load for 1895 Marlin in .45-70

[Rich Cronk]

I have been working up loads for my Marlin "cowboy" in .45-70. I have noticed that there is somewhat of a shortage of available load data for heavy WFN cast lead bullets, so I decided to share what I am doing with Doc Holiday's 425 grain "Tombstone's". I shot a five shot group this morning with 41 grains of IMR-3031 behind a 425 grain WFN hard cast. Next time out, I will likely try 42 grains of IMR-3031 because I want to shoot these bullets at around 1400 fps.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/cronkcalls/DSCF1768_zpsfa46b1b0.jpg

[finstr]

Hey this is excellent! Thanks for the info Rich. I have a 1895 Marlin chambered in a 450 that I reproduce 45-70 loads in just for 'nostalgia' purposes.

Hey are you the same Rich Cronk that makes the really nice coyote howlers? If so they are truly a work of art!

[btroj]

Try that bullet with 24 gr or so of 2400. It will be around 1350 to 1400 and should shoot well. A filler is a good thing, I use a bit of Dacron. Don't pack iron top of the powder, I just get it ispnside the case trans the bullets moves it into place.

The filler gains 50 to 100 fps

[Rich Cronk]

Hey this is excellent! Thanks for the info Rich. I have a 1895 Marlin chambered in a 450 that I reproduce 45-70 loads in just for 'nostalgia' purposes.

Hey are you the same Rich Cronk that makes the really nice coyote howlers? If so they are truly a work of art!
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Yep, ya caught me! You caught the Tator. Thanks for the kind words regarding my howlers. ;-)

[Rich Cronk]

btroj,

I appreciate your offer, but I am trying to stay away from fillers. ;)

[btroj]

Even without a filler the load shoots great. I don't use the filler much of the time, too lazy to add it.

The filler makes for a slightly more consistant load but I have shot too many sub 2 inch 5 shot groups at 100 to decide that fillers are really required.

[RickinTN]

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Yep, ya caught me! You caught the Tator. Thanks for the kind words regarding my howlers. ;-)

Do I recall from Council Bluffs, Iowa?? Or around those parts?

[Rich Cronk]

Do I recall from Council Bluffs, Iowa?? Or around those parts?
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I am still right here in Council Bluffs, and coffee is always on at Cronk's. :D

[RickinTN]

Good to see you here! I remember runnin' into you at one of the predator huntin' sites, but don't remember which one.

I'm thinking with that 45-70 load you have, if you could get the coyotes to cooperate, you could get several with one shot and stack-em like cord wood!

Take care,
Rick

[Rich Cronk]

Good to see you here! I remember runnin' into you at one of the predator huntin' sites, but don't remember which one.

I'm thinking with that 45-70 load you have, if you could get the coyotes to cooperate, you could get several with one shot and stack-em like cord wood!

Take care,
Rick
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Rick,
You are right of course, but around here (and everywhere else I have hunted) I have to make sure there is a good back stop to catch the bullets. I place my target stand in front of a terrace here in Iowa. These heavy bullets would shoot through a house and three or four cows ya know.

[btroj]

Heck, I am just across the river and the correct side.
I am in Bellevue.

Try some 2400, it works very well.

[pipehand]

btroj is right about the 2400. I'm using a 425 gr LFN in my Guide Gun and getting 1330+/- fps with 25.3 grains and no filler. I do believe you'll like it.

[Rich Cronk]

btroj is right about the 2400. I'm using a 425 gr LFN in my Guide Gun and getting 1330+/- fps with 25.3 grains and no filler. I do believe you'll like it.
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There is a powder shortage now, remember? Stay tuned to this station and you will soon see 1400 fps with IMR-3031. ;-) Hey, how much powder residue are you guys seeing in the bore after five rounds with the 2400 loads?

[Iowa Fox]

Nice looking group Rich. How is the recoil with that load in your cowboy? I have been shooting pretty much one load in my 1895 CB. 13 grains of Unique with a very old mold 456192 sized to 460 with no filler. I also use it in my 24" Encore. Recoil is about the same in both rifles and groups look like yours except they are more verticle than horizonatal. I'm not sure how fast they are going but at my age my shoulder says fast enough.

[Rich Cronk]

Nice looking group Rich. How is the recoil with that load in your cowboy? I have been shooting pretty much one load in my 1895 CB. 13 grains of Unique with a very old mold 456192 sized to 460 with no filler. I also use it in my 24" Encore. Recoil is about the same in both rifles and groups look like yours except they are more verticle than horizonatal. I'm not sure how fast they are going but at my age my shoulder says fast enough.
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The recoil is stiff, but not uncomfortable. The horizontal spread in that group was poor trigger control on my part. The trigger has pretty hard pull for bench work. I use the words "bench work" loosely. I simply drape myself over the hood of my truck and rest the rifle on bags. I have a "sissy" pad coming from the PAST company, and my 525 grain Pile Driver's from Beartooth are due to arrive tomorrow. I don't plan to hunt Buffalo or Grizzly bear, so why am I doing this? An old Grandpa's crazy idea's is all I can come up with. I have ten of those one gallon milk jugs saved up, and my 22 year old Grand Daughter has agreed to video me as I line up ten or twelve of those jugs full of water and shoot through em. That will make a good You Tube feature. Oh yes, I have five rounds loaded up with 42 grains of IMR-3031 behind those 425 grain Tombstone's, so stay tuned to this channel and you will soon see the five shot group.

[pipehand]

Rich, get more milk jugs. My 425 grain at 1330 hit the 14th one. Beautiful straight line penetration.

[Rich Cronk]

Rich, get more milk jugs. My 425 grain at 1330 hit the 14th one. Beautiful straight line penetration.
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Now THAT is good information right there! I will line up 15 of those jugs then, thanks. :D

[btroj]

I don't see any real powder fouling after using 24 of 2400. I don't clean after each outing and I can easily get hundreds of rounds between cleanings. Mi usually decide to take the rifle down, clean it all up, and reassemble before hunting season. So yes, it might get cleaned once or twice a year even though I many shoot 3-500 rounds out of it in a year.

I don't know the situation right now but about 6 weeks ago I go an 8 pounder of 2400 at Guns Unlimited for 109 bucks. They had a fair bit of powder on hand.

I will say that a 420 grain flat nose doing 1400 fps or so is a penetrating machine. Sould be great on deer. I pushed mine to 1650 for a couple of black bears but I don't know that was really necessary.

[Rich Cronk]

Well here is today's result with 42 grains of IMR-3031.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/cronkcalls/DSCF1769_zps55cfe8f0.jpg

[RickinTN]

Sure can't argue with groups like that! My guess is that 43.3 grs. will put you right on top of 1400fps. Should take care of any vermin in the garden, like buffalo!:-?

[Rich Cronk]

Sure can't argue with groups like that! My guess is that 43.3 grs. will put you right on top of 1400fps. Should take care of any vermin in the garden, like buffalo!:-?
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Well Rick, I'm sneaking up on the 1400 fps now. I have six cartridges loaded with 42.5 grains. [smilie=w:

[Jailer]

Try some IMR 4198 if you have some. It's been producing the most consistent and accurate results for me with and without filler in my SBL with my 405gr WFN.

Of course what you have going there seems to be working quite well for you, I'd be happy with groups like that. What distance were they shot at?

[Rich Cronk]

Try some IMR 4198 if you have some. It's been producing the most consistent and accurate results for me with and without filler in my SBL with my 405gr WFN.

Of course what you have going there seems to be working quite well for you, I'd be happy with groups like that. What distance were they shot at?
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I am shooting the groups at fifty yards. When I settle on a load, then I will move back to 100 yards. It is not likely that I will be switching powders now that I have two of the old standby powders (IMR-4895 and IMR-3031) working for me. I am still new to shooting lead bullets and was worried about the powder residue in the bore. After talking to some fellows who have been doing this for a long time, I have learned that the residue happens with a lot of powders. I have been advised to not worry about the residue because it does no harm. Since it all pushes out pretty easy with one dry patch, I guess it is no big deal. Right now I need to save four more one gallon jugs so that I can fill them with water and shoot the buggers. [smilie=w:

[warboar_21]

Not to hijack the thread, but is the 2400 data for a Marlin only load? Or is it a load that could be shot from say a Rossi Rio Grande? I have 2 pounds of 2400 on hand and some 450gr bullets that are waiting to be loaded. I am not looking for something that is max pressure loads but something that is more mid range loading.

Thanks

[btroj]

The Rio Grande should handle that load fine. For a 450 I would back down to 21 or so and work up. If using a filler then go to 20 and start there. The filler will make it go faster for a given charge. If you have a Chrony increase charge til around 1350 to 1400 and stop. Accuracy should be fine and it will shoot through anything needing shot through.

[69papatango]

I must be a wuss, I loaded my new guide gun last summer at 36gr of IMR-4198 behind 430gr pill. I dont know what the FPS is but my shoulder could only handle about 12 with just a Tee-shirt.

[Rich Cronk]

I must be a wuss, I loaded my new guide gun last summer at 36gr of IMR-4198 behind 430gr pill. I dont know what the FPS is but my shoulder could only handle about 12 with just a Tee-shirt.
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You missed that gopher 12 times? I think maybe you spooked him a bit. [smilie=2:

[warboar_21]

The Rio Grande should handle that load fine. For a 450 I would back down to 21 or so and work up. If using a filler then go to 20 and start there. The filler will make it go faster for a given charge. If you have a Chrony increase charge til around 1350 to 1400 and stop. Accuracy should be fine and it will shoot through anything needing shot through.

Thank you sir.

[white eagle]

Hey this is excellent! Thanks for the info Rich. I have a 1895 Marlin chambered in a 450 that I reproduce 45-70 loads in just for 'nostalgia' purposes.

Hey are you the same Rich Cronk that makes the really nice coyote howlers? If so they are truly a work of art!

Not only howlers but you should check out some of his Killer calls as well
I have been all over the board with 3031 some loads are 45 grains and some stiffer ones are between 54-56 these is with 400 gr boolits though
you may also want to try RL/7 if you get a chance
Rich send me a P.M with your address and I will send you some boolits for you to try

[RickinTN]

I'm anxious to see the 42.5 gr results. I like pictures!:)

[Rich Cronk]

I'm anxious to see the 42.5 gr results. I like pictures!:)
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We missed the big hail storm last night, but we got enough rain to make the fields turn to mud. We needed the rain but it shut off my load testing for awhile.

[RickinTN]

I understand Rapid City got about 16" of snow last night. They're not far from you, at least from my perspective. I'll be patiently watching for the results when things dry a bit for you.

[btroj]

Rapid City is a long way from CB, Iowa. Good days drive.

[RickinTN]

Rapid City is a long way from CB, Iowa. Good days drive.

Oh, I know. It's about a 3-days drive for me. When I get to the west side of Iowa I think I'm almost there.

[69papatango]

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You missed that gopher 12 times? I think maybe you spooked him a bit. [smilie=2:

Naw ....Took it out the for the first time and was happy to get it on paper 1.5" @ 50yds , although a bit low at first. I need to fine tune it when weather gets nicer and try out my .460 Hammer mold :-)

[Rich Cronk]

Naw ....Took it out the for the first time and was happy to get it on paper 1.5" @ 50yds , although a bit low at first. I need to fine tune it when weather gets nicer and try out my .460 Hammer mold :-)
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It sounds like your bullets are shooting well, and I am betting that you could shoot clean through a ground squirrel iffen you can get close enough. Never mind me, I'm just joshing ya. I plan to shoot from 100 yards on my next time out. Wish me luck. ;)

[pull the trigger]

This is great I have some 3031 and wanted to try it, thanks!

[Rich Cronk]

Guy's,
I have more test loads ready to go just as soon as the fields dry up enough for me to drive out there. As you know, a man needs to be sure he has a good back stop when shooting the mighty .45-70. I use terrace's around here, and sometimes a nice steep hillside for my bullet stopper. I have a few rounds loaded with 42&1/2 grains of IMR-3031 and a few with 43 grains behind a Holliday 430 grainer. I also have about 14 or 15 one gallon jugs saved up. I want to make a video of a 430 grain Doc Holiday 430 grain Tombstone bullet causing total devistation of those milk jugs full of water. Keep your eye on this thread for further updates, and please pray for a bit of sunshine for western Iowa. Cronk has .45-70 fever.

[RickinTN]

:popcorn:

[Rich Cronk]

Well I finally got out to shoot a little bit. I tried a penetration test on 13 one gallon jugs filled with water. I didn't get lined up just right and my bullet steadily drifted to the right, and exited out the right rear of jug #8. My Grand daughter wanted to shoot the remaining five jugs. We had a zombie target behind the last jug. Yep, she killed it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrIGWQkegkw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29Zl1pUwJn8

[Rich Cronk]

The above loads had 43 grains of IMR-3031 behind them. I figure the 430 grain Holiday bullets are moving at about 1400 fps with that load. I now have some 410 grain gas checked bullets from White Eagle that I want to try. Just this morning, I spliced a 2"x6" board to a 2"x8" pine board, for a total of 9&1/2 feet of board to set water jugs on. We are going to have some fun this spring and summer. The 1895 Marlin in .45-70 is addictive. [smilie=w: Oh, and I found some Reloder #7 to try also, but I want to use up more of my old IMR-4895 first. Decisions, decisions.