A little dissapointed...

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

So I am brand new to swaging. I have a set of old corbin dies I acquired in an estate sale I have been dying to try out. I finally acquired my last bit of material I needed tonight, thanks to Utah Shooter (thanks again for the lead wire :) ). So I have both RCE 22 cal jackets I ordered and some rimfire jackets too. I decided to start with the commercial jackets. I weight them to figure out how heavy my cores need to be. Check. I cut the wire a couple grains over my target weight and swage them. Check. Go to seat my core in the commercial jacket and it is a no-go. So I measured the swaged core and it is right at .202". The jacket also will not fit into the core seat die (too wide by a thou or two.) So I grab a rimfire jacket and the core goes in about half to 3/4 with moderate pressure and abruptly stops, with just a bit still hanging out of the jacket. So I finished seating it just inside the jacket with a smaller diamter punch. Then I switched back to the core seat punch and fully seat the core. OK, check. Then I go to point form, knowing that my core is most likely a bit too light because my initial calulations were based on the commercial jacket, which is heavier. I am this far into it so I go ahead and form the point. It turns out ok.

So I go back, up my core size a bit, and repeat the above process. This time I get a bullet that looks great. I am stoked. Throw the micrometer on it and it comes out right on .223" all the way around. :veryconfu

Anyone ever shoot .223" bullets in...well....a .223?? Obviously commercial manufacturers swage them to .224" (most do as far as I know, which isn't much).

There were two point form dies with this set. One looks like a standard 6s ogive and one is far more blunt (I think it is for lighter 22 hornet bullets). Both measure .223".

Back in the day were most 22 cals swaged at .223 and were thinner jackets used?

Thanks!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

most older 22 hornets were .223 instead of .224

But, I don't know about other 22 calibers.
Jon

[Utah Shooter]

Are you forming a pressure ring? What are you using for lube?

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Well, not quite sure what a pressure ring is. I noticed that after seating the core fairly firmly that lead is slightly seeping between the punch and the jackets. The only lube I had on hand was Hornady Unique. Probably not the best but it seemed to work just fine.

[30yrcaster]

When you say it measures .223 could it possibly be .2238 or .2239? My mic's go to ten thousands. If that's the case I wouldn't worry about it. Funny thing with swaging dies or at least corbin stuff, they make it to work with 1 setup. Changing any of the components gives different results. If they make a die for rimfire jackets, things may end up different if you use Berger J4's. Those .202 cores seem the size I use for 6mm. RCE told me long ago I could use the same core swage for .224 and 6mm but not use the 6mm for .224. I wanted the best fit for 6mm so I got a .200 core swage for them.

The pressure ring is at the base of the bullet. With hand swaged bullets the very bottom will measure a couple ten thousands larger than the rest of the shank ie. .2242 and the rest of the shank is .224. This is very normal and freaks a lot of people out since Sierra, Hornady and the others don't have this. If you look at some BR bullet makers, they usually mention it in their spec what the pressure ring size is. It's just how the bullets end up from hand swaging.

You'll want to get some Lanolin based swage lube. You may get by with core swaging & seating but you could get a stuck bullet in your point form die if you don't use the right lube. Getting a stuck bullet out of a point die can be a real headache. Only had to do it once where the ejection pin shot right though the lead core when I was setting up the die.

You said it was some old Corbin stuff. Which press did you get? One of the 5/8 x 24 die presses? Just wondering.

BTW, those .224 jackets from RCE are Berger J4's, considered the best out there.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Im sorry... the bullets measure right on .2230". Hmmm...maybe it is a core swage die for 6mm. Never thought of the possibility of that.

[BT Sniper]

How much did that bullet you made with the 22lr jacket weight? It may not have had enough pressure applied to it in the point form process to swage out to .224. What diameter are they exiting the core seat die at?

Yes .202 sounds about right for 6mm cores and possibly a bit big for 22 cal. My 22 cal cores are .185ish in diameter.

It is all a bit of a learning curve, a little more practice and I'm sure you will be on your way. It is certainly better to be a little small with a die then big but as far as accuracy goes, you will have no problem shooting .223 bullets but I have found bullets from .2240-.2250 to be possibly a bit more accurate. never know till you shoot a few.

BT

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

When I did my point forming I continued to lower the die body until I noticed the bullet was just hanging up on the ejector pin. From there I raised it just a tad so it wouldn't stick. As far as the weight goes, the finished rimfire bullet was 57.5 grains.

As for a "pressure ring", I do notice at the base of the bullet there is a slight ring around the bullet. Is that the pressure ring?

Thanks!

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

67284

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

67285

[30yrcaster]

When I did my point forming I continued to lower the die body until I noticed the bullet was just hanging up on the ejector pin. From there I raised it just a tad so it wouldn't stick. As far as the weight goes, the finished rimfire bullet was 57.5 grains.

As for a "pressure ring", I do notice at the base of the bullet there is a slight ring around the bullet. Is that the pressure ring?

Thanks!
That ring at the base is the ironed out rim from the rimfire shell.

I thought you were talking about the RCE jackets. Your pics are of rimfire jackets. Unless you have a lead tip die, you don't want the lead coming out of the bullet.

To adjust the core seat, you usually give it enough pressure so the seated core stays in the die, not on the punch. You don't need more pressure than that. Other conditions can cause them to stick on the punch though like a external punch that's the wrong size either allowing lead to extrude around it or the punch digging into the jacket.

[BT Sniper]

I swage a piece of pure lead in my point form dies, this gives me an exact measurment of the interior diameter of the die, not sure if corbins is able to do this but it should give you a better idea of your point form die's exact diameter.

9s and 6s 22 cals

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070067.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/BTSniper/media/P1070067.jpg.html)

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

That is a rimfire jacket.

I never had a problem sticking the core and jacket on the punch in the core seating process. On the point forming process I adjusted the die a bit too low and when i went to eject the bullet it stuck on the ejector pin. Then I figured it out that I had close the tip of the bullet too much and raised the die.

As far as the weight goes I had better go check my scale to make sure it didnt get bumped but unless I have lost my marbles I am pretty sure it is 57.5 grains.

[Utah Shooter]

What lead that I sent are you using for this? Just a thought. Your bullet on the point form process meplat is way to large. I would assume this is why you can get a 57 gr (hp or flat point) projectile with 22lr brass.

[BT Sniper]

57.5 grains sounds correct when using 22lr brass jackets. Keep at it. A little more time spent getting to know your dies and you should be on track in no time.

BT

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Brian I will have to try this. I am pretty sure the die produces .2230" bullets.

So when seating the core you want to apply just enough pressure to keep the jacket and core in the die? Nothing more, nothing less?? I was kind of unsure about this step. And for the point form, is my above-mentioned method OK???

Thanks everyone for the help.

Where else can you go and get "professional" swaging help and advice after midnight???

[30yrcaster]

Back in the day were most 22 cals swaged at .223 and were thinner jackets used?

Thanks!
Which "Back in the Day" are you referring to?
Vernon Speer started the rimfire jacket process during WW2 when jackets or bullets for the handloader weren't available. RCBS, his company, stands for Rock Chuck Bullet Swage dies.

Back in my day when I started swaging in the 80's Corbin was the only place to get dies and equipment and they experimented on us with us paying the bill. There were some other people making stuff but you had to be in the know on how to find it. Don't remember ever seeing it in the back of magazines. Sierra used to have jackets listed in their brochure and you had to call them to order some. Their jackets were thicker than J4's. Commercial jackets are thicker in the shank & base than rimfire jackets and could require a different punch to seat them without sticking problems. Sierra stopped selling jackets to the public for quite awhile but I see they're selling them again but they're out of stock as everything else seems to be.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

The ejector pin is rather large in diameter. I could probably replace it and get a smaller meplat. At that point the ejector pin was wanting to hang onto the bullet after electing it out of the die body.

I could probably take that pin down to a smaller diamter no problem.

[Utah Shooter]

On the point forming process I adjusted the die a bit too low and when i went to eject the bullet it stuck on the ejector pin. Then I figured it out that I had close the tip of the bullet too much and raised the die.

From what I understand this means a poorly made die. If I am correct (which I rarely am) the ejection pin on more accurate dies should eject off the meplat and not on the lead core. Your ejection punch is not what forms the meplat. That is what the die is for.

[30yrcaster]

So when seating the core you want to apply just enough pressure to keep the jacket and core in the die? Nothing more, nothing less?? I was kind of unsure about this step. And for the point form, is my above-mentioned method OK???


According to both Corbin books I have, seating the core til it sticks in the die and no more. Adding more pressure doesn't produce a better bullet but could crack the die if too much is used.

Your point forming sounds correct. It will stick on the ejection punch until the hole is smaller than the size of the punch. You have too much lead coming out the top. Like I said, unless you have a lead tip die to put a nice point on the lead, you don't want it coming out the top. Studies have shown messed up meplat affects accuracy and having lead coming out the top unshaped would do that.

[30yrcaster]

The ejector pin is rather large in diameter. I could probably replace it and get a smaller meplat. At that point the ejector pin was wanting to hang onto the bullet after electing it out of the die body.

I could probably take that pin down to a smaller diamter no problem.

No you can't do that. You'll never get the bullets out of the die. The ejection pin actually needs to be a perfect fit with the hole in the die. To get a smaller meplat you need a smaller hole in the die or you need a tip closing die. The smallest ejection pin/hole most dies makers will make is .062. If you want the meplat smaller you need to get the tip closing die.

[BT Sniper]

When I seat the cores I apply just enough pressure till I can see the lead just start to bleed upward in the jacket. Others may use less pressure? You will develope a "feel" for the amount of pressure you apply in each setp of the process.

Your set up sounds about right for the point form though I have no experience with the corbin dies.

A pressure ring, as I understand it, is usually a slightly larger diameter portion of the jacket/bullet formed around the base end of the barring surface of the bullet. It is typically a few tenths larger in diameter then the rest of the barring surface.

Do not be too shook up or disapointed yet, give it a little while longer to get to know your dies. Should the die in fact be .2230 and you find they don't shoot as well as you like, you might want to contact Corbin and ask him. If he is good at his business he should be more then happy to check out your die for you and lap it up to .2240 if necessary, that is what I would do.

BT

p.s. on the west coast it is still 10 PM :)

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

No you can't do that. You'll never get the bullets out of the die. The ejection pin actually needs to be a perfect fit with the hole in the die. To get a smaller meplat you need a smaller hole in the die or you need a tip closing die.

OK gottcha! Thanks! Look like I am stuck with a larger meplat for now LOL!

Brian, thanks for the advice. I may contact Corbin and see if they can do this. But first, like you said, I am gonna play around with the dies a bit more and do some experimenting. Can't wait to get your dies and compare the 2 sets!

[30yrcaster]

One other thing to think about. The rimfire jackets are .705. There's a reason BR bullets in .224 were 52 & 53 grains. That's the .705 jacket. Those dies you have are probably designed for that weight bullet. Adding more lead doesn't get you anything unless you want to make spitzers and you'll need that extra point forming lead tip die and from either Dave Corbin or Richard (rce) you won't be seeing them any time soon. They're swamped with orders due to the bullet/ammo crisis.

One other thing, my rimfire jacket bullets come out to .2245 in the shank in the 6s dies. The ejection pin was quite large as well.

[Utah Shooter]

Wow... There is so much wrong with this thread I do not know what to say.

[30yrcaster]

Should the die in fact be .2230 and you find they don't shoot as well as you like, you might want to contact Corbin and ask him. If he is good at his business he should be more then happy to check out your die for you and lap it up to .2240 if necessary, that is what I would do.

BT

p.s. on the west coast it is still 10 PM :)
I can see you never dealt with the Corbins. They'll answer you emails and talk to you in depth but you won't get anything soon, even in the best of times. They're always backed up and take a long time to get things. Sometimes they'll squeeze you in and get something done quickly. I bought dies and they came so late, I was already on to other things and just tried them to see if they're were what I ordered then put them away and never used them. That's why having other options like yourself is a good thing. BTW, you never answered my pm.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Utah Shooter, I listen to all advice but dont necessarily take it.

[newcastter]

I can see you never dealt with the Corbins. They'll answer you emails and talk to you in depth but you won't get anything soon, even in the best of times. They're always backed up and take a long time to get things. Sometimes they'll squeeze you in and get something done quickly. I bought dies and they came so late, I was already on to other things and just tried them to see if they're were what I ordered then put them away and never used them. That's why having other options like yourself is a good thing. BTW, you never answered my pm.
Has it been 2 weeks yet? Thats how long I give Brian. I understand he is busy but to suggest another maker should get back to you and fix it or he is not a good buisness man then explain what he would do... huh thats interesting.

[BT Sniper]

Has it been 2 weeks yet? Thats how long I give Brian. I understand he is busy but to suggest another maker should get back to you and fix it or he is not a good buisness man then explain what he would do... huh thats interesting.

I think we may have misinterputed what I said. I am saying that if myself (as a average Joe customer of corbins) had a problem with one of corbin's die sets and I thought it was a bad die or undersized I would contact him and ask his addvise. Shurly Corbin would have somthing to offer, wouldn't you think? Why not go straight to the source?

Utah, you should elaborate a little, all we can do is offer our thoughts and opinions

30yrcaster, you are correct, I have not purchased any die sets from Corbin (come to think of it I may have aquired a few used ones I haven't used yet), I did order and receive a manual canalure tool and severial wheels for the powered cannalure tool from Dave and was pleased with product and shipping times. I got a Sea Girt press and jackets from Richard and again was pleased with nothing but good to say.

as for PMs, yes I get backed up here quite often. Probably got 1,000 pms just this year allone..... Actually just looked it up, got 521 messages sent to me since Jan1 and have sent 392 messages in reply. My inbox has storage for 4000 PMs and it is 89% full. I typically fillter all my messages to show unansered PMs and get back to as many as I can as soon as I can. If I missed your message please send me a friendly reminder.

I'm positive ICH here will get his dies and bullets all figured out and I'm sure many here will have some helpful advise, or atleast coments and/or opinions to help out a fellow swager.

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

[30yrcaster]

30yrcaster, you are correct, I have not purchased any die sets from Corbin (come to think of it I may have aquired a few used ones I haven't used yet), I did order and receive a manual canalure tool and severial wheels for the powered cannalure tool from Dave and was pleased with product and shipping times. I got a Sea Girt press and jackets from Richard and again was pleased with nothing but good to say.
BT
BT, I should have elaborated better. If you order dies they don't have in stock you'll wait a long time. RCE told me recently he's really backed up with orders with the bullet shortage crisis so I'm sure Dave Corbin is as well. I ordered a lot of dies from both of them and none were ever in stock and I had to wait. That's not saying something bad about them it's just that they are usually backed up. I don't know if someone wanting one of their dies lapped but not being the original purchaser would get that done in the near future with their backlog but maybe to get a new customer they would. I'm sure they'll answer and tell him.

[30yrcaster]

Has it been 2 weeks yet? Thats how long I give Brian. I understand he is busy but to suggest another maker should get back to you and fix it or he is not a good buisness man then explain what he would do... huh thats interesting.
Not sure what you're talking about? I'm not the one suggesting the OP contacting any die maker to fix his dies, that was BT. I don't think you read all the posts. Also not sure where I suggested anyone is not a good businessman. Only stated the obvious. Both Corbins are backed up with orders and don't believe from past experience they'd just stop production to work on a die that isn't from an original purchase and may be decades old. The OP said he bought them used in an estate sale.

Also, mentioning BT never answered my PM, I know he's backed up with emails but he was responding here so I thought I'd get his attention. What's wrong with that??? Before I wrote him he had posted how many emails and pm's he was wading thru. I figured by now he may have been thru most of them where I slotted in.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Actually just looked it up, got 521 messages sent to me since Jan1 and have sent 392 messages in reply.

I know how you feel. I have had 775 messages sent to me since 2/16 of this year and I have sent 689 messages since the same time. Good thing they give Vendor Sponsors larger mailboxes!

[MIBULLETS]

According to both Corbin books I have, seating the core til it sticks in the die and no more. Adding more pressure doesn't produce a better bullet but could crack the die if too much is used.

Your point forming sounds correct. It will stick on the ejection punch until the hole is smaller than the size of the punch. You have too much lead coming out the top. Like I said, unless you have a lead tip die to put a nice point on the lead, you don't want it coming out the top. Studies have shown messed up meplat affects accuracy and having lead coming out the top unshaped would do that.

In my experience this is a good starting point. Once you have a seated core measure it and compare it to a piece of lead you formed in the same die. They should measure close to the same. If it is too small just add a little more pressure and remeasure until you get there. In the Corbin style dies, if you seated core is too small your finished bullet will most likely end up small as well.

[30yrcaster]

In the Corbin style dies, if you seated core is too small your finished bullet will most likely end up small as well.
What's different in Corbin style dies from others? Isn't the core seating and point forming pretty much the same? I've only used Corbin & RCE dies.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

So I made a couple more bullets this morning and got some good measurements on them. The pressure ring measures .2238"-.2240" and the majority of the bearing surface measures right at .2230". Gonna have to load some up and see how they shoot.

[30yrcaster]

So I made a couple more bullets this morning and got some good measurements on them. The pressure ring measures .2238"-.2240" and the majority of the bearing surface measures right at .2230". Gonna have to load some up and see how they shoot.
Good for you!!
Which dies and press are you using? M-dies or newer?

[BT Sniper]

So I made a couple more bullets this morning and got some good measurements on them. The pressure ring measures .2238"-.2240" and the majority of the bearing surface measures right at .2230". Gonna have to load some up and see how they shoot.

That sounds pretty good to me. Shoot them and see what happens!

Some of my R&D dies back when I made my own reamers I had a die that was very similar, .2230 on barring surface and a pressure ring at the base closer to .2250. They shot very good!

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

I wish I could tell you what kind of dies they are. I know they are older Corbin dies. They are pictured here : http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?191603-Please-help-identifying-these-Corbin-Dies&p=2125098&viewfull=1#post2125098

As for a press I am using an RCBS A2 but will most likely start using my RCBS A press with these dies. I am getting my RCBS Ammomaster and Lee Classic cast set up and dedicated for Brians 224, 40, and 45 dies. This will include the auto eject. Just waiting on Brian to get me a total (wink, wink...LOL!) No I know you are busy Brian, no rush! LOL!

Then I plan on Setting up either My RCBS Rockchucker or RCBS JR press for my dedicated derimming press with pneumatics. Already have the air cyclinder, I just need to find the time to fabricate. What are your thoughts on the strength of the RCBS JR press for derimming??? I think it is strong enough...but I am new at this. Thanks for all the help so far!

[30yrcaster]

I wish I could tell you what kind of dies they are. I know they are older Corbin dies. They are pictured here : http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?191603-Please-help-identifying-these-Corbin-Dies&p=2125098&viewfull=1#post2125098

As for a press I am using an RCBS A2 but will most likely start using my RCBS A press with these dies. I am getting my RCBS Ammomaster and Lee Classic cast set up and dedicated for Brians 224, 40, and 45 dies. This will include the auto eject. Just waiting on Brian to get me a total (wink, wink...LOL!) No I know you are busy Brian, no rush! LOL!

Then I plan on Setting up either My RCBS Rockchucker or RCBS JR press for my dedicated derimming press with pneumatics. Already have the air cyclinder, I just need to find the time to fabricate. What are your thoughts on the strength of the RCBS JR press for derimming??? I think it is strong enough...but I am new at this. Thanks for all the help so far!
Interesting!! Thought you were using a swage press.
De-rimming is pretty easy so I'd think any press would work if the shells are annealed properly.

Does BT have ejection devices for reloading presses? I've seen the pics of Detch or Neime setups with Rockchucker presses. Is that what he uses? Are there pics anywhere?

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?181863-Chromium-Nitride-finish-for-Superior-Swage-Dies!&p=2033768&viewfull=1#post2033768

[MIBULLETS]

What's different in Corbin style dies from others? Isn't the core seating and point forming pretty much the same? I've only used Corbin & RCE dies.

Some point form dies like the old RCBS dies allowed you to build up more pressure on the finished bullet to bump them up in size, but the point form dies we are discussing here don't really use much pressure to put the ogive on and bump the last .0005 - .001 up.

[MIBULLETS]

So I made a couple more bullets this morning and got some good measurements on them. The pressure ring measures .2238"-.2240" and the majority of the bearing surface measures right at .2230". Gonna have to load some up and see how they shoot.

That's better, see how they shoot. Generally the seated core should be within .001" of finished bullet diameter then the point form die will finish it off.

[km101]

Which "Back in the Day" are you referring to?
Vernon Speer started the rimfire jacket process during WW2 when jackets or bullets for the handloader weren't available. RCBS, his company, stands for Rock Chuck Bullet Swage dies.


Sir you have your companies mixed up. RCBS was started by Fred Huntington in 1943. Vernon Speer started Speer Bullets, not RCBS.

[Lizard333]

IllinoisCoyoteHunter,
I dont know a lot but I have done a LOT of the same things your going through. My first thought was you were not seating your core properly. With my RCE dies, if I don't seet the core enough, the stick in the die. If you keep seating till you develope the "pressure ring", your core is good.

Doing 22LR brass as cores, you will sometimes split the jacket. Too much pressure. Using comercial jackets you will be able to tighten that die and blow through all of your cores and jackets. Problem with 22LR as jackets is they are all not the same. Yes, you may all sort them by weight, but some need just a little more, some less. This is where you will get the feel. You will be able to feel a core and jacket split as it gives.

The reason your ejection punch is sticking while your point forming is because your cores were not seated correctectly. It will eject your bullets every time with a properly swaged core.

Now, I get my bullets up to the final diameter in my point form. In my RCE dies, I will have a very little amount of lube when I get to this point, as too much lube and you will get divots in your finished bullet.

Im guessing when your cores are seated properly your bullets will be great. 223 final diameter for the majority of your bearing surface is fine. Your driving that bullet into a 218 diameter hole with 3 thousandth of and inch on each side of that bullet getting crammed into the grooves. Will the bullet care that onlhy 2.5 thousandths got crammed into the grooves. Probly not.

Shoot them, youll be fine. Having a properly seated core will give you better accuracy as well.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

I am seating my cores until just a touch of lead start to seep past the base punch. The seated core and jacket remain in the die after I seat the core. I found out how to remedy the bullet sticking on the ejection pin...I just raised the die body a touch and the ejector pin clears the HP and ejects the bullet just fine.

[BT Sniper]

Your on your way. Can't wait to see some range results!

Good shooting and Swage on!

BT

[MIBULLETS]

I am seating my cores until just a touch of lead start to seep past the base punch. The seated core and jacket remain in the die after I seat the core. I found out how to remedy the bullet sticking on the ejection pin...I just raised the die body a touch and the ejector pin clears the HP and ejects the bullet just fine.

So you are allowing the ejection pin to go through the hollow point and push on the lead core to eject? You can also go the other direction and let the ejection pin push on the end of the jacket by adjusting the die in and have a smaller hollow point.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

So you are allowing the ejection pin to go through the hollow point and push on the lead core to eject?

Yes.

I just did some checking and the spring that pushes my ejection pin back up out of the point form cavity may have been a little "sprung." In other words, the spring may have been leaving the tip of the punch down in the cavity, thus causing the bullet ot be formed around it when the die body was down too far. I took the spring out and stretched it out a bit so it would return the punch out of the forming cavity. Unfortunately all of my presses are boxed up as I am moving next week. Can't try it out but will report back when I do. Thanks for all the advice

[MIBULLETS]

Ok, that makes sense. Hopefully your fix cures the problem.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

OK, so I had to dig out my swage dies and see if I had fixed the problem (it was killing me!). I adjusted the point form die down until I was making the same bullets as in previous post. That is the first one on the right. It weighs 55 grains. Then I decided to try to close the HP a bit by adjusting the die body down in small increments with no luck. The middle one is the result. Then I tried a heavier core to swage a 60 grain bullet and that is the one on the right. It has a farily large HP. Any ideas on how to close the HP a bit on the 55 grainer without getting a bullet looking like the middle one (short of a specialty die to close the tip)???

Thanks!

68026

68027

[MIBULLETS]

Very small adjustments until the jacket starts to go into the the ejection punch hole like the one in the middle then just back it out until the parallel section disappears. It looks like your ejection punch is fairly large so you won't be able to close it much more without a lead tip die or pointing die

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Thats what I was thinking too. When I lowered the die in very small increments I noticed that I reached a point where the HP was as small as I was going to get it and then it started to push up into the ejection punch hole. My ejection punch is .080".

Thanks for all the help!

[Lizard333]

Send you bullet to these guys:
http://www.bullettipping.com/

I have their meplate trimmer and their products are top notch. If you mail them a couple of you best bullets they will custom make you a die if they don't already have one that will work. I'll be doing this when I get my VLD point form die from Richard.

Otherwise do as said above.

[Randy C]

:coffee:

[roysha]

Well, I've read most of the posts rather quickly so may have missed this but here is my thoughts on the subject of being slightly undersized.

Are you sure you have annealed the RF jacket so it is dead soft? I have run into the exact situation when I had a batch of cases that I had not annealed enough. That was in the days before I started using my wife's ceramic paint fire kiln to anneal. The cases that were not dead soft, invariably measured at least .0005" under .224, some were so undersize I could push into the resized 223 case by letting just the weight of the reloading press handle do it. I think it is because the stiffness of the improperly annealed brass won't allow the bullet to expand and stay at the fully expanded diameter. I know, it sounds crazy and I'm probably nuts, but I know it has happened to me enough times that I make sure the case are dead soft annealed. I have never had an issue since I started doing that.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

I heated each rimfire jacket to the point they were glowing red with a torch so I don't think this is the case. BUT, I do appreciate the input!

[Utah Shooter]

Send you bullet to these guys:
http://www.bullettipping.com/

I have their meplate trimmer and their products are top notch. If you mail them a couple of you best bullets they will custom make you a die if they don't already have one that will work. I'll be doing this when I get my VLD point form die from Richard.

Otherwise do as said above.

Now there is something worth mentioning. Great idea Lizard.

Another one is to get http://www.midwayusa.com/product/231904/hornady-lock-n-load-bullet-comparator-basic-set-with-6-inserts for making sure they are the exact length after tipping.

[aaronraad]

My first guess is that your ejection pin is too long for the pointing die, causing the jacket to close on or around the ejection pin. You shouldn't be screwing out the pointing die but instead trimming the ejection pin back.

A 0.080" pin should easily eject a pointed bullet against the lead core, let alone the jacket. My limit is 0.062" wire, as 0.055" wire penetrates >99.9% lead instead of pushing on it. This is something I learnt as a work-around for jackets too long for the press stroke/die design.

Do you know how to check the length of your ejection pin wire? Finding the right length is critical, but most swagers never have to replace the ejection pin they are supplied with. This is where variable length of the core seated jacket will screw you over ever time. Small diameter <0.040" ejction pins are possible with .224" caliber projectiles, but the seated core jacket needs to be held <0.001" in length. The length is controlled by a number of factors.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

I adjusted the return spring on my ejection pin to make sure it was not hanging down in the die when point forming. Plus when I go to eject the bullets, the ejection punch moves a little, then comes to a hard stop on the bullet. If it was forming around the bullet I don't think I would have the "play" in the pin before it contacts the meplat to eject it.

I hope this makes sense, and thanks for the advice!

[aaronraad]

I adjusted the return spring on my ejection pin to make sure it was not hanging down in the die when point forming. Plus when I go to eject the bullets, the ejection punch moves a little, then comes to a hard stop on the bullet. If it was forming around the bullet I don't think I would have the "play" in the pin before it contacts the meplat to eject it.

I hope this makes sense, and thanks for the advice!

Now I'm lost.

Shouldn't the internal ejection punch be held by the ejection pin? Any 'play' should only be a result of the fit between these two.

The 0.080" wire is the correct diameter for the pointing die?

At top-dead-centre the wire should only extend into the pointing die by about a 1/4" at most, depending on the die manufacturers specifications. An image or two of your pointing process might be useful.

[MIBULLETS]

Now I'm lost.

He is using a reloading press style die that screws into the top of the press instead of the ram and the point forming ejection punch is held out of the die by a spring instead of a pin through the press. An ejection punch of .080" is standard on these from Corbin on his type R-dies.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Sorry for being unclear...I am still new at this. Yes, I am using the reloading press style dies.

[Utah Shooter]

I think I know where this is going awry. It does not matter if his dies are for a reloading press or not. When you use say a Blackmon or SAS setup there is no spring inside the die. When you use Corbin R-Type (or Ted Smith reloading press dies) there is a spring inside only the point form die. This is used to help fight gravity of the ejection pin.

Now I have never seen the inside of one of Neimi, Ulrich or Deutsch Point Form Die (sorry aaronraad I do not remember what one you use specifically) to know if there is a spring or not. The issue however is with Corbin R-Type (or Ted Smith reloading press dies). The punch (wire) hangs down into the chamber of where the point is made therefore getting in the way of the Meplat.

One of the main reasons why I sold my old set is because it seemed that they were the only reloading press dies that made an ejection pin that pushed on the lead instead of the Meplat. It looks as though IllinoisCoyoteHunter has just adjusted the insert (that actually makes the point) out a bit so that his ejection punch not only is out of the chamber while forming but now pushes off the Meplat instead of the lead core. I would assume this is the play part he is talking about.

If that is the case IllinoisCoyoteHunter do not go out too far or else you will bend your ejection pin. Do not ask me how I know.