Way to go ch4d..... :( [Archive]

Reload3006

04-09-2013, 07:15 AM

being in the machining industry my entire working career. While that may seem like a pile of money to you. You have no Idea what it costs to produce that. While you may be able to get the material for around 50.00 there are several hours of machining and polishing time involved. Labor, Medical insurance (mandated by B.O.) most shop labor rates have to be close to $100 an hour to just break even. and we haven't even mentioned consumable tooling such as carbide inserts, polishing rouge Etc Etc. then while there is a demand for the dies its not a huge demand that would justify a large production setup which is where RCBS,Hornady,Lee etc can produce reloading dies less expensively. 300. for a set of swage dies is not unreasonable at all.

anotherred

04-09-2013, 01:07 PM

Duke, do you work for BT? I have and agree that his dies are great, but how about letting people make their own decision. Any one that spends more than 5 minutes on here will find info on him. And don't forget people HAVE been waiting on BTs dies almost that long themselves.

mold maker

04-09-2013, 04:06 PM

I don't work for BT either, and yes I have waited for dies.
For me not to sing the praises of BTs work would be amiss. Superior products, at reasonable price, are well worth, waiting on. If you're in a real hurry, maybe you ought, to just buy jacketed bullets, or loaded ammo.
Oh, what do you mean, you can't find them, at the local shop?

anotherred

04-09-2013, 04:39 PM

Don't get me wrong, I got some of his dies, and patiently waiting for more. I didn't mean to offend anyone, I just find it almost over bearing with every post "get BT dies".

30yrcaster

04-09-2013, 04:57 PM

If you're in a real hurry, maybe you ought, to just buy jacketed bullets, or loaded ammo.

You shouldn't have to wait forever either. I ordered a set of dies and a year later moved on to other things. Just started to use them (barely) 10 years later. I have no problem if you order something and they tell you an honest estimate when it will be done, not 3 months and a year later you have to beg for it. Not saying anyone here has done that. If it's going to take a year, let the customer know and if they want it bad enough they'll wait. Shiloh Sharps does that. I remember their wait was 1.5 years at one time and they put that on their website. Just my opinion.

JonB_in_Glencoe

04-09-2013, 04:58 PM

Don't get me wrong, I got some of his dies, and patiently waiting for more. I didn't mean to offend anyone, I just find it almost over bearing with every post "get BT dies".

While I've been a friend of Brian's for over 3 years, and bought & used his swage dies... and even tested some stuff for him when he was just starting out, I would never over state what he offers without it being a fact (and I think he will acknowledge that I am brutally honest)...and I suspect the same for everyone else that's on, what you are saying, is an "over bearing" bandwagon.

The fact is, regarding Swaging Dies and accessories. You will not get any better product for the price from another source. And no better and faster service anywhere else...at any price !!!

Now that does sound over bearing :)
Jon

Del-Ray

04-09-2013, 05:16 PM

Some good replies.

But none answer one major point. Yes, making dies can be expensive. Yep, you consume things.

But why a 100.00 increase in a week?

That does sound like gouging. I'm not saying it's wrong. I mean, if I had a business that suddenly had a captive audience since you can't find ammo or components I'd gouge my customers as well. But I'm also an *******. At least according to the wife.... I can't say for sure that's what this is, but I'm sure it's not that the cost of making them went up in one week a hundred bucks either.

If the cost of consumables have been going up, shouldn't the price have gone up in small amounts over weeks or months?

And I to am not happy with being promised one delivery date, then another, and another. Only to find a product still isn't in my hands. I will never order from corbin because of his lies. And I hope it never has to happen here.

uscra112

04-09-2013, 06:04 PM

Jeeeez, every time a price goes up it's gouging. The only situation where gouging can take place is when the seller has a monopoly.

Railroads gouged farmers in the 19th century. evilBay gouges. Hospitals gouge. (Yes, hospitals are often monopolies - they collude to prevent competition via licensing boards that they control).

If a seller has too many orders, he should raise prices until the order book balances his ability to produce. Who in his right mind will let a huge backlog build up, committed to at today's prices, which he may have to fulfill a year later when his costs have risen? And given the current situation, it's all too likely that the prices he pays for material, electricity, food and fuel will have risen, maybe even doubled, in a year.

Making that mistake put a major American gun manufacturer, (Hopkins and Allen), into bankruptcy during WW1.

(Full disclosure: I served a fifteen year sentence as a project manager for a capital equipment supplier to the Big 3. Planning budgets for work that would be done a year or two in the future was part of my job. This is therefor obvious to me, while it isn't to the layman.)

mr mom

04-09-2013, 08:00 PM

how many of you people out there have had a hobby of making things like bullets or reloading ??? then someone says make me some !!! then more want you to make more for others !!!! then its no longer a hobby !!! I know !!! and with kids and working from home making a lot of stuff for others . if you have to wait , you wait !!!!
if you don't like the price get something else ...
who started all this **** with ammo and other reloading stuff ??? I didn't vote for the guy !!!! did you ????

IllinoisCoyoteHunter

04-09-2013, 08:20 PM

We don't know ANY of the details of the price increase except that they did go up (which I have not even confirmed, BUT NOT calling the OP a liar!) Did CH4D have to increase their staff?? Pay higher premiums for health insurance for their employees?? Buy more machines to keep up with demand?? Did one of their machines break? We have no idea. It really isn't our business. My philosophy is really simple...If I think the price is too high I don't buy it. I know it can be frustrating, but it is what it is.

SheepDogAlpha

04-09-2013, 08:45 PM

While my original post was skinny with details of my considered variables. I had considered most of the points made in following posts. That is the reason for my closing sentence of "necessity vs greed". I hope that I am wrong and that more employees, more machinery, and quicker turn around times are the cause for the price increase. I didn't start this thread for anyone to get upset or start bickering with one another, but rather gain insight and opinion as we all have our own modes of thinking.

Utah Shooter

04-09-2013, 10:22 PM

Jeez. Sounds like some of you ought to get off this forum for a week or so.

waksupi

04-09-2013, 11:17 PM

For a reality check, take that set of dies to a local machinist, and get a price quote on how much it will cost him to duplicate them. I'll bet the price gets a lot more attractive, real quick.

toolz568

04-09-2013, 11:30 PM

Ch4d told me today they were no longer making swaging dies.

RobS

04-09-2013, 11:46 PM

Ch4d told me today they were no longer making swaging dies.

Should this be it............. problem solved it would appear.

JonB_in_Glencoe

04-09-2013, 11:51 PM

Ch4d told me today they were no longer making swaging dies.
That's interesting ??? in a strange way.
==============
regarding the topic of the OP, which I haven't commented on yet. Brian started this swaging thing by "upgrading" CH dies...I suspect CH sold very few of them until Brian started ordering them by the dozens. I also suspect CH had a decade worth of dust on many of these dies and the low price reflects that. NOW that they (CH) had to run a batch or two of these dies in today's cost, they probably finally decided to update there pricing to 2013 instead of 1998 or whatever. I'd be interested if they improved the "internal" parts quality? which is what Brian originally did when he started.
Good night,
Jon

Utah Shooter

04-10-2013, 12:16 AM

That's interesting ??? in a strange way.
==============
regarding the topic of the OP, which I haven't commented on yet. Brian started this swaging thing by "upgrading" CH dies...I suspect CH sold very few of them until Brian started ordering them by the dozens. I also suspect CH had a decade worth of dust on many of these dies and the low price reflects that. NOW that they (CH) had to run a batch or two of these dies in today's cost, they probably finally decided to update there pricing to 2013 instead of 1998 or whatever. I'd be interested if they improved the "internal" parts quality? which is what Brian originally did when he started.
Good night,
Jon

Thanks for the insight.... :kissarse:

aaronraad

04-10-2013, 03:17 AM

SheepDogAlpha that's pretty much the way the cookie crumbles.

In terms of CH4D not making swaging dies any longer, I doubt that very much, unless they have thrown out the capital equipment and tooling? More likely just not stocking swaging dies any longer.

BT Sniper and CH4D both need to stay financially viable, if US citizens want to have the option of buying something local. The bullet swaging and die making industry is littered with failed businesses and personal relationships/marriages. A custom made Hornady Hydraulic Form Die Kit costs $165-$185 and are no where near the surface finish and tolerances required for a bullet swage die. BT Sniper and CH4D would be doing us a diservice if they don't stay financially viable.

SquirrelHollow

04-10-2013, 04:01 AM

In terms of CH4D not making swaging dies any longer, I doubt that very much, unless they have thrown out the capital equipment and tooling? More likely just not stocking swaging dies any longer.

That's all it is.
After they started telling people that they would only make swage dies every few years, BT Sniper bought out all of the high-demand dies. Since they didn't plan to make them for a while, it simply became a matter of "we're not making them right now, and don't have any in stock."

Right now, BT Sniper has the market cornered (intentionally, or not). Complaints or concerns should be directed at BT for buying everything, and/or CH4D for not producing what their customers want (they've had hundreds of requests since selling out, but still maintain the "we're not going to make them for a while" attitude).

Reload3006

04-10-2013, 07:15 AM

Y'all know there are several other options besides BT and CH4D

newcastter

04-10-2013, 12:47 PM

You had to go and say that......here we go.
You have just devistated a few on this forum.

Y'all know there are several other options besides BT and CH4D

Nickle

04-10-2013, 04:48 PM

Well, some good things said here, and some naive things said.

First off, some perspective. I'm in the business, part time (more lately). I have been longer than I can remember, as I grew up in a gun shop (type 01/06). Been making ammo in some portion of the process or other for most of the last 50 years. Wasn't active in the middle years of that, other than my own stuff.

Now that isn't to brag, no sir. It is simply to state that I have the qualifications to know the business and what I'm talking about.

Most companies don't jack with their prices constantly. They review on an annual level and change as needed. When they move something from mainline manufacture (to stock) to making as orders come in, production costs also rise (setup time increases). I'll wager BOTH happened here.

As to BT's products, well, that's easy.

Look as his stuff and prices, then look at his competition's. I did recently, as I'm planning on getting set up to swage a few calibers.

I checked Corbin and a few others (including CH4D). Some I wasn't impressed with the quality. Some I just couldn't justify the cost (and time required to recoup my investment). Others were just too unsure as to delivery time frame.

Now, I've probably got more CH dies than the average reloader, and I'll tell you they're pretty good. Heard wonderful reviews over the years about their swaging equipment (yeah, I used to shoot NBRSA and IBS competitions too, pretty demanding stuff).

But, it pretty much boiled down to BT and Corbin. BT's equipment is said to better than Corbin's. It's definitely lower cost.

So, take a good guess where MY money is going to go.

Yeah, might buy some Corbin (where it makes good sense), but the bulk of my equipment will be from BT.

He's simply the better source. And, though a busy man, a far better seller (better service, folks).

newcastter

04-10-2013, 06:07 PM

See I told ya hahahaha.

Jailer

04-10-2013, 08:39 PM

What's with all the BT hate going on in the swaging section lately??? Be glad we actually have options.

I've got a set of BT's dies and they are great but I'd also LOVE to try a set of Dr Blackmon's 22's. Funding just doesn't allow it at the moment.

aaronraad

04-11-2013, 01:18 AM

In terms of CH4D not making swaging dies any longer, I doubt that very much, unless they have thrown out the capital equipment and tooling? More likely just not stocking swaging dies any longer.

The other obvious reason, the dimwit above left off is, if they lose the knowledge/people/skills!

Looks like SquirelHollow has the inside info.

BT Sniper

04-11-2013, 01:26 AM

I've been pretty busy manufacturing since.... well back to late last summer. I think as I am now close to finishing up a lot of these dies there will be a lot more customers receiving their new dies with plenty of good things to say, especially with the look and performance of my new "Black Ops" Nitride finished dies that are now my standard offer.

Newcaster will even have a chance to comment on my dies as I expect to have his and severial more BTSniper 40 cal dies ready very soon.

As for the statis of CH and their Swage dies........ here is what I know. Dave has told me that swage dies never accounted for more then 5-10% of their business. He would have just as soon not bothered with even offering the swage dies with all effort the swage dies requires on a production stand point. This of course was back when he was offering the 101 dies for $125. They have not hired any new help and are actually down to a four man team as I understand it. They haven't had a run of swage dies in a long time, and do not offically know when the next one will be. Yes their price is now listed at $290 for a set of their 101 series swage dies but their supply is severly limited. I don't know if they made any changes in their designs or plan to. I can still offer a %10 discount to anyone interested in any of their "in stock" products. As for the reason for their latest price increase well....... ????....... I don't know for sure but it was more then a bargin back in the days they sold for under $200 now they are more "realisticaly" priced regarding the amount of work they have to put into their designs IMOP. Heck, imigine if they no longer made any at all, the ones we have now may some day be collectables.

I did purchase a lot of their 40 cal dies and still have a few to offer. The rest of their dies I never was able to keep in stock either as they sold them out or I did. I guess you could say I bought them out of their 40 cal dies long ago but getting my hands on only 5-10 dies at a time in their other calibers I don't think ever acounted for or could be consider an attempt to corner the market. I probably could have sold more of them and would have been happy to do so but they quickly ran out so it was clear to me I better figure out how to make my own.

As for BT hate or excessive support.......well...... I think we have a great bunch of guys here with a great site with lots of knowldege to share on swaging. I think we will all be a lot happier when we all recieve our new dies, make a few bullets, get out and do some shooting, turn off the news, enjoy some better weather, etc. I'm sure with all the happenings in the country today we may all be a little on edge, stressed, broke, or all of the above, usually a day at the range does wonders for my mood.

As always I say good shooting and swage on!

Brian

Jeff Michel

04-11-2013, 03:27 AM

Well played!
Jeeeez, every time a price goes up it's gouging. The only situation where gouging can take place is when the seller has a monopoly.

Railroads gouged farmers in the 19th century. evilBay gouges. Hospitals gouge. (Yes, hospitals are often monopolies - they collude to prevent competition via licensing boards that they control).

If a seller has too many orders, he should raise prices until the order book balances his ability to produce. Who in his right mind will let a huge backlog build up, committed to at today's prices, which he may have to fulfill a year later when his costs have risen? And given the current situation, it's all too likely that the prices he pays for material, electricity, food and fuel will have risen, maybe even doubled, in a year.

Making that mistake put a major American gun manufacturer, (Hopkins and Allen), into bankruptcy during WW1.

(Full disclosure: I served a fifteen year sentence as a project manager for a capital equipment supplier to the Big 3. Planning budgets for work that would be done a year or two in the future was part of my job. This is therefor obvious to me, while it isn't to the layman.)

DukeInFlorida

04-11-2013, 06:46 AM

CH4D hadn't raised their prices in ages (YEARS!)

Their 101 and 105 style dies were such a small portion of their production, that I am guessing they didn't even keep an eye on those products. It wasn;t really until BT Sniper came along, and figured out a way to IMPROVE their dies that any real inventory started to move for them. Brian basically bought out every one of the popular sizes. He even announced that he was buying so much from them, that they made him an authorized dealer, and he started selling parts, dies, cannelure tools (anything that CH4D makes) at a discount.

And, still they didn't rush to replace inventory which Brian purchased from them. Again, their decision, probably because of "low sales" for that product.

When they seemed to have woken up, they might have done a current review of real manufacturing costs, tagged on their nominal regular markup, and adjusted the price to current manufacturing cost/profit levels.

So, CH4D's price...................... is the price!

I have no qualms with a manufacturer adjusting their price when they need to, and I think their price is a real and fair price, considering how long they went before reviewing it.

newcastter

04-11-2013, 08:20 AM

Now that is good to hear!

Newcaster will even have a chance to comment on my dies as I expect to have his and severial more BTSniper 40 cal dies ready very soon.

As for BT hate or excessive support.......well...... I think we have a great bunch of guys here with a great site with lots of knowldege to share on swaging. I think we will all be a lot happier when we all recieve our new dies, make a few bullets, get out and do some shooting, turn off the news, enjoy some better weather, etc. I'm sure with all the happenings in the country today we may all be a little on edge, stressed, broke, or all of the above, usually a day at the range does wonders for my mood.Brian

I do not believe there is any BT Hate or at least I hope.

Reload3006

04-11-2013, 08:52 AM

I was certainly not bashing BT or CH4D in anyway. I merely pointed out for those who seem to believe that there is a monopoly or market cornered by BT that there are alternatives. I do not own any of BT or CH4D's gear. I honestly dont have a dog in the fight. I own and use happily RCE and Blackmon gear. I decided to go a different route than a scabbed on ejector or hammer whooping my boolits out of the die. So I went the way I went. I however being a Machinist do not think that either BT or CH4D or Blackmon or RCE's prices are out of line as I know the Tooling expenses and time involved in making the dies. I would however have to agree with some of the commenters, that on this site especially site vendors are constantly being pushed instead of just talking about the process. I have no problem with someone suggesting a certain supplier of product but the overwhelming attitude on CastBoolits as a whole seems to be Push the site vendors and if you dont use them your "stupid" it certainly does not come from BT but the vast majority of his fans give him a black eye unintentionally.

IllinoisCoyoteHunter

04-11-2013, 09:20 AM

I agree, but I like to "shop locally". In other words, I will buy from site vendors any time I can, even if I have to pay a couple extra bucks. Having them stick around here (fairly exclusively) is worth something (to me).

Nickle

04-11-2013, 10:01 AM

Reload is right, and has the right attitude.

You know, when you appear to "worship" a particular business, you actually aren't helping them. At best, good buyers simply ignore your comments as overzealous. At worst, they start to suspect otherwise good reviews as biased. This usually happens to a vendor that is a member of the site.

So, make sure your comments don't appear overzealous. Don't shout down those that mention other vendors. You'll notice I didn't, and even mentioned the other vendor I'll probably buy from. I'll wager good money I end up with tooling from both of them, if it will work out that way. I buy from them because they're good, usually the best or good enough and a good price. That's it, nothing more.

newcastter

04-11-2013, 10:44 AM

I understood your post completely and thats why I jokingly said here we go.
No one on this thread has said anything bad on BT or anyone for that matter maybe a hint at CH, sure I was pissed too when I found out I could not get a set from them any more but thats my fault for waiting so long but they are not here to defend themselves.
I currently own Danr dies, have a set of BT's dies on order and a set of Blackmons dies on order.
I really dont have a biast to anyone but my own money. You are exactly right it is not BT in any way he is a great help in the forum and has been helpful via pm, but its the over zealous fans that annoy the rest of us.

I was certainly not bashing BT or CH4D in anyway. I merely pointed out for those who seem to believe that there is a monopoly or market cornered by BT that there are alternatives. I do not own any of BT or CH4D's gear. I honestly dont have a dog in the fight. I own and use happily RCE and Blackmon gear. I decided to go a different route than a scabbed on ejector or hammer whooping my boolits out of the die. So I went the way I went. I however being a Machinist do not think that either BT or CH4D or Blackmon or RCE's prices are out of line as I know the Tooling expenses and time involved in making the dies. I would however have to agree with some of the commenters, that on this site especially site vendors are constantly being pushed instead of just talking about the process. I have no problem with someone suggesting a certain supplier of product but the overwhelming attitude on CastBoolits as a whole seems to be Push the site vendors and if you dont use them your "stupid" it certainly does not come from BT but the vast majority of his fans give him a black eye unintentionally.

BT Sniper

04-11-2013, 11:22 AM

Yep! All good posts and I agree, I didn't really see or feel any strong comments against me or my products and everyone is certainly free to choose who to purchase from. I have been telling many potential customers that contact me that no matter who's dies they choose now days chances are they are going to be more then happy with their purchase.

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

30yrcaster

04-11-2013, 11:49 AM

It's good to have lots of options. Where one guy/company may have a loooong backlog, another may come along that doesn't. Good for us!!

I actually found a video of Blackmon's swage press. I couldn't believe it. It's an updated version of the Corbin Mity Mite & Silver presses from the 80's and 90's. The video mentioned he was selling them for $150 but that was 2011. I paid twice that in the 80's for mine. Looks like it does have the same limitations as mine using the 5/8" dies.

mold maker

04-11-2013, 02:01 PM

All the newcomers that produce an improved, or new product, that is better than what we are accustomed to, have the same problem. They are usually a one man show, with older manual equipment, and the desire to produce a perfect product. If they are successful, we overwhelm them with requests. All mfg processes take time, and doing a thousand, sometimes takes more than a thousand times as long. Along the way improvements are found which again stretches expected finish dates.
We are accustomed to buying off the shelf products that have a pipeline of inventory. The products we're speaking of here have no factory, no pipeline, and no on shelf inventory. Most of what we order, is still a raw material, that can be halfway around the world.
These guys are all guilty of expecting more of themselves than is humanly possible. They all make promises, on the expectation, of promised delivery dates from others. This seldom happens as expected, and even when it does, there are totally unforeseen difficulties. If they send stuff out for heat treatment, or outside work, it can come back totally screwed up, and have to be started from scratch.
There has been lots of criticism about these guys not making expected shipping dates. From those of us who order, expecting next week delivery, we are victims of our own greed. The days of "I want it, and I want it now", just because I money in hand, are over.
These guys are doing us a favor. They are taking time away from their families, and any other hobbies, including sleep, to make something available, for us. They could just as easy, have told us what they have done, and kept it for their personal use.
Because they offer a real improvement, and it's accepted with a ton of orders, overwhelms them. This is no reason to make unreal demands, of their time and sanity. It's easy for a person to make promises that, on paper look realistic. It's another thing altogether, to meet ALL those commitments on time.
Remember if it weren't something lots of us wanted, there would be a much shorter line, much less of a headache for them, and your mail box filled sooner.
At 71 I have less time to wait, but more patients, than ever before.
Slow down, and smell the roses, they will soon enough, just wither and be gone.

SquirrelHollow

04-12-2013, 02:01 AM

I did purchase a lot of their 40 cal dies and still have a few to offer. The rest of their dies I never was able to keep in stock either as they sold them out or I did. I guess you could say I bought them out of their 40 cal dies long ago but getting my hands on only 5-10 dies at a time in their other calibers I don't think ever acounted for or could be consider an attempt to corner the market. I probably could have sold more of them and would have been happy to do so but they quickly ran out so it was clear to me I better figure out how to make my own.

Just to clarify - That's how CH described the situation to me, the last two times I called to see if they even had a few parts on hand for particular dies.
Statements like, "Guy named Brian ... bought everything we had ... goes by "BT Sniper" ... resells them ... can find him on the castboolits forums ..."

As I said above, buying them out of certain dies may not have been intentional, but they still 'blame' you for it. ;)

BT Sniper

04-12-2013, 03:00 AM

No probem then..... I suppose to CH that is problably exactly how it looked. To bad they couldn't have produced even more for use all.

I never did mention what happened with their last run of 44 cal dies though. Somewhere I have a picture stored here on the computer. Even with the CNC machines as I understand they use problems still can arrise. They had to scrap the entire lot of 44 cal point form dies do to the meplat being off center or tilted from the rest of the bullet, or again I assume they did as I never saw any of them offered. It was shortly after that when the swage dies became a semi production item. I'm certainly not talking down of their dies, the dies bodies they have made in the past have allways worked very well for me and many customers, I have always said that their internial parts could use some improvments. I imagine an entire lot of point form dies that do not pass QC could put quite a damper on a production item that allready acounts for so very little of their revenue that they probably focused on the items that did make them money, like the 50 BMG dies and tooling they offer. They have told me this is where their "bread and butter" is. I suppose it makes sence.... Stick to selling what makes you the most money. Even though demand may be high for their swage dies right now I am certain the profit margin is considerably less then their reloading die sales.

It is busy for eveyone right now, I'm hopful they will catch up and be able to keep up with demand but long ago I knew I could not count my income based solely on their ability to fill demand, that is why I had to learn how to make these dies myself. We all have created a great intrest in any and all availble swage dies as well we should, making our own bullets is Awesome! Ask anyone that does!

Here is a pic of one of their 9mm dies that an individual sent me to fix. It is only a mild case where you can see the meplat is not square to the barring surface of the die, it tilts down and left in this pic. The 44s looked like they where atleast 10 degreees in addition to what you see here. No knocking their dies, it's just an example of the precision that is required when it comes to swage dies and how a run of these not caught in QC before heat treat could put a heck of a damper on supply and the motivation for them to make more apparently.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/th_flaw001-1.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/BTSniper/media/flaw001-1.jpg.html)

Here you can see it with the bullet turned so it now leans to the right
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/flaw002-1.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/BTSniper/media/flaw002-1.jpg.html)

I squared up the nose and opened the meplat slightly to solve any issues as can be seen in teh bullet on the left.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/christmasand9mm056.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/BTSniper/media/christmasand9mm056.jpg.html)

Good shooting and swage on!

BT