.38 Spl. automatic?

[Jim]

I have a friend at work that says his father has an automatic that his father passed down from WWII. He says it shoots .38 special ammo. I said it's prob'ly .38 super or .380. He insists it's .38 spl. and that the ammo for this automatic will go right in a .38 spl. revolver.
I kinda' think he don't know what he's talkin' about, but I thought I'd ask y'all.
Is there or was there such an automatic that is/was chambered for .38 Spl.? I'm thinkin' that since the caliber is rimmed, that ain't gonna fly.

[felix]

Model 52 Smith is a target pistol which requires a flat boolit seated 95 percent into the case. That gun could have been a combat gun, but I doubt it, at least not configured to shoot these kinds of (target) boolits. Yes, the gun could have been used for military training. ... felix

[Dale53]

Actually, many, many 1911's were converted to .38 special by a number of top notch pistolsmiths. These use ONLY full wadcutters and were and are used by NRA Bullseye shooters.

S&W had the Model 52 .38 Special wadcutter only pistol. That was and is a superb pistol.

Dale53

[felix]

Felix,

More then likely that 38 special automatic that fellow speaks of on your
forum is a National Match 1911 AMU which they made in 38 special.

Joe

[felix]

Tell your friend to take care of that thing! ... felix

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/nm.htm

[45nut]

http://www.ammo-one.com/38AMU.html

38 Army Marksmanship round. I think BruceB might have one such.

[Jim]

I'll be danged!

[Phil]

Colt also made a Gold Cup 38 Special for a while. It was a blowback design with a strange spiral flute in the chamber. The S&W M52 shot a whole lot better and Colt finally gave up on theirs. If they had made it a locked breech like the S&W maybe it would have been a different story.

Cheers,

Phil

[Scrounger]

I don't believe the military marksmanship units even existed til after WWII and Korea, much less modified any 1911s to .38 Special. That's not to say some individual gunsmith didn't do it on his own. I have my doubts about that gun.

[walltube]

Coonan Arms (now defunct?) produced a .357 Magnum auto loader. I handled one but did not have the opportunity to fire the thing. Owner seemed pleased with it. Didn't think to ask if he tried .38 Spl. in it.

[Buckshot]

.............Our old rangemaster Ken was given a 1911 with "S8 Special" and centered under that was "38 AMU". He was also gifted with two 3 gallon cans of 38 Special WC ammo the guy had loaded. I never saw Ken produce any real spectacular groups with it though. Or if he did I don't recall them.

...............BUckshot

[EMC45]

Either way it is a desirable pistol (Colt or S&W).

[Four Fingers of Death]

Didn't Clarks do lots of conversions for bullseye shooters?

I'm interested in the new 952, but I can't imagine them shooting like the old 52 and I can't imagine S&W producing a gun with a model number like that and bragging how good it was unless it could shoot. They are as rare as rocking horse poop here and cost a fortune.

Anybody know how they shoot?

[BruceB]

I WISH I owned a .38 AMU (the "rimless .38 Special", for practical purposes). What we do have is a pair of S&W M52s, which we have loved since the day they arrived about 37 years ago. Utterly reliable, and VERY accurate!

Gil Hebard Guns of Illinois, still in business as far as I know, used to keep a number of fine custom target pistols on order from the premier pistolsmiths of the day, back when we started shooting Bullseye in the '60s. By doing this, he had a number of top-grade pistols constantly available without the months or years of waiting that an individual shooter would face if ordering direct from the 'smith.

Shockey, Clark, Chow and other famous names were represented in the available custom guns at Hebard's, and some were available in .38 AMU if so desired. I had a Shockey-built .45 for a while, and it was a stellar shooter.

Reliable .38 conversions of the 1911 didn't arrive until about the mid-'50s, and almost immediately killed-off the use of the revolver in NRA Bullseye "centerfire"-class shooting, at least among those with serious pretensions to championship scores. As stated earlier, this time period also saw the establishment of the military marksmanship schools, which made great contributions to the development of equipment and techniques.

The S&W 952, essentially a 9mm target pistol, has a considerable reputation for fine accuracy. I've thought about buying one of these, but the price is a bit of a choke factor. Still tempting, though. Mick, if you want to research the gun a bit, go to

www.smith-wessonforum.com

and do a search on the autoloader board. The S&W Forum is a great place to hang out, and full of excellent advice and knowledge on all things S&W. It's NOT affiliated with S&W in any way, beyond the obvious high regard for the guns made by the company. (This reminds me of ANOTHER forum, in stark contrast....over on Accurate Reloading's Big Bore forum, a simple post about Jamison rifle brass availability degenerated into threats of physical harm and apparent DEATH THREATS within about 20 posts! Good grief....! Seems just a wee bit different from our home here. There is obvious bad blood among several people there deriving from earlier encounters, but still!?!?!?)

[EMC45]

I almost got thrown out of The Mosin Nagant page for defending ones right to sporterize a milsurp rifle. They compared what I said to posting pornography or using a racist remark.:confused:

[beagle]

Sounds like a converted job. I don't know of any .38 Special autos made until about the late 50s when the bullseye shooters and theh Army MTUs started converting .38 Supers to .38 Special for their centerfire guns.

The National Match Midrange Colts were class acts as well as the M52s. I've owned both and reloaded for them. Reloading is easy but both have their quirks and the M52 is more picky than the Colt as far as seating depth. Still, they're darn nice target guns and fun plinkers.

I had a shooting partner that had a Coonan long slide .357. It was a great shooting pistol but threw your brass with .357 loads about 20 feet to the right and behind you. .38 Specials with SWC bullets fired all right in it and round nose loads functioned flawlessly and didn't throw brass near as far.

.38 AMU brass is getting far between. I have a little ratholed right now. It will shoot in the regular .38 Special as there is enough rim and my son regularly shoots it in his Python. He also shoots reloaded .38 Super in it as both cases have enough rim to headspace. Not a practice that I'd recommend or will use but it works./beagle

[Char-Gar]

The first workable coversion of a Colt Govt. Model (38 Super) to 38 Special, was done by a gunsmith in El Paso Texas named Peters. About the same time, Clark, Chow and others started to do the same things. There is some dispute about who was first, but I am convinced it was Peters.

Peters also did most of Charlie Askins pistol work, when he was in El Paso and the head Honcho shooter of the Border Patrol.

I knew Mr. Peters (can't remember his first name) when I lived in El Paso and shot one of his conversions for a time. They worked to perfection.

I once took a Smith and Wesson 559 into his shop for a trigger job. It had the SA pull from Hell. He had never worked on one before, so he turned it over in his hand a few times, took it down and pull the sear. He took it to his bench grinder and made sparks on the side of the wheel. I winched as he did it.

He took a couple of swipes with a stone and put it all together. He then tried it with his weights and it broke at a crisp 3.5 lbs. He charged me all of $7.00 for the work. This was about 1985.

He was different from most gunsmiths in that he liked to talk while he worked and if you droped a gun by and left it, it would never get done. But if you hung around he would do it while you waited.

He was one hell of a pistolsmith. He is dead now.

[Mohillbilly]

Ole boy that useta shoot 'long sidea me at the parlor had a smith auto that shot 38 special. seemed like a fun/strange gun and some what rare round these parts.I got a Grizzly that will shoot 357 with the right convertion....

[nelsonted1]

A gunshop near me has a what they claim is a clark built 38 sp in a 1911. The tag says it was built in 1959 by Clark Sr. I called Clark and asked about the pistol. I wondered if he'd have built it on a 38 Super slide and not mark it as a 38 special. The woman on the phone said probably not especially after I told her I couldn't see his name anywhere on it. She told me to take the slide off the frame and look underneath for his markings.

The pistol has a front sight overhanging the barrel by at least an inch so it clearly is a bullseye gun. It has been shot to death and very loose.

They have $900 on swearing that is cheap. I am very uncomfortable with the Clark claim.

What is that gun worth?

[JMax]

Son & Daughter Jimmy & Kay still own and work at Clark Custom. Jim Clark SR marked all of his work so what she said is correct, If it isn't marked it is probably too good to be true.