my barrel pretty good in exactly the same way you describe.
JMO here, the 124tc seems more suitable for .38. I decided to acquire the 356 124 2R. it seems to be a more appropriate (at least visually) bullet to me.
I made up a batch, double lubed with alox, loaded in front of 4.2 unique, with a hardness of about 11, and will be trying them out shortly. I'll post my results here somewhere.
I'll be running them through a new M&P 9mm.
Double lubing appears to be the key here. They shot well, pretty damn accurate, and waaaaaayyyyy less leading than my previous single lubed batch. Barrel wasn't squeaky clean, but I guess I can live with the results. Of course a man won't stop until it is perfect.

[BBQJOE]

Well, thanks for the idea, but it didn't turn out too happy.
3.5 grains stuck a bullet in the barrel.
Back to the drawing board.
I did learn something though. When I drove the bullet out of the barrel, I measured it and it was 0.355" so I think my 0.3575" boolits are plenty big enough.
I'm going to pan lube some and see if that helps.
I'm going to guess you loaded a bullet onto an empty cartridge.

[Arkansas Paul]

I'm going to guess you loaded a bullet onto an empty cartridge.

I've never done that before, but I'm certainly not saying it isn't possible.
The starting load is 3.7 grains, that's why I thought it may have been the load. It didn't eject the casing, but I didn't think anything about that, because I've had that problem loading 100 grain bullets in it.


Paul - I have no idea how you stuck a boolit in a pistol barrel using 3.5 of Bullseye. We are talking about a pistol, yes ?? So, with the most recent, boolit sticking load, what happened with the leading ??

I suspect that BBQJOE was correct and the primer pushed it just into the barrel.
I had only fired 4-5 rounds, but leading was very light. I'll go give it another whirl.

[MtGun44]

3.5 gr of BE in 9mm will NOT stick a boolit in a pistol length bbl, will
make 900-1000 fps.

You missed the powder or MASSIVELY undercharged that one.

Pan lube with NRA 50-50 and you have a good chance to succeed.

Measuring with WHAT?? If caliper, get a micrometer with .0001" marking.

Load a dummy round and pull boolit and remeasure. Possible to size down
the boolit in the case.

Are you using a Lee Factory Crimp Die? If so, this is possibly your problem,
they can size the boolit down in the case.

Bill

[Arkansas Paul]

Are you using a Lee Factory Crimp Die?

I am not.
I suspect that you guys are correct in that I missed the powder charge on one. I've not done it before, but I guess it was bound to happen sometime. I was aware enough to not chamber another round and pull the trigger, thank goodness.

I see the NRA 50-50 lube is half beeswax and half Alox 350. Where is a good place to get the Alox?

[MtGun44]

Just buy the premade lube. Javelina is a well known brand, but I think they are
out of businesss. Lyman sells it, should be easy to find. The Alox available today
is different viscosity, going to have to work on mix to make it right stiffness.
White Label makes it, too - uses "Xlox" a variation of "Alox".

http://www.lsstuff.com/

LBT soft blue is also highly recommended, available from LBT

http://lbtmoulds.com/

Several pan lubing threads. If you neck up a .30-06 case to clear your
boolits and cut off the base, it will make a nice cake cutter.

Bill

[Arkansas Paul]

Sweet. Thank you.
Is the 50-50 a better choice than the Carnauba Red?
I haven't used either.