Dun et! .45-120 on order.. 36" Oct barrel....Load?

[Nose Dive]

Ok gents... here is our task.....

A new 1874 36" barrelled rifle. NEED DATA....

I need load data,,, boolit design... powder... powder charge... primer... cases.. all you got... LAY IT ON ME!

I have a 45-70 and love it. But, with new found wealth..ordered and custom 45-120 and need to know what boolit design you like,,,powder charger you like...any info and reference data you may have.

thanks guys....

Nose Dive.

Cheap, Fast, Good. Kindly pick two.

[Don McDowell]

Powder would be either KIK 1.5 or Goex 1f, maybe some of their new Olde Eysnford 1.5.
Primer cci large rifle.
Cases, Jamison if they're in stock someplace, or Norma (other than that you're pretty much out of luck)
Bullet, Lyman postel ,rcbs 82084, or a 500 gr patched bullet in the creedmoor design.

[johnson1942]

your going to get a lot of data and most likely they will all be right on. with that im going to state my thoughts and experience on what you asked. first of all its a dream gun for most of us that read your post. i really believe in long barrels and ill give you the reasons why. first is easiest, long sight radius. second is it will burn the black powder charge very well. now some might post a reply that you may be shooting a slower ft. per sec out of a long barrel like that than if you had a 32 inch barrel and he may be correct. however their is something to consider and good can come out of that. it is a more stabe very close ft. per sec. of each round. if you burn all the powderand it even tapers off some the result is from shot to shot the velocity diff from round to round will be very close, give they are loaded very well. if the gun is 1/18 twist shoot between a 500 grain and 550 grain bullet. however their is another factor. a wyoming shooter called me the other day and was totaly frustrated. he just got a new shilo sharps 45/110. he tried shooting the same bullet in it as his shilo sharps 45/70, which is a tackdriver. you can guess, it didnt work. well 65 grains of black powder is a lot diff than 100 to 110 grains. i can not tell you what cast bullet to use or the lead to tin ratio, others will have to do that because: you gun is really made for paper patching the bullet. a 550 grain paper patched bullet with a .60 thousands fiber wad between the bullet and powder or but not both, a wool wad instead of the fiber wad. some use a grease cookie behind it all too but i just like wipeing between rounds with a damp patch. you can get a lot of info off of this site on blackpowder paper patching. i use a .440 bullet and two wraps of number nine and she is really accurate in front of 120 grains of 2f black. now their is some thing else to consider, i would never shoot smokeless in your cartridge but is can be done with fills ect. but it is risky. how ever their is only one black power substitute that shoots consistantly accurate in my tests and that is blackhorn 209. if you use it, use a drop tube and dont compress. i hate to say it but it proves to be just as accurate as real black, which is very accurate. it is 15 percent more powerfull, for lack of a better word, than black powder. it is usually available locally and shoots quite clean. you have a dream gun and it should be a match winner, research all the info you get, and dont over complicate it. remember this next statement. the last 1000 yard match i watched the winner wiped between each round. he was lying on the ground, he would shoot, roll slightly left, open his breech and push a damp patch from the breech though the bore. roll back into postion load and shoot, easily won the match. wipeing is a easy thing to get used to a takes a lots of the kinks out of shooting. thanks for your post, have fun and keep us posted

[bigted]

ill look back over my loads and report them to you...just a word of caution however...use a very good lube that will stick to the task at hand for the entire '36' inches. even if this means to use a lube cookie to add to the lube in the boolits grooves. the 120 case is custom made for a cookie load.

I can tell you that this case will give you everything you look for...and then some. this is no sissy rifle unless it be in a 12+ pound gun...speaking of gun...you didn't mention the builder of your new rifle.

the first rifle I had in the 45-120 was a 8.5 pound browning hunter...re-chambered to the 120 case from a 45-70 chamber... with the deep crescent but plate. if held wrong you will have to get your clavicle re-located back into the original spot God meant it to be in. the first load I used was and still is as a useful load is...

Norma case.
cci 200 large rifle primer.
120 grains GOEX Cartridge powder
.060 Walters veggie wad.
Lyman # 457125 mould that throws a 520 grain government style boolit.
I didn't but I recommend using SPG lube on the boolit.
compress the powder charge with the veggie wad with a compression tool before seating the boolit.

another load is as such;

norma case.
cci 200 primer.
110 grains Cartridge powder.
.003 inch wax paper over powder slip ...to keep the cookie from bleeding into the powder.
.250 inch thick lube cookie [SPG] or [50/50 Vaseline/bee wax].
.060 veggie wad.
Lyman # 457643 430ish grain flat point boolit lubed with SPG lube.
compress the powder with the wax paper together so the boolit will seat to proper depth to chamber at or back off the rifling around .020 inch.

this should be a great hunter.

I got others including paper patch loads and greesers in various configurations. ill need to look at my records so as to get em rite tho.

here is hoping that you enjoy your 120 as much as I do mine.

[Mike Brooks]

I'd probably want a gun in that caliber to go 16 to 18 lbs if I were going to shoot it much. My 11 lb. 45-90 is plenty gun for me!

[Doc Highwall]

Even Kenny W. here who has a lot of experience stopped at 45-110 and would probably recommend something a little smaller. In his writings here he has mentioned the problems of going to 45-110 with fouling control. He has even had a 25 pound rifle made in 45-110 to tame the recoil.

I would ask you what are you going to use this for? My long range black powder cartridge is a 45-90 with a 34” barrel.

Something else to consider is the weight of the rifle and recoil that you will have to endure. I am older myself and if I buy a special gun I would want something I will be able to use till I die, taking into consideration both recoil and the cost to shoot on a fixed income.

[Yellowhouse]

Back in the 1880's William Pickett wrote extensively for Forest and Stream relating his tests of the 3.25 case. He reported there was no useful advantage over the 2 7/8 case which was commonly loaded with 120 gr of powder. Those ODG were pretty knowledgable.

[NickSS]

I know a lot of guys who bought 45-120 rifles over the years (including myself) but know of none that shoot them regularly and most have either re-barreled them or they have become safe queens. Most serious target shooters stop at the 45 2.4 or 2.6 case and I have several friends who shoot the 45 2 7/8 case for hunting big critters with black powder. However, everyone deserves a dream and a 45 3.25" case certainly is impressive but I sold mine after shooting it about 100 times and figured I had impressed everyone with how big the case is.

[Doc Highwall]

I just want to see the look on their face when the look at the target.

[country gent]

Doc I perfer 2 f goex in my 45 2.4 ( 45 90) the big thing is start with a Stack up of components that leaves no air space under the bullet. With my Black powder loads and 34" barrels Im running a 3/16" grease cookie of emmerts improved lube with a paper patched 500 grn baco swaged bullet. .030 card wad over powder and compress powder, grease cookie and another .030 card wad to protect bullet base from lube. My wads are cut .480 dia to insure a good seal in the case. Im currently using Remington 9 1/2 primers with an aluminum foil disk between primer and pocket. I use the Baco swaged bullets right now until I decide what mould I want for a Paper patched bullet. I also get good results from Lymanns Postell bullet at 535 grns and the 457125 round nose (510grn) is no slouch either. Keep the stack up right and work up

[Doc Highwall]

I have a Browning 1885 Black powder Cartridge gun in both 45-70 with the 30" barrel and the 45-90 with the 34" barrel, and a Winchester 1885 Black powder cartridge in 45-90 with a 34" barrel.

I have Starline cases with Swiss 1.5 and a Steve brooks 542 grain bullet to shoot. Mostly I have been using AA-5744 powder getting things ready, unfortunately I have many irons in the fire and just got a new one having to go back to school for 2 years for Laser-Optics. At least I have something to look forward to and will not get bored.

[EDG]

To make a proper decision on one of these rifles you probably need to research the loading data, brass, bullet, twist, chamber and lube issues first. After you slog through all of this you may find you have already ordered the wrong rifle combo. I would proceed with the rifle build but put the barrel and chamber on hold until you get this figured out. I have one rifle with a 34" barrel and it is a pain to get into the safe and it fits none of my gun cases. Add the 45-120 PIA chamber and brass situation and you will probably regret your choice.
If you want your new rifle to be special make the wood and sights special.
Don't make the chamber a PIA to use or load for and the same goes for the barrel length.

[montana_charlie]

Like the guy from Ohio, I shoot a 45/90. Also like him, I don't have a 45/120.
So, I won't try to give you any advice other than ...
It is helpful to know your actual chamber depth, and to match your case length to that.

CM

[Nose Dive]

Thanks Gents... Plenty to read and plenty to learn for sure. I wanted the .120 for, well, for fun. I have a 45-70 lever and carry it in Alaska. I want to take a 'great' bear with my own .45 water dropped boolit with 'my reload' and can for a brief period, say 6 to 8 shots, take a pounding. I have a 'pad' for my shoulder, and indeed, it helps. The weight of the rifle will be high. Really as already stated 'too high' to carry around the woods looking for a prize to take home. But, I will have a guide and stout young man, (my son) who will be chored with the carry. I have already been offered more than I paid for, so, if I wean off the beating, I am not hurt financially. But we will see what we will see. It is not due for another couple of months or so, and will fill the time reading and learning. The long octagonal, heavy barrel will help a bit with the recoil, I hope. I was in the pipe yard yesterday and cut a 3/4" dia.- 36" piece of sch 160 cs pipe to begin to twirl to get used to the length and weight. I plan on pouring it full of lead to add to the heft. I have a couple of messed up 6.5x55 Swede stocks and will glue or tape the slug on one of them and start practicing carry and balance.

Anyway, Thanks again everybody. I am buying equipment, powders and cases to 'practice' reloading for this thing. Will send a few down range with my buddies '120 to test performance. His reloading procedure for his load is as detailed as it is complex. But, he has time and loves to stay busy so, to each his own.

Again, thanks to all. When I get this thing, will post a few pics to 'show it off'.

Nose Dive

Cheap, Fast, Good. Kindly pick two.

[bigted]

looking back for a post I found yours and wonder if you ever landed your 45-120? if so do you enjoy yours as much as I do mine? mine is a Shiloh Hartford with a heavy 30 inch barrel. just curious is all. I have found a very accurate load in smokless if you still use it and would be tickled to share it with you if you still are interested.

[sharpsguy]

You will be a LOT happier with that rifle as a hunting gun if it has a 30 inch barrel. 36--no way.

[deronair]

where do I purchase a 36 in. 45-120 barrel?

[Don McDowell]

Op probably has one he'ld like to get rid of by now...

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Never mind the rifle, exactly were did you find this new wealth. I have a safe full of nice single shot rifles. What I could use is some more wealth, new or old.

[Toymaker]

Heavy duty shoulder pad.

[bigbore52]

Nose Dive

Don't be deterred in your choice - you will find that most comments either negative/positive are expressed by those who offer an opinion based on their own views - I would imagine not from personal experience with the set up your after - it's not your common rifle at all.

Equally I am in that category but I do have a 45-120 with a 34" barrel and tell you that if you load it to the maximum 120 gn of FFG, then it will kick a tad but so will just about any large bore rifle loaded to the max.

I load mine with 100 gns FFg using the Postell projectile which weighs out to approximately 520 gns with a 20:1 ratio of Pb to Sn....that may be slightly harder than what you need for this case and I have shot 30:1 casts that worked equally as well without any sign of leading. I chose that brew is I also load other BP rifles and use the one brew for convenience.

Johnson1942 and bigted sum it up brilliantly in previous posts on this caliber and their comments are worth filing for reference in your own load development. In my experience, settle on a reduced load to start with to gain knowledge in how your rifle will handle each load and what issues crop up as you can bet under a full load will be magnified if you aren't prepared! - work your way up slowly and I have even used a BP substitute such as Trail Boss just to see how it goes.....you can actually watch the projectile travel down range with that powder! Whatever load you chose, usual BP cautions should be followed and the loaded case should not have any air gaps.

When I have loaded 120 gns, it completely fills the case so I have placed a cardboard spacer on top of the powder underneath the projectile which I lube with Lyman Alox lube - I don't use a separate lube cookie as the Postell pill has ample grease grooves in it buy you need a spacer to keep any lube from contacting the powder, they work OK and accuracy is very good.

I have tested many assorted primers and cases but you will be limited in the cases you purchase...Norma and Bertram are the only two manufacturers to my knowledge that are readily available. You can elect to use magnum or LR primers - have tested many and found that both types work equally as well in my rifle so I use WLR primers in preference to the WMLR as the size consistency is better with the WLR.

My every day load (being 100 gns of FFg) leaves an air gap of approximately 3/8" in the case so I use a felt wads cut from felt sheets I obtain from Hardy and Hansen in the UK - if you cut your own wads they are worth bookmarking as have numerous sizes available to avoid double stacking etc (http://www.hardy-hanson.co.uk/felt_strips.htm) then a cardboard spacer over the wad underneath the lubed and sized pill which is just a habit and not really needed - the wad separates the pill from the powder. It is a very easy load to shoot, recoil is minimal and I can comfortably shoot many rounds at a time with that load.

Again, my comments are based on a 34" octo barrel and that's heavy enough not to want to lug it around much but either way, another 2" of metal at the business end will increase your weigh substantially....now whether that helps reduce the felt recoil I don't know and equally you best check your cleaning rod is long enough for the task..........good luck with your project all the same.

[oldred]

Just for the record this is an old thread and the rifle was ordered two years ago so I would suppose he has had it for a while now.