Any home orchard growers here?

[oldred]

It's that time of year again, the time when I prune, fertilize and start spraying my apple trees. So far this has been mostly an exercise in futility however due to fungal diseases and my fruit always ends up badly blemished with about 20% to 30% being unusable even in the best years. Cedar apple rust, Fire blight and Bitter rot are the culprits with Bitter rot being the worst by a wide margin. Cedar rust is fairly easy to control if I get to it in time but the Fire blight is one of those problems that pretty much has to run it's course, it does some damage but it's not totally destructive and only causes a small amount of loss. Bitter rot however is extremely destructive and has in the past caused a total loss of the entire crop when we had unusually wet Summers, this one is what I desperately need help with. I have been using Ortho Home Orchard spray which is a mixture of Carbaryl (Sevin), Malathion, and Captan since this is about all I have been able to find locally. If there are any successful apple growers here I would greatly appreciate any advice on this while there is still time to hopefully make a difference this year.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've been planting fruit and apple trees since 1993.
I had several Honeycrisp apple trees...probably too many.
I got the codling moth problem, they love the honeycrisp. you can't spray for them. They lay there eggs in the blossom, the same time the bees are pollinating. Then the apple grows around the eggs til they hatch, and the worm eats some apple and chews it's way out. Spraying a soap solution is suppose to help and not discourage the bees...didn't help me, I was probably already too infested. They just can thicker each year no matter what I did...til my apple harvest was 90+% infected. I may have had some fungus problems also. I tried different sprays, mixing my own from recipes by local orchards and some organic coddling moth traps with ferimones...nothing really worked once I was infected. So, what I started doing about 7 years ago and am continuing is diversity. I dug up and sold all but two of my best honeycrisp trees.. Now I have planted 3 cherry trees, two pear trees, a firecracker crabtree, and one other apple tree "duchess of odenburg" an very old variety.

I think too many of one variety attracts one variety of insect and they thrive and become infested. also I have learned ...and work hard at ...making the environment difficult for insects and fungus to thrive. Now when I prune, I prune hard...as you can see in the photo's I clip off 50% or more of the buds and twigs (water spouts). especially in the middle of the tree, you want air flow so the insects are blown out. I also quit using chemicals...I do things to attract birds..water bath, the right kind of flowers. I want the birds eating the bugs that remain. Also any fruit that drops, get it out of there right away...the bugs love that rotting fruit...same with fallen leaves, get 'em out of there. keep grass cut short. My apple trees are producing less infested fruit...I see a change, but it's slow to happen. Oh the birds also love the cherries too, I gotta fight to get enough for make my Tart cherry ale. But, the birds are good to have.

Photos taken today, after yesterdays 9" of wet snow, it's settled some already. I had a trailer load of clipping from those just those two apple trees 2 weeks ago.
my two remaining honey crisp trees
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/honeycrisptreesAPR2013_zps92940f46.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/JonB_in_Glencoe/media/honeycrisptreesAPR2013_zps92940f46.jpg.html)

Cherry tree, and two pear trees
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/cherryandpearAPR2013_zps8a529d4d.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/JonB_in_Glencoe/media/cherryandpearAPR2013_zps8a529d4d.jpg.html)

[Swamp Man]

I do not grow fruit trees but am a flower,tree & shrub grower as well as a plant hybridizer I work mostly with daylilies palms and a few others. One thing I can tell you is if you grow only one type of anything you end up with what's called a monoculture which will cause you to have more pest & fungus. If you must use fungicides make sure to use at least two different chemicals and alternate them or the fungus will build up resistant to the chemical the same holds true for pesticides. The best thing you can do is plant a few different types of apples and a few other types of fruit trees and plants. Then drop all chemicals and give it time for nature to build up it's own eco system.

[wch]

I do not grow fruit trees but am a flower,tree & shrub grower as well as a plant hybridizer I work mostly with daylilies palms and a few others. One thing I can tell you is if you grow only one type of anything you end up with what's called a monoculture which will cause you to have more pest & fungus. If you must use fungicides make sure to use at least two different chemicals and alternate them or the fungus will build up resistant to the chemical the same holds true for pesticides. The best thing you can do is plant a few different types of apples and a few other types of fruit trees and plants. Then drop all chemicals and give it time for nature to build up it's own eco system.

Excellent tips!
Thanks.

[waksupi]

I wonder how it would work to spray with dormant oil, after the blossom has dropped, but before the apple has started to form? Might be worth trying on one branch for a season.

[Bad Water Bill]

Years ago my grandfather had a 200 acre golden delicious orchard. He also kept some chickens.

Each fall he would put chicken ???? in a 55 gal bbl and fill with water. After aging for a couple weeks the FERTILIZER was dispersed around each tree.

Beautiful blue ribbon ORGANIC apples every year.

Might be worth looking into as how it worked. And his fertilizer was FREE.

[Swamp Man]

I wonder how it would work to spray with dormant oil, after the blossom has dropped, but before the apple has started to form? Might be worth trying on one branch for a season.

No you only want to spray a dormant oil when the tree is totally dormant. I forgot to mention this earlier but there is a natural oil called Neem oil that can be sprayed on the trees up until harvest it is a natural pesticide and fungicide that's totally safe for food crops. You can get Neem oil at almost any garden shop or big box stores like Lowes.

[44man]

Trees die here for no reason that I can find. Oaks and all kinds of others. I planted all kinds of trees and they start and die.
My peach and plum trees got brown mold and I sprayed all the time but to no good, lost them all. Lost a pear last year.
I tried to get some beech going and might have one that will make it.
I have seen red oaks 2' in diameter die in a year, rot and fall. If I walk my neighbors lands, there are so many trees down you need to follow deer trails to get through.
Walnut seems to do good but lightning took one and a white oak. Maple will grow.

[Swamp Man]

Trees die here for no reason that I can find. Oaks and all kinds of others. I planted all kinds of trees and they start and die.
My peach and plum trees got brown mold and I sprayed all the time but to no good, lost them all. Lost a pear last year.
I tried to get some beech going and might have one that will make it.
I have seen red oaks 2' in diameter die in a year, rot and fall. If I walk my neighbors lands, there are so many trees down you need to follow deer trails to get through.
Walnut seems to do good but lightning took one and a white oak. Maple will grow.

Are you transplanting from containers,If so how deep have you been planting them? What time of the year are you planting? Sounds like they are either being planted to deep or you are getting air pockets under the root balls. Sounds like your neighbors trees may have borer. Here is a link you can check to get help with ag problems they can tell you what type of pest and when to plant in your area and other info. http://www.csrees.usda.gov/Extension/

[oldred]

Well for sure fertilizer is not my my problem and fortunately I don't have coddling moths (YET, but knowing my luck I bet there is a hoard of them headed this way!). I have tried Neem oil to no avail on the fungal problem although it did an excellent job for insects, I was just hoping someone had a trick they were using that works better than the consumer grade home orchard spray.

44man, I can assure you that the peach tree problem you had (Brown Rot it's called) is common and in areas where it is prevalent it's uncontrollable by normal consumer grade products no matter what pesticide makers might claim. I tried EVERYTHING available for my peach and nectarine trees and still had the same results as you, a guy from UT ag was here and just pretty much told me that when it's that bad in an area it's a waste of time and money trying to deal with it. I got rid of the stone fruits and planted more apple trees in their place and now I am facing what seems to be a losing battle on them also. I have one apple type (Pristine) that has natural immunity to bitter rot but fire blight and cedar rust are worse on those trees so they are still a problem. I think I am going to buy some Captan powder and up the Captan level in the orchard spray, I have been searching on the net' for Captan toxicity problems and apparently increasing the level in the spray 10% to 20% should not be a problem at all-but will it help????

[trapper9260]

For the way it sounds to me after you said about walnut to grow better.Havr you had the other trees near the walnuts or have there been walnuts been growen there before because once you have walnuts grow in one place that you have very little other trees or plants to grow there due to the acid that is from the walnuts.There is alot of black walnuts grow here and you can not grow anything else after but walnuts .hope this helps some

[Swamp Man]

Well for sure fertilizer is not my my problem and fortunately I don't have coddling moths (YET, but knowing my luck I bet there is a hoard of them headed this way!). I have tried Neem oil to no avail on the fungal problem although it did an excellent job for insects, I was just hoping someone had a trick they were using that works better than the consumer grade home orchard spray.

44man, I can assure you that the peach tree problem you had (Brown Rot it's called) is common and in areas where it is prevalent it's uncontrollable by normal consumer grade products no matter what pesticide makers might claim. I tried EVERYTHING available for my peach and nectarine trees and still had the same results as you, a guy from UT ag was here and just pretty much told me that when it's that bad in an area it's a waste of time and money trying to deal with it. I got rid of the stone fruits and planted more apple trees in their place and now I am facing what seems to be a losing battle on them also. I have one apple type (Pristine) that has natural immunity to bitter rot but fire blight and cedar rust are worse on those trees so they are still a problem. I think I am going to buy some Captan powder and up the Captan level in the orchard spray, I have been searching on the net' for Captan toxicity problems and apparently increasing the level in the spray 10% to 20% should not be a problem at all-but will it help????
I'm not sure if you will be about to get it or not but Eagle 20 EW may work for you.

[44man]

For the way it sounds to me after you said about walnut to grow better.Havr you had the other trees near the walnuts or have there been walnuts been growen there before because once you have walnuts grow in one place that you have very little other trees or plants to grow there due to the acid that is from the walnuts.There is alot of black walnuts grow here and you can not grow anything else after but walnuts .hope this helps some
Walnut will ruin other plants and kill some, mutate some so I am very careful. I stay far away and never get walnut leaves or sticks near.
We are next to an old limestone Quarry and have a lot of lime in the ground.
Some trees grow for 50 to 100 years and just die.

[Wayne Smith]

Bird manure is a very high nitrogen fertilizer. We raised layers when I was a kid. Put it on the fields dry. Shoveled it out of three floors of the barn in Maine dry, down into the spreader. My point is that it is not adequate as a complete fertilizer.

[Bad Water Bill]

Wayne

It was NOT used as a fertilizer. He used it against critters and other stuff that ruined the looks of the apple. Last time I talked to him about it was about 1967 so things are a little foggy as to how,what fore and exactly why it worked.

He did have BLUE RIBBONS from the California State Fair hanging in his refrigerated storage building.

His frozen golden delicious cider was a real pleasure to drink as well. Just do not drink to much in any 24 hour period on your drive back from his orchard. :bigsmyl2:

[Kull]

Here's what I have going on. Five pear trees and two apple. I have no idea what I'm doing. Only started taking an interest in them in the last couple years. These were horribly neglected. By me for years, and longer with the people who lived here before.

http://i.imgur.com/rcvcamy.jpg

Only thing I've been doing is pruning them and trying to keep the leaves raked up from underneath. Pruning techniques seem to be a hot topic with a bunch of different camps or schools of thought. At least from the people that I've talked to. I go with prune for height at the end of summer early fall when the leaves are still on, and prune for structure (thinning, etc) at the end of winter early spring.

[Marvin S]

Im starting to have a big problem with Japanese beetles eating the leaves of my stella cherry trees, plus some of the problems already mentioned.

[Bad Water Bill]

There are several sprays for them. They were eating ALL all of the leaves off of the grape vines and all of the roses.

I went to Home Depot and bought a Japanese Beetle spray. Mixed it up as directed and marched out to the grape vines with MURDER in my eyes.:bigsmyl2:

Hit a beetle and it DRT. sprayed the whole fence full of vines then moved to the roses.

That was 4 years ago. A few have tried to have lunch again but their meal seemed to disagree with them.

[oldred]

Im starting to have a big problem with Japanese beetles eating the leaves of my stella cherry trees, plus some of the problems already mentioned.

Ah, the dreaded Jap beetle! Don't make the mistake I did and hang traps with lures for them, I did that several years ago and it seemed the more traps I put out the more beetles I had! :mad: Turned out that was exactly what was happening and doing this will actually increase the numbers of live beetles feeding on your plants instead of reducing the numbers, as the guy from the ag dept told me "it's hopeless trying to catch enough of them and setting traps with lures simply causes more of them to congregate in the area thus making the problem worse". I had good luck with the above suggested Neem oil and Carbaryl (Sevin) when dealing with the Jap beetle problem, theres very few plants those little suckers won't eat.

[Swamp Man]

Here's what I have going on. Five pear trees and two apple. I have no idea what I'm doing. Only started taking an interest in them in the last couple years. These were horribly neglected. By me for years, and longer with the people who lived here before.

http://i.imgur.com/rcvcamy.jpg

Only thing I've been doing is pruning them and trying to keep the leaves raked up from underneath. Pruning techniques seem to be a hot topic with a bunch of different camps or schools of thought. At least from the people that I've talked to. I go with prune for height at the end of summer early fall when the leaves are still on, and prune for structure (thinning, etc) at the end of winter early spring.
Go back to my first post on this thread and you will know why they are working out for you as they are.

[Marvin S]

The Jap beetle is the only thing I have found that eats okra leaves. I suppose the war is on with these things now.