Unertl vs MVA scope mounts and Tube Lengths?

[Dragoon 45]

I realize this has been hashed over before in the forum, but after reading the previous threads I find myself still confused. I have decided to buy a scope for my BPCR, my corrected vision just isn't up to the task of seeing the Turkeys or Rams anymore. Spent over $500 on new lens for my glasses over the winter and my scores have not gotten any better.

I have talked to other scope shooters on tube length and which mounts work best. I have also talked to MVA and DZ Arms about their scope mounts, and quite frankly I am more confused than when I started. As I understand it, the DZA Unertl style mounts will give more elevation than the MVA Silhouette mounts although their Creedmoor Mount is equal in total elevation capability? When I talked to MVA they recommended their 23" scope for silhouette while DZ Arms recommendeds an 18" scope. Also there is the question of what size riser blocks to get. Local scope shooters who use MVA scopes and mounts, tell me not to get the 23" tube but to get the full length tube and as a couple of them are Master Class shooters their opinion has more than just a little bit of weight to it.

What I want is to shoot Silhouette and the occasional long range match. With some luck we may have BP Target matches going again next year. The scope will be mounted on either my Browning BPCR or my Rolling Block, both have 30" barrels.

I would like to purchase a scope and mounts before our next match in May. Can some give me a good list of the pro's and con's of each type mount and tube length? I can't seem to find any good comparisions between mounts and the recommended tube lengths for each type.

Thank You.

[Gunlaker]

If you are interested in the MVA Malcolm scope then do a search for posts by Kenny Wasserburger. He shoots long range with a 23" scope and I believe that he uses the MVA Creedmoore mounts. There are a few others using that setup too if I recall correctly.

I've got an MVA 23" with their standard mounts on a CSA 1874 in .45-70 and I like it a lot. The optics are excellent. I find it a little more difficult to use the vernier scale on it than I do on my Soule sights because the scope gets in the way of my face :-).

Chris.

[Don McDowell]

I'ld go with the 23 inch MVA on a 30 inch or shorter barrel. You can use close spacing and taller rear base to get a bit more elevation. Also would take a hard look at the MVA Winchester scope in the unertyl mounts they offer.
I would pm Kenny and pick his brain on it a little bit, and/or get ahold of Steve Rhodes, either one can give you good straight forward scope advice.

[Dragoon 45]

Thanks Don and Gunlaker for the replies.

Are those the 5X power scopes? MVA doesn't have those up on its web site and the only info I can find on them is what little is in their ads in Black Powder Cartridge News.


I'ld go with the 23 inch MVA on a 30 inch or shorter barrel. You can use close spacing and taller rear base to get a bit more elevation. Also would take a hard look at the MVA Winchester scope in the unertyl mounts they offer.
I would pm Kenny and pick his brain on it a little bit, and/or get ahold of Steve Rhodes, either one can give you good straight forward scope advice.

[Don McDowell]

Shiloh has those on their web site.

[Don McDowell]

May have misspoke on the Shiloh website, but they are in the last two catalogs.

[Boz330]

I have the 23" MVA on my Ballard and use it on my Highwall as well. Mostly silhouette but I have shot long range with it and had no problem with elevation. Missing is only fun for a little while once your eyes get to the point you just can't see the targets.

Bob

[Gunlaker]

The MVA Malcolm style scopes are 6x and their Winchester repro scopes are 5x.

Chris.

[Dragoon 45]

I called both MVA and DZ Arms today. If I order the MVA there is a 6-8 week waiting period for any of their Malcolm Scopes. When I talked to DZ Arms, Dan was not there so I talked to I believe it was his son. I was informed that they are developing a version of an early Unertl scope in 6 power that they hope to have for sale within the next three or four months that will meet the NRA BPCR Scope rules. Their scopes will be made in Oklahoma City ,except for the glass. They have the prototypes built and hope to start testing them soon.

So instead of narrowing down my choices, it just got a little more complicated.

[Don McDowell]

If the DZ scope is anywhere close to the quality of the Unertyl mounts he makes, it's going to be a good one.
I bought a set of those mounts to go with one of the Leatherwood 18 inch scopes.

[Dragoon 45]

They didn't have a price for the scopes yet, but told me the scopes would be competitive in price with the other makes. As their shop is just a little over 120 miles from my front door, I may wait a little bit before buying to see what they come up with. They also build a very good looking version of the Remington Hepburn, just wish I had the money to get one, but $3700 for a plain jane version is a little out of my league right now.


If the DZ scope is anywhere close to the quality of the Unertyl mounts he makes, it's going to be a good one.
I bought a set of those mounts to go with one of the Leatherwood 18 inch scopes.

[Don McDowell]

I've seen a couple of those rifles and if a person wants a flush handle on the side of the action, that's probably the best choice available. Altho CSA's hepburns are nice, but they are a bit spendier.

[Dragoon 45]

What height blocks did you get with the DZA mounts? I have one shooter telling me to use the same height front and back, and another telling me to use a higher block on the rear.


If the DZ scope is anywhere close to the quality of the Unertyl mounts he makes, it's going to be a good one.
I bought a set of those mounts to go with one of the Leatherwood 18 inch scopes.

[Don McDowell]

Can't remember at the moment, but I believe they were .225 in the rear and .175 in the front. I know one fella than went up to .275 or such in the rear. The thing you have to watch with going to high with the rear block you will loose the close range capability. But going with the combo suggested by DZ and BACO I can go from 200 (maybe closer I never shoot my bpcr's any closer except for the hunting guns) all the way to the 1k. I think tho that going with the next higher rear block would give a little bit more room at the top of the adjustments at the 1000 yd mark.

[Dragoon 45]

Thank You.

[Don McDowell]

Ubecha. Call back down there to DZ and get Dan on the phone, he can sure guide a fella thru a lot of this.

[country gent]

I have been thinking about mounting up one of MVAs malcom scopes on my Hepburn when it gets here. I have been pondering the blocks question and what mounts to use. With the tapered octogon barrel on this rifle I may have to wait and see what the barrel taper is to start with. My long range rifles all have 20 min bases on them to help keep scope closer to centered at 1000 yds. I have a 34" barrel on this rifle also.

[Dragoon 45]

According to his shop, he is out of town till the 23rd. I plan on calling him when he gets back.

[Hiwall55]

Mva told me when I ordered my scope that the 28 inch was selling more than all others combined. I have the 28 with their mounts on 5 different Rifle with a creedmoor mount and I shoot from 100 yds to 1000 with no trouble. with the scope,not with me