sacrilegious Flint LocK project

[nekshot]

I found a "cherrnut" tree here and after some good dandelion wine got this inspiration. The stock is now ready to go and the barrel is below. I will cut 80 percent of receiver off and use the rest. 54 cal 1x48 twist. Is there a good book or info site (correct stuff for a flint lock build)to keep me in the fold as I tend to wander in my ideas sometimes. Waksupi, if you was dead you would roll in your grave over this one! :D 66794

[fouronesix]

Good going so far. All you need to do is cut the barrel off just in front of the receiver or existing internal threads if this is off an inline. Then get a one piece tang/plug that is appropriate for the 54 cal. Carefully thread the plug to the bore for a good tight fit! File/flatten the side of the barrel for lock/pan fit - usually easier than fitting the lock/pan to the curved barrel. Inlet the barrel & tang into the stock. Inlet the lock for best position on the barrel flat, making sure the eventual touch hole is just forward of the plug face. Inlet the trigger. One step at a time- go slow and study what needs to be done for best function. No reason it won't work well!

[waksupi]

Oh-my-Gawd.... :shock:

[nekshot]

I do have a original tc flinter but right hand from early 70's , and so am I safe to use their vent hole placement with flash pan for my build? That gun fires 99 percent of time (1 percent is when deer is standing broadside in front) so I do trust their dimensions. I need all the help I can get on this one!

[DeanWinchester]

You gotta put a scope or even a red dot on it when you're done!!

[fouronesix]

Once you get the breech plug installed put a little scratch or punch mark on the outside of the barrel showing where the end face of the plug is. That just makes it easier as you work on inletting and assembly-- instead of having to constantly stick a rod in the bore to check where it is. Get the barrel with tang inletted into the stock. Inlet the lock so the center of the pan (front to back) is about 1/4" to 5/16" in front of the plug face mark (that will allow for easier drilling and installation of a liner). Install trigger and get everything working. Really, drilling the touch hole should be left for last so you can place it exactly in the right place relative to the pan.

[Whiterabbit]

I thought the HOLE was supposed to be in the back next to the breechplug face? The back of the liner is supposed to meet the breechplug face?

edit:

That gun fires 99 percent of time (1 percent is when deer is standing broadside in front)

this put a smile on my face. You forgot to mention that the deer doesn't get spooked right away, letting you pick, re-charge, re-fire, and flash the pan a second time. That time scares the deer. The other 198 shots are OK.

[fouronesix]

I thought the HOLE was supposed to be in the back next to the breechplug face? The back of the liner is supposed to meet the breechplug face?


Huh?

This is what I wrote in the previous post- "Inlet the lock so the center of the pan (front to back) is about 1/4" to 5/16" in front of the plug face mark (that will allow for easier drilling and installation of a liner)."

If you drill the pilot hole or center the liner hole exactly at the breech plug face, the rear half of the liner will "hit" the breech plug. By marking the spot of the breech plug face on the outside of the barrel then drill the center of the hole 1/4" to 5/16" in front of that mark, the breech plug face will not interfere with the liner. "In front of" means toward the muzzle. "In back of" means toward the breech.

[Whiterabbit]

Exactly.

Or, to make it more clear, I was under the impression that the touch hole was indeed just in front of the breech face, thus yes, the liner butting against the breech plug. Exactly what fouronesix recommended in post #2.

Then in post #6, fouronesix recommends putting the touch hole in fact 1/8" to 5/32" farther forward so the breech plug clears the breech plug.

That has a drastic effect on lock location when inlet-ing the lock. Thus the request for clarification.

is the HOLE supposed to be at the breechface, causing the LINER to "interfere" (potentially) with the breech plug? OR, is the entire liner supposed to *just* clear the breechface, resulting in a touch hole thats a bit forward of the breech face?

Really, its an honest question.

[waksupi]

I prefer the vent liner to skim the breech plug, actually cutting away a bit. This helps cut down on breech fouling. Place it too far forward, and you will be building up cement behind the vent. It took me quite awhile to learn this, and have a couple guns that breech foul after around 15 shots, requiring the breech face to be scraped, to return to top accuracy.

[Whiterabbit]

And do you drill with a standard drill bit then, ensuring the hole shaft is just a smidge deeper than the plug? Or do you use an end mill to drill after you've passed thorugh the barrel into the breech plug?

Also if you just drill, how do you prevent the bit from getting pushed by the breech plug, leaving you with an oval hole?

[nekshot]

I Love it, this better than gunsmithing school. You fellas are hitting the very issues that were bringing fear to my heart. Keep talking because my confidence is rising! Thank you gentlemen for the info!
nekshot

[fouronesix]

nekshot,
Good luck on getting everything put together with less than <.1" clearance... as in drilling the liner hole to "skin" the breech face. By setting the pan centered about 1/4"-5/16" forward of the breech face, you will have about 1/8" to play with laterally. You can try the near zero tolerance but you will also have to inlet the lock/pan to within that same tolerance. If not, then the touch hole is not going to be centered laterally in the pan. Or during the final drilling of the liner hole and if the bit engages the edge of the breech face it will want to wander forward and you'll end up with a loose or oblong hole. To prevent the possibility of the bit wandering if it engages the edge of the breech face, lock the barrel in a milling fixture or vise, use a mill and go slowly when drilling the hole. I haven't noticed a wit of difference between the touch hole or nipple flash channel emerging right at the breech face or 1/8" in front of it or even 1/4" in front of it. The only times I see ignition problems is when fouling builds up enough to clog the flash channel or when careless swabbing pushes a bunch of moist fouling down to the hole. Sorry, but I've never noticed much effect from fouling behind the flash channel in either a flat breech or patent breech design. Good luck!

[Whiterabbit]

should we be using a really short drill bit also?

waksupi did not cite ignition problems but rather accuracy ones.

(BTW, I'm asking and so interested because I have a future project I'm lining up ducks for, a homemade flint pistol, using a 50 cal barrel already breeched but not drilled yet. Just doing my due dilligence and research)

[DIRT Farmer]

Remember guys, Waksupi builds guns that have reputation for going off fast. For my use I want tap marks on the plug face and remember the touch hole liner does not protrude into the bore.
Many years ago there were various theorys about the proper touch hole placement in shotguns, some placing the touch hole to the front of the powder position. Not only did those guns foul the kicked badly for the load. The proper place is all the way down to the breech face unless you are building a Nock style breech but good luck on keeping that sucker clean.

[Hanshi]

Now this is one gun I'm anxious to see finished. Cool.




"5% Neanderthal, 95% Klingon and proud of it."

[Whiterabbit]

Remember guys, Waksupi builds guns that have reputation for going off fast. For my use I want tap marks on the plug face and remember the touch hole liner does not protrude into the bore.

Ok, so why don't we pull the breech then, drill and tap, the reinstall the breech plug then install the touch hole liner?

[KCSO]

In addition I polish the breech face to a mirror finish, the fouling won't stick as easy. I do the same to the pan so I can thumb out the fouling as I wipe the frizzen.

[waksupi]

For my use I want tap marks on the plug face and remember the touch hole liner does not protrude into the bore.



Yup yup yup.

Use a mill, or a good solid drill press with a vise. DO NOT try to freehand this job. Go slow, lots of lube, clear the bit often, and you shouldn't have any bit wander.

[waksupi]

Ok, so why don't we pull the breech then, drill and tap, the reinstall the breech plug then install the touch hole liner?

You could do that. Use a proper wrench for the breech plug.

[Whiterabbit]

But then I would have no tap marks on the breech face. So which is it? tap marks on the breech face most desirable, or clean and polished breech face most desirable?

Am I overthinking this?

[nekshot]

Here I sit all broken hearted listening to all this good info and I can't get the project completed I am on right now. I am stocking a percussion with that really rough bore barrel (1x32-50 cal) and last week the locust stock cracked over nite so I started a new piece of cherry and today I was so excited about your input I screwed up this stock as I was working wood and thinking of the flinters breech face! Darn I simply gotta settle down and think one thing at a time.

[Whiterabbit]

how'd you screw up your chernut stock?

[nekshot]

thank goodness it wasn't that piece of wood. I did make 2 cherrnuts in case I make a mistake. T his stock is a solid cherry that is full length but I wanted to slim the stock at front hand area (where they cut them for a hawken) and bring the ramrod out in the underside of barrel stock. I plunge routed for the ramrod the whole length so I must keep the stock full to end of barrel now. It simply is not what I had in mind. This gun does need the weight because I am hoping to use Idaho Rons heavy pb in the fast twist. As soon as this gun is done on to the sacrilegious flinter!

[Boogieman]

Unless you intend to "dry-ball" why put in a flash hole liner? It makes a place for rust to start & weakens the barrel. I have a Caywood tradegun & a 54 that I built with drilled holes coned on the outside they are just as fast as my lined one. Yes you can get enough 4fG through a drilled hole to push a dry ball out don't ask how I know. Don't trust a ML shooter who tells you he never dry balled he'll lie to you about other things too.

[pietro]

Well - Ye could always make it ino an underhammer flintlock, and give ya plenty 'o room for that red dot........................

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd284/romeoh2/Calderwood.jpg

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[waksupi]

Unless you intend to "dry-ball" why put in a flash hole liner? It makes a place for rust to start & weakens the barrel. I have a Caywood tradegun & a 54 that I built with drilled holes coned on the outside they are just as fast as my lined one. Yes you can get enough 4fG through a drilled hole to push a dry ball out don't ask how I know. Don't trust a ML shooter who tells you he never dry balled he'll lie to you about other things too.

I have never seen signs of rust in a properly installed vent liner. A bit of anti-seize on the treads is all that is required. I assure you, if you coned the outside of the barrel, you will eventually be putting in a vent liner, as the cone will erode away if you shoot much. The outside cone is also more prone to gathering moisture.

[DIRT Farmer]

I was trying to learn the, as I thought, the dark secrets of consistant and reliable ignition in a flinter, using a Pedersoli Brown Bess, with the touch hole just drilled in the side of the barrel. After a few years of less than stelliar results I was approched by a range officer who told me to remove the flint and load my gun. After loading the powder and wads I was directed to the blow out area where he opened the pan. The pan was tightly packed with ffg. I was instructed to clear it and take it to the armory and have a touch hole liner put in before bringing it to the line again. The touch hole was 1/8th inch or more. After repairs my ignition improved greatly, faster, and much more consistant and suprise my scores went up. I now replace the liner any time a problem devolops, they are cheaper than missed targets or deer.
I have a Jackie Brown (sorry Waksupi, he named it) canoe gun I won that has a cone in the side of the barrel, I doubt I will ever shoot it enought to have a liner put in it, but it will partily prime the pan with ffg.

[Boogieman]

Flint ignition can be improved greatly by putting a close fitting rod in your flash hole while loading. Remove it just before priming .This keeps a hole open into your main charge. The air coming out when you seat the ball or wads can push powder into the flash hole. That slows ignition. The flash hole is a window to let the fire in , not a fuse.

[Geraldo]

nekshot, I like how you think. There is still room for innovation in muzzleloaders! I'll second Pietro's idea to make it an underhammer.

[nekshot]

Underhammer flint? Wow, how do you keep primer powder in place, with felcro?

[Geraldo]

Underhammer flint? Wow, how do you keep primer powder in place, with felcro?

It has almost no time to fall when fired. There is some info out there on underhammer flintlock, mostly pistols or bench guns. While the cool factor would be high, I'm not sure you'd really want to do it on a hunting gun.

[Whiterabbit]

properly tuned flinter will fire upside down.

[pietro]

AND, the powder/pan is weather-protected, being underneath.............. :D




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[nekshot]

Was out of town a few days and was looking at this underhammer thing. I like it! I think a underhammer anything would look neat with this wood. I think I will stay with my original idea for this gun BUT I do have a second stock of cherrnut and a neat 16 gauge barrel laying around somewhere. I like this bottom thing very much, makes for a clean look!

[10 ga]

Sacrilegious to cut up a good inline when all you need is a length of monel pipe to make a flinter. 3/4" diameter was a favorite of the old guys for making "battery guns" and a 2" diameter makes a wonderful punt gun. I think I'll go over to the cannon forum. LOL
10 ga

[nekshot]

Thats funny 10 ga! I saw this inline with out the bolt, bore was not cleaned and alot of bubblish looking crust in it totally covering the rifling and I got it for 30.00 bucks. The bore cleaned up and is perfect so I have a like new inline stock which I don't need, a nice adjustable trigger, sights and a nice 54 cal barrel. All I need is the lock and trigger for the flint. Will decide on the sights after gun is build.

[Three Bears]

nekshot..... did you finish this rifle? any picture or comments as to how it shot?