A random thought on history and cast boolits

[RoyEllis]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in a conversation with my grandsons today it occurred to me that every war fought on American soil has been done with cast lead bullets, jacketed didn't come into play til many years after the Civil War. I guess not a particularly important thought, just an interesting bit of trivia related to our sport.

[Jeff82]

Nice observation. You could also add that all of this was done without the power of the modern bottle neck rifle cartridge. I believe the Brown Bess musket had muzzle energy of about 1,000 flbs, and the external ballistics were more akin to a pistol round than a modern rifle.

[Harter66]

Was the 30-40 jacketed before 1912 ? As a passing point of intrest Guam, Phillipins and most of the Pacific holdings were annexed in 1898 ,as a passing point of intrest only.

The 45 cal. ML actually gives the 45-70 a hard run and at the muzzle (under best conditions) the 50cal PRB knocks on the 06's door. Based on my limited expirience and reading that may have come from limited sources refencing reproduction arms.

It is amazing to note that 10s of millions of game heads were taken w/those "weak under powered" BP rifles/muskets w/them no good bbl fouling cast lead bullets. Nevermind the documented 1000yd + kills and 7 wars before 1898. I can't find any fault w/a boolit that has 123 year combat record for US and another at least 300 before that. We should be so lucky to see convienences last so long.

[freebullet]

I don't want shot with either. I know lead round nose 9mm goes in deep.

[runfiverun]

compare a 50 cal muzzle loader ball weight and muzzle velocity to a 44 mags normal boolit weight and muzzle velocity.

[Wayne Smith]

Was the 30-40 jacketed before 1912 ? As a passing point of intrest Guam, Phillipins and most of the Pacific holdings were annexed in 1898 ,as a passing point of intrest only.

The 45 cal. ML actually gives the 45-70 a hard run and at the muzzle (under best conditions) the 50cal PRB knocks on the 06's door. Based on my limited expirience and reading that may have come from limited sources refencing reproduction arms.

It is amazing to note that 10s of millions of game heads were taken w/those "weak under powered" BP rifles/muskets w/them no good bbl fouling cast lead bullets. Nevermind the documented 1000yd + kills and 7 wars before 1898. I can't find any fault w/a boolit that has 123 year combat record for US and another at least 300 before that. We should be so lucky to see convienences last so long.

The -06 replaced the Krag. That was 1906, or to be precise, 1903 with the 30-40 bullet. US Army troops used the Krag in Cuba. So yes, you are right.

[geargnasher]

Let's hope there isn't another war between the states, because it will likely also be fought with cast, at least on one side. Maybe that's what they're afraid of.

Gear

[429421Cowboy]

What about the fighting through Aleutians in Alaska against the Japanese in WWII? Would seem that alot if '06, .50 BMG and .45 ACP was expended there!

[.22-10-45]

The .30 U.S...AKA .30-40 Krag used a 220 gr. cupro-nickle jacketed bullet. The .236 U.S.N. also used a jacketed 112gr. bullet.

[BruceB]

There's certainly no doubt that cast bullets played a huge role in our conflicts through history.

I was very interested, however, to discover that millions of Minie' balls were SWAGED by machinery in arsenals during the Civil War.

There are references to a production rate of 3500 per hour, from a single machine. A production-line of such machines could really pile up a lot of bullets in short order!

[shooter93]

We're still fighting the same war the Founders did....the shooting part just hasn't started up again....yet.

[Wayne Smith]

True, and the fighting in Hawaii, as well. Lot of 50BMG expended in Pearl Harbor.

Was only thinking of USArmy combat. Most of the Aleutians fighting was Air, (yes, USArmy then) and US Navy involvement. I don't think the Army ever got into direct combat with the Japanese there.

[Thumbcocker]

Fwiw I have seen pictures of cast lead sling projectiles that were thousands of years old. They looked like mini footballs.

[Bad Water Bill]

Lets not forget the millions of bison killed with lead pills.

Nor all of the wars against natives of this country.

[TXGunNut]

I've always felt that casting boolits and shooting the rifles and revolvers designed for them is like shaking hands with our forefathers. Not many folks get to touch history, many of us do it every day.

[Harter66]

Tx,
Yep , it lets me shoot my grandfathers 38 Smith and a 61'Colt and 58'Remmy.

Wayne,
Phillipene insurection too .

The Thomson manual claims shows 2000 fps 1600 ftlbs for the 50 Hawken and a 175 gr PRB 100gr ffg. With 80gr ffg it promises 1800 fps 1300 ftlbs. I don't know the 44 that well ,but my 45 Colts RBH 7.5 will only go about 1200 fps and hi/mid 500's ft lbs.