Sand in the mix?

[Colt .45]

Hey all,

I thought I'd found 'the lifetime supply' at my range. It's a lead only an indoor range with a slanted steel slab that drops the rounds down into sand. I asked if I could dig out the lead from the backstop and they said 'go nuts, take all you want' (for free no less). The problem is that when I talked to a few old timers at the range who cast they said that the silica sand in the backstop would melt into the lead and be impossible to get out and would ruin barrels.


I'm fairly sure that the sand won't melt into the lead, and I would think that proper fluxing would get the sand out right? So who's right here? Should I be using the lead or avoiding it?

Thanks!

[fcvan]

If you do a good melt and flux with sawdust or some other good fluxing agent, you should be fine. Sand won't melt at 700 degrees and is much less dense than lead or alloy. The sand will float to the suface but be sure to scrape the sides with a spoon or ladle from the bottom up. Lead will push debris to the sides or even the bottom but the sand won't be suspended in the mix.

The last time I did a bulk smelt I used a propane burner and a stainless steel ladle with a side pour spout sort of like a gravy ladle. The handle is about 12" which I held with pliers to get my gloved hand even further from the melt. When pouring into the I got mold it basically poured from the bottom of the ladle in that and dross stayed on top of the alloy. You should be able to get good clean ingots with good fluxing and stirring. Good luck

P.S. I have used hundreds of pounds of reclaimed range lead dug from a very dirty sandy berm. You should be fine

[Springfield]

If this is true how do they get all that dirt out of the lead when they dig it out of the ground originally? I had the owner of a gunshop tell me Wheelweights make terrible bullets because of all the dirt that gets on them. Old wive's tales from people who have never cast a bullet, usually.

[Colt .45]

thanks fcvan, that's what I thought. I've got a large old pressure cooker pot & propane burner that I use to smelt down wheel weights so I'll probably use that to clean the lead through the first time.

Edit:

Yeah Springfield that is why I was hesitant. I figured to check in here for a definitive answer first..

[45-70 Chevroner]

Hey all,

I thought I'd found 'the lifetime supply' at my range. It's a lead only an indoor range with a slanted steel slab that drops the rounds down into sand. I asked if I could dig out the lead from the backstop and they said 'go nuts, take all you want' (for free no less). The problem is that when I talked to a few old timers at the range who cast they said that the silica sand in the backstop would melt into the lead and be impossible to get out and would ruin barrels.


I'm fairly sure that the sand won't melt into the lead, and I would think that proper fluxing would get the sand out right? So who's right here? Should I be using the lead or avoiding it?

Thanks!
The guy you mentioned is probably the same guy that we all incounter at some time or another that says lead of any kind will wear you barrel out with or with out the silica sand. I, like the other guys just clean the lead by fluxing and cleaning the sides and bottom of the pot to dislodge the impurities that will float to the surface. It's nice to have a ready sorce of lead.

[rintinglen]

Sand melts at something in excess of 1700 degrees. Lead melts at somewhere around 650 degrees. Properly fluxed and skimmed, that reclaimed lead should be utterly sand free. Great score!

[felix]

As for practical purposes, any hard residue remaining in well-cleaned lead will smooth your barrel internals. The only thing that wears barrels as far as we are concerned is HEAT caused by pressure. Low pressure rounds (10-20K psi/cup) will make a barrel last as long as 22LR barrels. BR (bench rest) rounds (65K+ psi/cup) will take out a barrel for competitive work within 1000 rounds. ... felix

[TheGrimReaper]

Sand floats in lead. Skim off.

[William Yanda]

quote-old timers at the range who cast they said that the silica sand in the backstop would melt into the lead.
When I first heard this, I thought those old timers want to keep that source for themselves. Thinking some more, if they want to believe that, let them. High School science was a long time ago, but the melting point of silica is way above lead.
Think about gold trapped in quartz. Molten gold under pressure was forced into the cracks in quartz and lead melts at a lower temp than gold.

[blackthorn]

+++ on the flux and skim. You should get good clean lead. On an aside---I hope the pressure cooker pot you are using to smelt is made of steel and not Aluminum!

[mdi]

If this is true how do they get all that dirt out of the lead when they dig it out of the ground originally? I had the owner of a gunshop tell me Wheelweights make terrible bullets because of all the dirt that gets on them. Old wive's tales from people who have never cast a bullet, usually.
Yes, I agree...

[fcvan]

An old pressure cooker! Argh! That is unless its no longer good as a pressure cooker I guess. The last time I smelted with a 3lb coffee can. The propane stove is industrial strength and the cam is still fine. I had a sheet metal shroud around the can to help focus the heat to the bottom and sides. Just so you'd know, I got 80lbs of ingots from a 3lb can. I had a lot to do so I would fill, pour ingots to halfway and then refill. Several hundred pounds went way faster than I thought it would. I used old ground walnut polishing media as flux and it worked great!

[trixter]

Sand floats in lead. Skim off.


What he said.

I have been recovering lead from out 'traps' and I always flux it with Ponderosa pine sawdust and the sand comes to the surface as I stir it in with a paint stirring stick, then skim. Works every time.

I love this hobby, gimme more, gimme more!

[ukrifleman]

Sand floats in lead. Skim off.

Exactly!
Wash off your range lead with a hose, let it dry then cast into ingots, remembering to flux and remove the dross from the surface before pouring.
Flux and skim any impurities again before casting any bullets and you are good to go.
ukrifleman.

[BubbaJon]

I bought some range lead and it had sand in it. It did NOT flux out with beeswax. Finally tried the pine sawdust method and after MANY fluxings and making dang sure I scraped the sides as mentioned I finally got it out. Moral of the story; cleaning up front will pay big dividends when you smelt.

[BubbaJon]

The last time I smelted with a 3lb coffee can. The propane stove is industrial strength and the cam is still fine.
Ummm The only coffee can I've ever used was soldered together and come apart right fast with molten lead. This was when I was 10 and I got tanned by mom good for lead all over her range. ;)

[fredj338]

I use quite a bit of range lead dug out of the club berm. Flux properly, it's great known bullet alloy. I like sawdust as wel for flux. Of course the less sand you put in the less you have to flux out.

[Colt .45]

I bought some range lead and it had sand in it. It did NOT flux out with beeswax. Finally tried the pine sawdust method and after MANY fluxings and making dang sure I scraped the sides as mentioned I finally got it out. Moral of the story; cleaning up front will pay big dividends when you smelt.

That may explain it, I use sawdust as a flux and the old timers at the range swore by using beeswax.

Thanks for all the replies everyone, just out of curiosity though I think the pressure cooker base pot may be aluminum, it didn't have any coating on it so it fit the bill of a first round smelt pot...

[theperfessor]

Aluminum pots will come apart sooner or later at smelting temperatures. And without warning.

[shadowcaster]

Aluminum pots will come apart sooner or later at smelting temperatures. And without warning.

Yes they will! You will be much better off with cast iron or a Stainless steel pot. Or, get some well casing and some steel plate and make your own custom pot.

Shad