32 S&W Long/32 H&R Magnum Load Question

[Blintersifrid]

OK, so I'm loading up .32 H&R cases for use in a M1895 Nagant revolver.
(Yeah, I know, off-brand use.)

My problem is this: I want to stay at the mild end of the spectrum (think closer to .32 S&W Long pressures than H&R Mag pressures) since these have to go through my Nagant, and I only have red dot and blue dot powders available, left over from loading 9mm. (And with the way things are right now, probably nothing else for the forseeable future...)

Further wrinkle: the wife has forbade casting, which means that I must buy in projectiles. I'm currently looking at these: http://www.missouribullet.com/results.php?category=5&secondary=20 as I have purchased from the company before and am planning on a purchase again soon.

Can anyone recommend a load?

Thanks, guys.

'Sifrid

[I'll Make Mine]

For a start, you're using the wrong brass. You're probably going to find the .32 H&R Magnum (like .32 S&W or .32 S&W Long) will bulge in the 1895 Nagant chambers, possibly even split; they won't be reusable. Get some .32-20 brass instead; you may need to take about .010" off either the rim thickness or the cylinder pusher/recoil shield in the revolver (if you have a tight one), but otherwise these cases will fill the chamber better and won't split or bulge beyond reuse. Alternately, you can still buy loaded ammunition and cases correct for that revolver (I'd check Midway or Graf's first).

Once you have brass that will be reusable, you can either use 7.62x38R dies, or improvise (there are a number of posts around with information on how to make this brass work well in your Nagant); lots of folks like black powder (just "fill the case" as with other black powder cartridge loads -- it'll be pretty close to 20 grains), but .32-20 loads listed as safe for older revolvers should be okay in the .32-20 case in your Nagant.

BTW, the bonus you'll get using the .32-20 case is that, though the case isn't long enough to seal in the barrel, there's still a lot less bullet jump than there would be with the shorter .32 H&R Mag or .32 S&W Long cases, and you won't have half or more of the bullet jump being in a chamber that fits bullet plus brass as opposed to bullet size. FWIW, based on reports I've read of original Russian loaded ammunition (dating from WWII and newer -- that revolver was apparently supported by the Red Army as late as the mid-1950s), it's a good bit hotter than .32-20 loaded for older revolvers; despite the 1895 model date, that's a modern revolver originally designed to support smokeless ammunition and was a pretty hot performer for the day -- only the Mauser and Borchardts semi-autos could outrun the 1895 Nagant when it was new.

[Blintersifrid]

Thank you for your reply.

I've got some of the "real stuff" for the Nagant, but reloading those cases will be tricky for awhile: I've been given what looks to be a truly awesome black powder load (100gr @ 1250fps!) that I am itching to try, but for which I lack the proper dies (in this case, .30 Carbine dies), magnum rifle primers (Yep, magnum rifle) and, of course, black powder. (Plus experience with the differences between reloading with smokeless and reloading with black, but I have a friend who shoots black in SASS who I'm sure I can tap for help with THAT part.)

I've seen that I may get bulging using the H&R brass, but I've also been told by people that I trust to know that it's the high-end loads that bulge and that the lower-pressure loads do not. Having about 100 used .32 H&R cases in my possession, I figured that I would risk losing it in case the brass *did* wreck itself on firing. (It's not like I'm out a whole lot if it does...)

[I'll Make Mine]

There is no way in the world you'll get 100 grains of black powder in to a Nagant revolver case; it's almost the same size as .32-20, which held 20 grains of black years before the 1895 Nagant came out (and black powder hasn't gained much if any density in the past 150 years). Take at look at the size of a .50-100 case (which did, originally, hold 100 grains of BP) compared to a .32-20 or 7.62x38R.

Even if you have a load that won't split your .32 H&R Mag cases, it'll still bulge them; it's the same mechanism as fire forming to convert a case from one chamber to another -- an activity that's usually carried out with moderate pressure loads, not top end ones. Beyond that, there's a slight risk to the shooter if a case splits in an oversize chamber; you could get powder gas exiting between cylinder and recoil frame (right where your shooting hand is), possibly even see brass fragments emerging with enough velocity to turn around (due to aerodynamic forces) and land in your face. At the very least, wear gloves and safety glasses when you shoot these undersize rounds. Yes, lots of folks have shot those .32 revolver rounds in the Nagant -- but I don't recall any of them reporting good results, either for accuracy or for getting more than one use from the brass.

Edit: I just realized you're talking about a 100 grain bullet. Never mind the comments about powder capacity, but shooting the .32 S&W family brass in the Nagant is still, IMO, a bad idea.

[rintinglen]

Provided you keep your loads low, you and your gun should be safe. However, that brass will bulge, and I would limit reloads to one per case. I'd run 2.3 grains of Bullseye or RED Dot under that Cowboy number 18 78 grain boolit.